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You have all been duped.

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posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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This is the perfect example of what I was talking about Proof vs Evidence. Where is this metal? Do you have it? Can it be produced? Can you get the dozens of people to produce it? If the answer is no to these questions than you have EVIDENCE not PROOF. A second or third or forth hand story is not proof even if it is true.

I believe you (and the dozens of people) are right but my BELIEF is not PROOF.

Did any of you watch the SCI-FI channel report on Roswell last night? They are doing this the correct way taking modern science and trying to find PROOF, something that can be measured, handled, weighed, tested, etc. Not a story that a bar maids sister overheard. I am not saying that this is the only evidence by far. I have always said that this is the closest thing to a "Smoking Gun" that we have and I think if all the cards were laid on the table we would have proof, on this one at least. There is just TOO much evidence to be explained away, but again no proof.

[edit on 22-12-2004 by Amuk]


It seems like you have your own definition of proof. I have already produced the definition of proof.

I do not need to have the metal at hand to have proof. In the same way I do not have to go to space to have proof the Earth is round. I look at the evidence for the proposition:

Evidence:

A dozen people handle and test the material
A counter-intelligence corp and Major Marcel, and a brigadier general(in charge of the first nuclear strike force) declare "flying saucer found" publically to the media
The subsequent cover-up is ridiculously transparent
There are some 500 witnesses who saw it
The mysterious debris is now known as shape memory alloys using nanotube technology.

A belief: The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.

A proof: The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.

The logical assumption:

As the cover-up is blatantly obvious. It must mean that the original announcement was true "Flying disks recovered" and the original testimonies. This is further corroborated by hundreds of witnesses testifying for it and the actual existence of the alloy today.

In fact, it is the other way around; it takes belief to believe otherwise. It's quite simple really.

Oh, and there is no such as a undeniable or absolute proof.




posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 04:32 PM
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re: Glorification of the Eucharist

It looks like a hookah, or a flask, in the shape of a globe. The woman and the man are taking tokes from the long pipes coming from the hookah. The're a cork sealing the opening at the bottom of the flask. The artists is probably making some symbolic statement here but I doubt it concerns UFOs.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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......We live in a society where secrets like this are eventually exposed by our ravenous media. NOTHING would stop these reporters from getting to the bottom of this story, IF there really was a story there.

Ratings is everything to these people, and folks, lets face it, this would be THE story, THE scoop, in the entire history of the human race.

So whats stopping the media? Is it alien mind control? Is it the Govt cracking down on naughty reporters poking their nose in where it does not belong? Is it the fact that these aliens are so godawfully powerful that their mind control now extends to the editors at Time, Newsweek and Astronomy Today?

Or is it the fact that there just IS no story here?

(guess what I think)


I've been patiently waiting for someone to respond to my original post,which I partially quoted here, it has been up for several days....could it be that there is no good answer from those who support the idea of a alien/UFO/Govt conspiracy?

Since there are no answers posted, I guess I'm going to have to assume there are no good answers from the alien conspiracy buffs.

(and I'm not talking about some special on FX, we are talking about the all time blockbuster story of the entire human race here. Ratings people, that means major media outlets, not channel 47.)



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 05:24 PM
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I've been patiently waiting for someone to respond to my original post,which I partially quoted here, it has been up for several days....could it be that there is no good answer from those who support the idea of a alien/UFO/Govt conspiracy?

Since there are no answers posted, I guess I'm going to have to assume there are no good answers from the alien conspiracy buffs.

(and I'm not talking about some special on FX, we are talking about the all time blockbuster story of the entire human race here. Ratings people, that means major media outlets, not channel 47.)


I guess no one responded, because the answer is obvious; media control and stigmatization of UFO/ET. If a government can silence an entire town, silencing media is small fry. You see and hear what they want you to see and hear - illustrated example: Iraq



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child

It seems like you have your own definition of proof. I have already produced the definition of proof.


No you have produced YOUR version of proof



I do not need to have the metal at hand to have proof. In the same way I do not have to go to space to have proof the Earth is round.


But arent you taking the word of the same government that you claim lied about pretty much everything else? Again we dont have PROOF just a preponderince of evidence, also I have been in several airplanes where you can see the curve of the Earth and the shadow it throws on the Moon among several other things




I look at the evidence for the proposition:

Evidence:

A dozen people handle and test the material
A counter-intelligence corp and Major Marcel, and a brigadier general(in charge of the first nuclear strike force) declare "flying saucer found" publically to the media
The subsequent cover-up is ridiculously transparent
There are some 500 witnesses who saw it
The mysterious debris is now known as shape memory alloys using nanotube technology.

A belief: The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.

A proof: The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.



you even admit it yourself.....evidence and belief. I am not fighting you on this one hell, I believe it is true myself, its just that belief in something does not make it true and evidence doies not always mean proof. By your deffinition of proof if I could convince someone I was a martian then it would "prove" that I was a martian



The logical assumption:

As the cover-up is blatantly obvious. It must mean that the original announcement was true "Flying disks recovered" and the original testimonies. This is further corroborated by hundreds of witnesses testifying for it and the actual existence of the alloy today.



