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You have all been duped.

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posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 09:19 PM
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Some of you are missing the very obvious here....a halo does not have a top a bottom, widows or a glow at the bottom....just a roundish glow...as an aura. Why would painters paint a "flying machine" in a period of time when there were no flying machines...the idea, the thought, must of come from somewhere and must of been reported as there are many different painters that incorporated these into their painting.

[edit on 12/7/2004 by LadyV]




posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 09:23 PM
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Lol LadyV, van goghs models didnt have square heads either im sure!



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by instar
Lol LadyV, van goghs models didnt have square heads either im sure!


Hey...instar LOL It's pretty easy to imagine a square head... Van Gogh was born in 1869....these other painters were painting UFO's, no too easy to just dream up in the 13th, 14th, 15th century...you don't see a differance there...



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 09:54 PM
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I didn't say i didn't beleive these people painted what they saw. But its a rather bold assumption to say "they were painting ufo's" (unless you means literally unidentified flying objects, in which case Im sure they were. However lets not assume these unidentified objects they were painting, were nesseserily Alien spacecraft. For instance, that bloke and dog may have been witnessing a meteor? I know, it dosent show a burning tail, again we go back to interpratation, ie van goghs square heads! lol
Personally im sure its very likley that folk were seeing unknowns in the sky ,hundreds, perhaps thousands of years ago. I simply dont assume to know, without doubt, they were alien craft. The further you go back, the simpler and more superstitious and fearful the people (note: I dont say dishonest) again ,human interpretation.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 09:59 PM
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I believe your lack of proof only validates that you are duped.
We as humans have an ego. We would love to believe that we are the only ones to be here. With the universe so vast and seemingly never ending, how can you believe that we could be the only ones.
Even if there is a "high power" at be, would you not think that he/she would make more than just our race? Being all-knowing, all-seeing, and all that jazz one could simply have to understand that it woul make more than our life. Perhaps by making it so that each "race" of beings had it's own solar system. Seeing who would better use the resorces set before them. We have failed. These other lifes can travel through space with an allarming ablity. They have maximized there gifts. At best, we are trivial. Perhaps we were made last, and this is why they have found us and we have yet to find them.

One must learn from what is around them, we just haven't casught up to what has been created before us. They have found us, yes, but I doubt we will ever truely know them ... even when we have the travel ablity they do .. by then, they will be even more advanced. Still further ahead.

*Z*



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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Doesn't look like a meteor .....painted in 1350


Again...doesn't look like a meteor to me...painted in 1486

Blow up of the object




posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 10:40 PM
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This one is even futher conclusive:

The first official investigation of a UFO sighting occurred in Japan in 1235. During the night of September 24, while General Yoritsume and his army were encamped, they observed mysterious lights in the heavens. The lights were seen in the southwest for many hours, swinging, circling, and moving in loops. The general ordered a "full-scale scientific investigation" of these strange events. The report finally submitted to him as the "soothing" ring of many contemporary explanations offered for UFO phenomena. In essence it read: "The whole thing is completely natural, General. It is... only the wind making the stars sway." (Jacques Vallee, "Passport to Magonia", p.5)
www.ufoevidence.org...

And I really like this one:
www.20kweb.com...

This is conclusive evidence for those with an open mind. The closed mind is not compatible with evidence. Evidence is what the closed mind fears most of all, it must be debunked harshly and promptly.


Sincerly

Cade


XL5

posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 10:45 PM
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Ufos don't exist at all, there are many IFOs though. It all depends on how you define things. Frost, is god real? Or are there aliens?

I wonder if there are any 200+yrs old paintings showing jets and cars or other things like that.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by XL5
Ufos don't exist at all, there are many IFOs though. It all depends on how you define things. Frost, is god real? Or are there aliens?

I wonder if there are any 200+yrs old paintings showing jets and cars or other things like that.


Then how do you explain roswell? Surely you cant say it was a weather balloon. Any one in their right mind would know the difference between a saucer and a balloon.

