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Putin warns Ukraine against implementing EU deal -letter

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posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I was asking you for proof, don`t turn it around on me now.

So instead of providing me with proof, you try and dodge it by turning it around on me.

You know the deal with me, first you do your end of the barging before you get mine.




posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


Crimea was a great deal autonomous and because of right wing Ukrainians intimidating Crimeans it was actual needed to have fair elections. But you`re not for honest elections, you`re more for illegal presidencies.


These are not right wing Ukrainians, they are Russian troops intimidating Ukrainian citizens in Crimea:



You are the one who favors despots like Putin. I'll bet you're keen on Kim Jung Eun, too.


How many citizens does the Eastern Ukraine have, more than enough to get volunteers for the Militia. Especially because Junta was doing war crimes.


The militia leaders are known to be Russians. Here is one of them:



Most Ukrainians just want to be left alone, that is why most of the "volunteers" come from Russia.


Junta was the one who attacked it`s own citizens, how twisted can you make things ?


You mean the fascist junta in Donetsk? Agreed.


Russians know sanctions has been forced on them, so they will deal with it much more easily, and prices are only a few % higher as normal 4.5/5 % inflation...no biggie !


No biggy? The rate of inflation has nearly doubled that since Russia invaded Ukraine:



www.tradingeconomics.com...


Ukrainian bailout to cost $100 billion — American analyst

Source


Your source is quoting an American Libertarian, who has political reasons to inflate his estimate. A hundred billion would be a bargain if it brings stability to Europe, and reduces Western Europe's reliance on Russian gas. (Putin seized Ukrainian coastline to maintain Russia's monopoly.)


So US is committing a crime ?


It did when it first invaded Iraq, just as it is a crime that Russia invaded Ukraine.


And another one ?


Arming Syrian rebels is worse than a crime,it is a blunder!



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




I was asking you for proof, don`t turn it around on me now.


What proof do you want?

Proof that the vote was a fraud...been done.

Proof that the final percentage reported by Russia is wrong...been done.

Proof that you admitted that citizens came from outside Crimea to vote...been done by you yourself.



So instead of providing me with proof, you try and dodge it by turning it around on me.


Nobody turned anything around on you as readily admitted that there was fraud by having people outside of Crimea voting for Crimea and it's separation from Ukraine, that's proof of fraud in any country, language or well planet.




You know the deal with me, first you do your end of the barging before you get mine.


Yes, I do as it is one where you constantly provide what you consider evidence yet you don't provide sources.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:52 AM
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a reply to: DJW001




Arming Syrian rebels is worse than a crime,it is a blunder!


Don't you love it when they bring in every other conflict that happens in the world as though it has some kind of bearing on the conflict in Ukraine?

The fallback argument...because something happened elsewhere it has to be happening in Ukraine.
edit on 26-9-2014 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: DJW001




they are Russian troops intimidating Ukrainian citizens in Crimea:


Nice lie as usual DJW001 got plenty of my sources with pictures from Crimea showing a different story. Oh i am sure they are were Russian troops intimidating Ukrainian citizens in Crimea which that isn't the case, its clear you and your pals have being using McCain's Meme talking points on Ukraine.





Your source is quoting an, who has political reasons to inflate his estimate.

This is hilarious your actually attacking the source for being an American Libertarian?


Do you even read the articles or not?




The standoff with the government forces isn’t just about warfare for the self-defense forces, but a humanitarian operation as well, the leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic stressed. “One of our main goals is to push the enemy away from the big cities, denying him the opportunity to shell from all existing weapons the densely populated neighborhoods of large cities where there are hundreds of thousands of people – women, the elderly, children – reside,” he explained.



Nice propaganda with that image, i have known your types.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter


Nice lie as usual DJW001 got plenty of my sources with pictures from Crimea showing a different story. Oh i am sure they are were Russian troops intimidating Ukrainian citizens in Crimea which that isn't the case, its clear you and your pals have being using McCain's Meme talking points on Ukraine.


Are you claiming the photographs of Russian soldiers with weapons at the ready in the streets of Crimea are fake? Prove it.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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Russia threatens to shut off gas to Europe after it was funneled back to Ukraine


Geo-politics and national alliances can often make nation states do things that often backfire, and potentially bring disaster to their own peoples and economies. Poland discovered this recently when Russia cut shipments of natural gas to the Eastern European power after it was determined that they Poles were re-routing some of this gas back to Ukraine, who is currently under sanctions from Russia for both political reasons and non-payment of prior contracts.

Yet on Sept. 25, it appears that other members of the European Union (EU) failed to learn from this lesson and were also caught re-routing gas to Ukraine as part of their ongoing proxy war in the Eurasian state through their alliance with the U.S.. And in a quick response to this discovery, Russian energy minister Alexander Novak made it clear that these actions being done by EU member states were intolerable, and that Russia would respond to further incidents by threatening Europe with gas supply disruptions if the EU continues to re-export Russian gas to Ukraine.


click link for remainder of article..


[Nation A buys an item from Nation B. Nation A sells that item to Nation C. Why is nation B involved?
edit on 26-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Certain items can have a clause of no-reselling without permission of the original seller. Arms and weapons bought and sold between nations are one example. However, conditions can be put forth on any item in the transaction.




posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Xcathdra

Certain items can have a clause of no-reselling without permission of the original seller. Arms and weapons bought and sold between nations are one example. However, conditions can be put forth on any item in the transaction.



There was nothing in the Russian - EU contracts that would prevent them from selling to Ukraine.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't know about contracts that were signed or the modifications that can be made.

But bottomline is, if Kiev owes Moscow $5B in debts then they have to make certain things happen to have a smooth flow of gas for winter heating.

No vendor will keep on piling debts like that and not throw punches in air to recoup them.