I agree with the first part, it is obviously a cover up. There is even PROOF of the cover up because both stories could not be true, not to even mention the changes in the government version down through the years. But that does not mean it MUST be a flying saucer. YOU believe it and I believe it and so do a hell of a lot of other people and the preponderince of the evidence points to it but the only people with PROOF (alien bodies, debris, a disc, etc) are not offering it up for public viewing.



In fact, it is the other way around; it takes belief to believe otherwise.


As I have said before a thousand times I agree, I think a cover up has been proved and almost all of it points to at least a disc and a few bodies. But again IT IS MY BELIEF not proof.



Oh, and there is no such as a undeniable or absolute proof.


Really? Stick your hand into a fire and tell me if its not proof that its hot.

What is stupid about this arguement is we are agreeing and fighting at the same time


just to make it clear.....I BELIEVE THE ROSWELL CRASH WAS REAL

And.......IT WAS PROVED TO BE SOME KIND OF COVER UP

And....I BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS A DISC AND PROBABLY BODIES

And.....MOST OF THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THAT

BUT......THAT IS JUST EVIDENCE NOT PROOF

Proof is not an arguement or even evidence it is proof. The evidence might have convinced you, hell it convinced me and a bunch of people a hell of a lot smarter than both of us put togather and I believe the proof is out there but I have not seen it and I doubt if you have either



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Frosty
IGnorance, it did take 30 years for any rumors or speculation of alien bodies found at Roswell to leak. The only ignorance revolving in this forum is you own.


Revealing a lack of knowledge is not something that adds to once credibility and can be hard to earn back in a forum like this. I tried to give you a hint before you sink deeper. Why did this make you bury yourself even deeper? Why are you such a hard man to help?


Sincerly

Cade



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by ngage
i agree i am not being nasty but if ufos were real and have visited us y have they not made cocntact proper contact


Sometimes we don't need to look to the cosmos to get answers. Sometimes another thread will provide it...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Sincerly

Cade

ps. How do we ourselves approach wild life in nature, if we want to gain their trust?



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child

I guess no one responded, because the answer is obvious; media control and stigmatization of UFO/ET. If a government can silence an entire town, silencing media is small fry. You see and hear what they want you to see and hear - illustrated example: Iraq


Obvious? If that was the case, than shutting you and me down on a site like this is taking candy from a baby.

Again, ratings is everything, NOTHING would stop these ravenous reporters if there was a story there.

Sorry, I don't think you or anyone else is ignorant, (like you apparently believe of anyone that does not believe in UFO's and the tooth fairy), but there just ain't no story there Geraldo.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 08:03 AM
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Ratings are important indeed. But the media doesn't take that kind of stuff seriously anyway. There is hardly anyone in the mainstream that takes fringe stuff as seriously as we do. Anything about UFO's and paranormal phenomena that ends up in the mainstream media virtually always goes in the "humour section", the "misc section", "weird section" etc... And the status quo stays.

If somebody even dares to come with such a story they're risking their career. They risking being called a crackpot for the rest of their lives and that's devastating for their career of course. Not even ratings can make people risk that.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 11:00 AM
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Sorry Cade, butit was a fabrication of knowledge (the story of alien bodies) which prompted the Roswell UFO incident to the hiegth it is now. You know why it took more than thirty years? Because no one was willing to pay for falsified information until the pseudo-documentary UFO's Are Real came out.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 12:01 PM
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Obvious? If that was the case, than shutting you and me down on a site like this is taking candy from a baby.


Why do they need to shut us down? We are the conspiracy nuts that no one listens too. Have you heard of "hiding in plain sight"


Again, ratings is everything, NOTHING would stop these ravenous reporters if there was a story there.


You obviously have no idea how journalism and media politics works. Journalists can only report what they are authorized to report and directed to report. Listen mate, you ain't going to hear it on CNN



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 12:37 PM
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No you have produced YOUR version of proof


No, actually, I have produced the English dictionaries definition of proof.



I do not need to have the metal at hand to have proof. In the same way I do not have to go to space to have proof the Earth is round.



But arent you taking the word of the same government that you claim lied about pretty much everything else? Again we dont have PROOF just a preponderince of evidence, also I have been in several airplanes where you can see the curve of the Earth and the shadow it throws on the Moon among several other things


No, I am taking the weight of the testimonial evidence of the military and civilians and the events to come to a logical conclusion.

Further, the government has far more to lose than gain by divulging a cover-up.



you even admit it yourself.....evidence and belief. I am not fighting you on this one hell, I believe it is true myself, its just that belief in something does not make it true and evidence doies not always mean proof. By your deffinition of proof if I could convince someone I was a martian then it would "prove" that I was a martian


Nope. The evidence is in the constituents of the proposition that collectively form proof of the proposition.


I agree with the first part, it is obviously a cover up. There is even PROOF of the cover up because both stories could not be true, not to even mention the changes in the government version down through the years. But that does not mean it MUST be a flying saucer. YOU believe it and I believe it and so do a hell of a lot of other people and the preponderince of the evidence points to it but the only people with PROOF (alien bodies, debris, a disc, etc) are not offering it up for public viewing.