Heres a website for you: www.disclosureproject.org

On a side note: when you say UFO's dont exist, are you saying we've never been visited at all or life doesnt exist out in space? How do you know for sure that we havent been visited even for the shortest period of time?


XL5

posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 11:42 PM
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LOL "U"nIdentified Flying Object. No, I was saying thay "we" (the millitary) knew what were alien ships and what was ours!

So in that way, there are no "U"FO's, very rarely are there ever real UFO's that are not ours or theirs, sorta like rods WERE (rods are insects).



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 11:46 PM
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LadyV, im being reasonable here, please dont try to make me sound a fool.
I never said anything in a painting must be a meteor, or, there all meteors.
Let me re-iterate, I beleive folk painted what they saw, however this still dosent mean what they saw was Alien craft. Your painting of the flying thing with the person inside is certainly a mystery, but there is no reason to assume it MUST be alien in origin. Who knows if some of us didnt invent things that could fly hundreds of years ago ? Perhaps the painter was a seer like nostradamus, who painted what he "saw" in visions? Perhaps this early painter "saw" a modern jet and pilot?
Too many assumptions are made regarding these matters, both for and against.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 01:08 AM
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The paintings could be anything, pure fantasy as far as I am concern. There is Hindu text and paintings that describes flying machines and possible air battles called (I believe) The Seven Rishi Cities. These and the paintings appear to be works of the mind and nothing more.
As for seeing strange objects in the sky, yes, it is nothing new, and the way people react hasn't changed much. During the Vietnam War, Vietnamese soldiers shot into the air during lunar eclipses thinking the moon was a dragon.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 01:21 AM
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I can see that your plan to start a controversial thread (that is near and dear to many peoples heart) and to suck as many points from it as you can has succeeded. Congratulations.

I can also see that you found how easy it is to stir up a hornets nest.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by instar
I didn't say i didn't beleive these people painted what they saw. But its a rather bold assumption to say "they were painting ufo's" (unless you means literally unidentified flying objects, in which case Im sure they were. However lets not assume these unidentified objects they were painting, were nesseserily Alien spacecraft. For instance, that bloke and dog may have been witnessing a meteor?


It's amazing how people deny the most amazing evidence.
Perhaps it's a meteorite, which makes as much sense to me, as perhaps looking at the Pyramids, and saying they are square. It's a UFO mate. It has a 3D composition, it's a flying saucer, it has a glowing underside, and it's hovering above an ocean. Further more, it is not rare to find UFO's around Mary or Jesus, and even further, UFO's were not an unknown phenomena at the time.

Perhaps you need to see a painting of a UFO with an occupant in it, and as a bonus I'll throw in the insignia on it: The Crucifixion" 1350





Jesus: "I am not of this world"


[edit on 8-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]


XL5

posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 03:42 AM
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So Frosty, do you believe in god or points?



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:07 AM
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IC , I already replied about your image, please read the thread before replying. You say its a ufo, I say yes it is, literally. You say its a flying saucer an ill say thats pure speculation. Im sure even folk hundreds of years ago had an imagination, how do you know weather they actually saw these things in the sky or weather they were simply being creative.
The one with the "ufo" shining a beam may simply have been the artist impression of the sun and a beam of sunlight.
THe one you posted may be the artist rendering of a dream (however prophetic) or of a craft he envisioned inventing, or wished he could invent?
Leonardo da vinci painted images of craft that did not then exist! He invented them.
I dont say the artist/s did not see alien craft, but i dont simply assume they did from my own preconceptions of the phenomena, and my desperate desire to beleive they did.
I keep an open mind but I dont immediatly beleive unshakably anything thats presented to me either. A little reservation and an open mind serves me well, neither an ignorant skeptic nor a gullible fool am I.


Just incidently, i dont think jesus actually said that, i beleive it was "my kingdom is not of this world". thats neither here nor there however and is a bit of a tangent from the thread.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by instar]



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by one_small_step
The word Troll comes to mind - no point justifying your beliefs to it.