Worst would in if in the first week of November, the cease fire is broken and Kiev is in cold. Word is rebels are very interested in Mariupol and then going west towards Crimea.

Junta does not understand and I will repeat again here..............

Nations should NOT mess with USA anywhere in the world.
Nations should NOT mess with Russia in its neighborhood.

Btw, west is openly providing body armor, medical kits and dry meals to Junta forces. Russia should also openly provide these to rebels. Russia is covertly providing them with lots more like tanks, RPGs, artillery etc. but there are many things its can provide openly, in the name of reducing causalities...........even in the warfare type scenario.




posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 09:28 PM
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a reply to: victor7

Victor: for the record: you are sincere and make excellent points. We disagree, but I respect you. I feel I need to say this because there is a great deal of hatred masking itself as opinion, if you know what I mean....



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: victor7

Russia has been providing those things to rebels, in addition to heavy military equipment and manpower. Something the west should be doing for Ukraine to counter Russia.

Secondly, and I cannot stress this enough. The more you and others cling to this "Russian neighborhood" bs, the more disappointed you are going to be.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation and is not beholden to any nation. Russia does not own nor control Ukraine and to assume it should be able to just because it shares a border is naïve. It also opens the door for the reverse argument, which is something you and others would throw a fit over if the reverse occurred to Russia.

As for how much Ukraine owes Russia, I get they want to get paid. With that said the Ukraine government has already stated their total lost in Crimea exceeds $20 Billion dollars. That does not include the 2-3 billion dollar loss in the gas supplies that Ukraine paid for that was lost in Crimea.

Doing the math Russia owes Ukraine, not the other way around.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 12:15 AM
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www.businessinsider.com...

Ukraine Is On The Brink Of Total Economic Collapse

To add to that, by the end of October, around 2 million Russian Active Military Reserves will be ready........after their 3 months "modern weapons training".

German party AfD is gaining strength which wants weak economies like Greece, Spain, Portugal to leave the EU. Wonder what would be the chances of Ukraine in comparison.

Junta has blown up big time, so has CIA and cookie lady Nuland and her boss Kerry. Big chunk the calculations of the White House and Pentagon have been reversed.

To that I conclude that it is wise for nations, including the US, to not mess with Russia in its neighborhood.

US is in no position to send troops and machines to Ukraine. Its hands are full in Afghanistan and ISIS. Soon 13,000 troops will be in Iraq to solve the IS problem. Ukraine did not scare me but ISIS got my hair raising. At last Obama is focusing in the right place.




posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: victor7

The article supports what we have been telling you for some time now. The current economic system in Ukraine is latched to Russia. There was a reason they wanted to sign deals with the EU, which was to get out from under that failing position Russia created.

Even Yanukovych recognized this and was prepared to move that way until Russia threw its temper tantrum. Even the latest agreement that was signed has pissed Russia off.

Why?

Because it will force Russia to actually compete with products from the EU. It removes the defacto control Russia had over Ukraines economy. Had the Russian economic model worked, the Soviet Union would not have collapsed.


Look at it this way -
Supposing you are right about Ukraine and the economic system of the west collapsing, which I don't believe will occur, what will Russia do then?

If those countries cant afford Russian prices, where will Russia find a replacement?

Do you get it now? Russia is cutting off its own nose to spite its face.


edit on 27-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 12:22 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Russia gave Ukraine $200B worth of subsidies in the last 23 odd years. When relations soured, Russia exercised its options and retook Crimea along with its few asset here and there. Accounts balanced !!

Russia owes Ukraine nothing. Instead Kiev Junta should be thrown into the war crime related prosecutions chambers.............from common Ukrops soldiers to all the way to Porky Poro to be hung by the balls for REPEATEDLY shelling the civilians and other criminal acts which are coming to knowledge slowly.



edit on 27-9-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: victor7

Russia has stated its dollar amount on what Ukraine owes. It was not 200 billion. It was the 5 billion amount, which can be deducted from the 20+ billion Russia owes Ukraine for Crimea.

Nice try though.. trying to change your augment based on irrelevant information.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 12:40 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You implied that the not voting of Ukrainians and Tartars was a proof of fraudulence while it was just because they knew it didn`t matter.

But when they choose not to vote it`s not fraudulence...only if everyone has to vote and is obligate to do so (mandatory) it can act as proof. So after implying it, I asked you to come up with the proof about it.

After claiming it, you should come up with proof or just say your were BSing ?

That`s the only thing you should answer instead of weaseling yourself out of it by asking other questions.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 12:52 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Why dont you go back and read what i posted?
edit on 27-9-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 12:55 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Nice try but Ukraine OWES its Gas payments to Russia. Without them paying it well they will be cold this winter which they will.




Russia owes Ukraine for Crimea.

The majority of the population in Crimea are 98% ethnic eastern Slavics.



posted on Sep, 27 2014 @ 01:09 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Russia has an inflation target of 4.5/5 %, so it is not that much above it. You`re just wanting to make it look like it worse as it is. Russian people will just deal with it. They know Russia would be ending up just like Libya, Syria and Ukraine if the Kremlin acted differently, so it`s not that of a big deal to them.

US is bombing a sovereign nation right now.

"A blunder is worse than a crime"...I`m looking forward for the courthouses to start prosecuting people for blunders...with all the blunders you have been making it`s going to be life in prison for you...LMAO !

So you`re now saying it was about Russia getting blocked from delivering gas to the EU...jail time !

Yes Donetsk citizens attacked Kiev...jail time !



It did when it first invaded Iraq, just as it is a crime that Russia invaded Ukraine.

Proof or life in prison !

Like Russia needed to help out...

This was what the Separatists were up against, ROFL ! :

Semen Semenchenko (Dumbass battalion commander) takes off mask

Link

edit on 27-9-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)







 
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