It is simple boolean logic. If a proposition is not false, then it must be true.

As it already highly unlikely that 500 witnesses, brigadier generals, majors would be lying. To then mount a huge state-wide cover-up operation, would just confirm they are telling the truth. It is more about common sense than it is belief.





Oh, and there is no such as a undeniable or absolute proof.



Really? Stick your hand into a fire and tell me if its not proof that its hot.


Can you then prove it is hot to others? Relatively, the same fire that you say is "hot" is cold relative to another source.


Proof is not an arguement or even evidence it is proof. The evidence might have convinced you, hell it convinced me and a bunch of people a hell of a lot smarter than both of us put togather and I believe the proof is out there but I have not seen it and I doubt if you have either


Again, do you need to see the Earth is round to have proof that it is round?
If you had seen the Roswell UFO crash and aliens come out of, how could you prove that it was not a dream? You couldn't.

It's more about having common sense( a synergistic use of logic and intuition) than it about slavishly following doctrines of logic that cannot prove anything. There IS proof that UFO/aliens exist. I am going to leave it at that.

[edit on 23-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 03:50 PM
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forgive me if someone already said this but frosty did you view every document of project bluebook?.and here's something else to think about is if there is no cover ups why does the gov't take so long to declassify documents?.it takes about 70 years to be declassified.hmmm i wonder why...maybe because 70 years later no one cares and everyone involved is dead or close to the death.the jfk file has still not been declassified.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
Ratings are important indeed. But the media doesn't take that kind of stuff seriously anyway. ....

.....If somebody even dares to come with such a story they're risking their career. They risking being called a crackpot for the rest of their lives and that's devastating for their career of course. Not even ratings can make people risk that.


The media would not take the most important story in the history of mankind seriously?

I seriously doubt Geraldo would worry about being called a crackpot for the rest of his career. You heard about Al capone's vault right?



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Why do they need to shut us down? We are the conspiracy nuts that no one listens too.....


Very well said Child. I wonder why I'm paying any attention to you?


You obviously have no idea how journalism and media politics works. Journalists can only report what they are authorized to report and directed to report. Listen mate, you ain't going to hear it on CNN


Oh I see! Authorized to report like your flimsy Iraq comment from a previous post. With all the rosy news coming from Iraq, its so obvious that the media is being controlled by the Govt. We hear nothing but happy, happy news about Iraqi children back in schools, hospitals being reopened, and kids getting candy from soldiers. God forbid the media could report that anything bad is happening over there. With all the "brilliantlly sunny" reports coming from Iraq, gee, one would hardly think there is a war going on at all now, would we?

Or perhaps the aliens are using that infernal mind control beam that I saw Kang and Kodos use? Those mind control rays come in awful handy when you are trying to rein in those naughty reporters and editors, poking around where they do not belong...



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 06:43 PM
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Or perhaps the aliens are using that infernal mind control beam that I saw Kang and Kodos use? Those mind control rays come in awful handy when you are trying to rein in those naughty reporters and editors, poking around where they do not belong...


Your ignorance aside. But no one here is talking about mind control of the media. We are talking about the system of media poltiics.

I don't think you even didn't even know that the reporters are sometimes directed by an off-screen television diretor? Geez, dude, you probably even think the reporter owns the show


They are directed, as in told what to report and what to film. I did ENG(Electronic News Gathering) in film school, I know what the process entails( from pre-production to post production) When you grow up you will learn politics and hierarchy is involved in every field.

You cannot just go about harping on television about aliens, without actually getting permission from the executives of the organization you work for. Get real kid.

[edit on 23-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 07:19 PM
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What if journalists and reporters do actually use mind control? There are so many possibilities to do that, not just a paranormal way... you know: ads, body language, eyecontact, all bases of mind control, but at a primitive level.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 11:14 PM
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Yes, and there are certain spy files that have not been declassified. Must be a cover up right?



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 06:20 AM
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Adolf Hitler was among those, who did the mose for (illegal and brutal) experiments on humans. I believe, there are already many tactics for mind control, already used in the media. Also, when people learn psychology, they learn the how-to, too.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Your ignorance aside. But no one here is talking about mind control of the media. We are talking about the system of media poltiics....

....They are directed, as in told what to report and what to film. I did ENG(Electronic News Gathering) in film school, I know what the process entails( from pre-production to post production) When you grow up you will learn politics and hierarchy is involved in every field.

You cannot just go about harping on television about aliens, without actually.....
[edit on 23-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

....having a story that is factual.

I love your tolerance of other peoples views, anyone who does not believe in your Govt/UFO/Media/Alien conspiracy is ignorant and waiting to grow up.

Lovely!


You are just oh so smug and righteous up there in your cloud, pontificating to all the huddled masses. Thanks so much for your infinite wisdom and have a great holiday season! (since I'm not quite grown up yet, my mommy told me it is not nice to hurl insults about in this holday season.)



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