California Lawmakers Pass 'Affirmative Consent' Sexual Assault Bill

originally posted by: gatorboi117
I detest rape. The idea of rape horrifies me. Rapist are the worst of the worst.

Pretext done. I have two main questions yet to be answered:

1. What if both parties are equally intoxicated? Can blame rest with any one party at that point?

2. Why do we hold people accountable for their actions while drunk, unless sex is involved? Whether it is driving, being in public, saying things, hitting people, etc. Why is it even the things that DON'T hurt someone else (urinating in public, being drunk in public, etc.) will land someone in jail, but if you're drunk you suddenly can't be held accountable for your decisions if they involve sex?

Just asking questions as respectfully as possible. Please do not attack me.

I stand with you man. This is a slippery slope and grounds for a lawsuit. I have gotten into several an argument with my girlfriend on the topic of rape about forcible vs. non forced rape. When a woman gets drunk at a party and goes home with a man, has sex with him, then regrets it the next day, in my opinion, it does not and should not constitute rape (unless there is physical force, such as striking her, pinning her down, etc.) You would imagine if there was no consent there would be vaginal trauma. If these conditions cannot be met, I don't believe there should be a rape case had.

Don't get me wrong, if a woman goes to a party or gathering and wakes up at someones house the next morning and she only had 2 beers, she was obviously drugged, and the offender needs to be lined up on a wall and shot. I don't like though that a man's life can be turned upside down at the simple accusation of a woman. Due to the nature of short sightedness in today's society, as soon as someone hears a man is/was accused of rape, their mind is made up. Then when the man is quietly absconded, it is not covered, and that person is forever a rapist in the eyes of the masses.

I work at a University of California. As such I know individuals of college age.
I work in the performing arts, (which from Sexual harassment training on the professional level); kind of hits into a grey area, as what is topical becomes relevant plays.

Don't get me wrong we all agree no means no, and inappropriate touching is inappropriate.

But at what point is the "assault" threshold? Is it in talk, or deed, or consent, or recorded consent?

My self (male) and my supervisor (female) have had opportunity to listen to concerns from both sexes in our students. Not one has been proven to be assault nor harassment.

There is a whole culture that was not there when I was in school. Or even 7 years ago.
I'm at a loss for how to move forward. Policy is to report anything. But reporting someone is complaining because they were told they "looked pretty today" is a waste of so many people's time.

a reply to: chuck258

Women will get "vaginal trauma" from consensual sex. Part of the difficulty in the overall situation of consensual sex later deemed rape.

a reply to: gatorboi117

Maybe the thinking behind it is sort of like having to be of sound mind for a contract to be binding plus the fact that other activities such as Driving have the rules already set before the drinking occurs. For example:

If you drink and drive you're still responsible because you know not to do that before you drink. The rules are set so there is no excuse as to you not being aware of them. But sex with someone is a decision agreed upon at whatever moment the decision is made.

I think it's maybe viewed the same as if someone told you that they'd take you on a trip around the world for example. If they say it sober then the chances are pretty good that you can trust their word, but if they're drunk you'd be foolish to trust that they'll actually follow through with it when sober. In other words Drunk people say all sorts of stupid stuff while drinking that should be carefully verified before you trust it as fact if you are the other party involved.

It's not so much that we totally excuse someone for what they do or say exactly. It's just that anyone who tries to claim that an agreement is valid while one of the parties is intoxicated is a weak argument since everyone knows people act in ways they may not normally act. So greater caution should always be taken in those situations.

Now, in your same example, it would be interesting to see what would happen if a woman accused a man of rape after sex but actually did consent before but she also actually signed some kind of document that was literally a Sexual Consent Form. Not sure what would happen then.

Also, consider that it's not quite that easy in today's world to pull of such a false claim. Law Enforcement is aware of such possibilities now too and have things like "Rape Kit's" which women must have done by medical staff to properly verify such claims. Now how reliable they are and what all is involved I don't know. Maybe someone with more experience in such areas could chime in.

That's just my 2 cents and completely uninformed opinion though.

Another thing to keep in mind is that while such examples can and have happened, they aren't something that is all that common. The belief that women use Rape as some excuse that they just willy nilly toss around like it's no big deal is a myth born out of male fear and ego. The process that a women has to go through in making such a claim and the exposure and attention that comes with it isn't exactly a nice experience. So to say that anyone would choose to go though that without being serious about it is certainly questionable.

Not that it couldn't happen. It could be done intentionally in fact as a type of revenge tactic even against someone. But once again, it would take someone very determined and willing to put themselves though a lot to actually do something like that.

So with that in mind, I think it's generally considered that if someone makes the accusation of being raped, they are serious about it and it's not something they just decided to do without honestly considering what all is included by making such a claim.

a reply to: onequestion

This bill won't do a damn thing. Just another waste of time.

a reply to: Snarl

lol that could lead to lawsuits..."she promised sex...look at this contract..."

being sued for having a headache....for a whole month

Isn't there an app for this by now?

So their solution to sexual assault is make it easier to be classified as a sex offender? Drunk sex is now assault? California is stuck on stupid. Who votes for these people? I wish they would secede already.