FYI ATS members, I've had to change my ID, I was formerly mistamash. For search engines reasons I have changed.




Yes, you are right... but I have to ask you: why the hell are you doing all this?



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 04:52 AM
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Alright, this is beyond ignorance. This is delusional:


You say its a flying saucer an ill say thats pure speculation. Im sure even folk hundreds of years ago had an imagination, how do you know weather they actually saw these things in the sky or weather they were simply being creative.


They are theological paintings commisioned by a dogmatic and fundamentalist church, that would have anything that does not conform to their accepted beliefs, condemned. It is you who are looking at this with a modern prejudice, by actually thinking of these artists as any artist today, who can easily distort Christian figures with artistic liscence. If they were to do that 600 years ago; they would be executed.

You are ignoring the hard facts that these paintings are not the only ones that depict UFO's, there are others by various other painters, from various time periods, who do the same.


The one with the "ufo" shining a beam may simply have been the artist impression of the sun and a beam of sunlight.


It surely does not look like a sun does it? It could be a UFO shining a beam down onto Mary, and then we have the Virigin birth. There is another UFO shining a beam during the baptism of Jesus.

The UFO hypothesis so far works. Weren't the wise men guided by a star?


THe one you posted may be the artist rendering of a dream (however prophetic) or of a craft he envisioned inventing, or wished he could invent?


Now, who is speculating? The difference is your speculation is not based in facts, as we can see with the following:


Leonardo da vinci painted images of craft that did not then exist! He invented them.


Yes, but do his flying machines look anything like UFO's, or even modern jets? They look extremely crude, made from sticks, metal frames,
and leather wings. That is because they are based in a pre-flight, pre-electricity, pre-rocketry and pre-antigravity(
) time period. Which is what I told you, that imagination is not just random, it is based on the observable world.

You can see this from even early 19th century science fiction. More than 95% of what they invisioned did not come true - for instance postmen giving the mail on propeller driven bicycles.

Even if a seer were to have a premonition of the far future, he would not understand it, and would interpret according to his understanding of the world. What may seem to be a nuclear blast, may to him seem like a great fire ball from heaven.

Yet, the UFO disk shape, glow, and hovering in the sky, is the same all the time.


I dont say the artist/s did not see alien craft, but i dont simply assume they did from my own preconceptions of the phenomena, and my desperate desire to beleive they did.
I keep an open mind but I dont immediatly beleive unshakably anything thats presented to me either. A little reservation and an open mind serves me well, neither an ignorant skeptic nor a gullible fool am I.


You have also missed what Cade posted above. That UFO's have been historically documented. Now, speaking of rocketry, how about Jesus preparing for lift off, with techncians wearing helmets around him. This is from 15th century Kiev, Russia.



You got to admit, considering all the paintings and illustrations I have presented you, if you still think it is all imagination, you are quite frankly, deluding yourself. That's alright with me.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 05:07 AM
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You have also missed what Cade posted above. That UFO's have been historically documented. Now, speaking of rocketry, how about Jesus preparing for lift off, with technians wearing helmets around him:



You got to admit, considering all the paintings and depictions I have presented you, if you still think it is all imagination, you are being close minded indeed.



What do you want from me IC ? These helmets you see may be a depiction of halo's i.e they are saints surrounding jesus and the craft you see is simply a depiction of his shining holy light.
Really , you see what you want to see in these images because you are already biased toward unconditional beleif.
Yes mysterious flying things in the skys have indeed been documented, i dont argue with that, but you infer they MUST have been alien spacecraft ,this is still pure speculation.
Yes they saw something unexplained, perhaps they were visiting aliens, I simply dont assume authority that that were without any doubt.
Your suggesting jesus was an alien? so what of his humble birth in the stable? I suppose you know exactly how it all happened dont you.
Give me a break. Im not closed minded just because im not a fanatical beleiver.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by instar]



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 05:24 AM
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Het Ic I just asked my daughter what she saw in the last pic. she said astronauts and god and gods on a torpedo! Maybe your right !



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