Islam : What they don`t want you to know

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: Expat888

Straight out of the manual how to create an enemy .. yaaaaawwwwnnnn ....

Happy to see your nonchalant attitude. When you're kneeling on a prayer rug (with the threat of having your head cut off) 30 years from now, let's see if you'll be singing a different tune.

If what you are saying is true then please explain how there are people that follow faiths besides Islam that live in Muslim nations with no problems and have not had their heads cut off? Yes there are nations like Saudi Arabia where they don't allow other faiths but Muslim nations like Iran and Syria allow other faiths with no problem.

No problems? Uh. Ok.

"In 2011, Iran executed an Israeli-born Jewish woman along with her Armenian Christian husband".
rescuechristians.org...

"Christians Flee Syria as Religious Persecution Displaces Millions in 2013"
www.newsweek.com...

a reply to: twfau

I would tend to agree.

I dont know a single ("religious" person of whatever faith) who thinks man's laws > "God's" laws...

The abortion issue alone illustrates the point.

a reply to: UnBreakable

Yaaaawwwnnn ..
1. I have no fear of dying .. faced death many times over the years .. sooner or later everyone dies thats life.
2. I dont give in to threats or extortion.

I live my life on my terms not the terms of others ... not my problem you like most westerners fear death .. nor will I follow any of the primitive .. barbaric .. bloodthirsty abrahamic religions that are hellbent on butchering each other over differences in how they worship their "god" and their psychotic desire to end the world.

I refuse to get dragged into the idiocy .. however if directly threatened or attacked and left with no escape I will not hesitate to defend myself using whatever force necessary to do so ...

originally posted by: buster2010
A video made by known Islamophobes. Yeah we sure can expect the truth there.

Truth hurts Buster boy.Why are 17 from first 20 terrorist attacks by death toll connected to Islam and Islamism ?

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: Expat888

Straight out of the manual how to create an enemy .. yaaaaawwwwnnnn ....

Happy to see your nonchalant attitude. When you're kneeling on a prayer rug (with the threat of having your head cut off) 30 years from now, let's see if you'll be singing a different tune.

If what you are saying is true then please explain how there are people that follow faiths besides Islam that live in Muslim nations with no problems and have not had their heads cut off? Yes there are nations like Saudi Arabia where they don't allow other faiths but Muslim nations like Iran and Syria allow other faiths with no problem.

No problems? Uh. Ok.

"In 2011, Iran executed an Israeli-born Jewish woman along with her Armenian Christian husband".
rescuechristians.org...

"Christians Flee Syria as Religious Persecution Displaces Millions in 2013"
www.newsweek.com...

I wouldn't hurt to do a little research on your links. The first one left out that the woman was arrested for adultery which carries the death penalty in Iran. So she wasn't executed for her religion.
Iran executes Jewish woman

The official cause for her arrest was adultery, from what little information that is known to her family.

In your second link the Christians are fleeing from being killed by the rebel army that America is backing they are not fleeing from the Syrian government. Also if you had read the rest of your second link you would have noticed this little part.

in the Central African Republic, lawlessness and sectarian violence between Christians and Muslims had reportedly resulted in 700 deaths in December alone and the displacement of more than a million people in 2013.

After this little part the article goes on to talk about how it is Muslims that the violence is being directed aginst not how Muslims are attacking other people. And this end of the article really prove how the Muslims hate people of other faiths.

Other such interfaith solidarity included Muslims helping to protect Christians by forming human chains around churches in Pakistan and similar actions by Muslims in Egypt.

Yeah they really hate those Christians.

From the 8th-13th century, Europeans called it the dark era. dark for whom? Dark for the Europeans. Muslims were at the top of the world at that time. They weren't blowing each other up and killing people as much as they are now are they? So its not the religion but people use religion to use it against others. Happens plenty of times in history as you may know. Mansa Musa by the way was the king of Mali and was the richest man in HISTORY. Havent heard of him Im sure because guess what, hes muslim!

lets look at the UK. For example, like 200 years ago, there was a bit of inequality in that country (I guess you could say that) where women weren't allowed to own property. But now, these countries are more developed socially, women and men are seen as equal (using an example here). Hmm, so did christianity change and or did the culture. THE CULTURE. Had nothing to do with christianity. If you wanna keep throwing those pathetic quotes degrading islam, I can do the same thing.

1) BIBLE: Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants,
2) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war,
3) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently,
4) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law,
5) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

^^^^^^^damn, i can make any book look bad. lets look at this quote.

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Well, someone can either look at it at a bad way or as a good way. You could see it as me not understanding how ancient legal codes work and am making invalid judgments of an Ancient Oriental Legal Code based on my own incomplete understanding of a Modern Occidental Legal Code. In Ancient Oriental Legal Codes (be it the Code of Haramaruppi or the Bible) references to stoning, cutting off limbs, burning etc are not had fast penalties but codes identifying the relative severity of the crime. It was understood that the judge would take into account situation, mitigating circumstances etc. and apply a punishment that fit the crime. If I look at the actual application of the law (there are far more examples from Sumerian clay tablets than in the Talmuds) In most cases the judgment was making some form or monetary restitution or paying a fine rather than death or dismemberment.

The Written law acted more as a guide to administration of the law and severity of offenses but left it up to the Judges to determine the appropriate penalty based on the totality of circumstances. Until fairly recently even in our Modern Occidental Legal system, the Judge could accept the sentencing guidelines in the law or choose his own punishment based on circumstances. Modern Occidental laws often list a minimum and maximum for offenses leaving it to the judge to decide what would apply. Ancient Oriental Laws only listed the maximum for offenses to reflect the relative severity of the offense but it still was in the hand of the judge to decide the actual penalty applied on a case by case basis.

So you can have different interpretations on what certain quotes mean. Islam is not a bad religion. Neither is christianity or judaism. Ppl just use it to their own advantage. Have you forgotten the Albigensian Crusade? That EVIL POPE who ordered everyone that believed in Catharism (a form a christianity that was not accepted by the pope) would be KILLED. He stated that the god himself told him this!!! See, using his religion to do your own sh*t!

END RANT

a reply to: xavi1000

Why are 17 from first 20 terrorist attacks by death toll connected to Islam and Islamism ?

Because terrorist attacks have been shown or can be seen by those with eyes to see that its political in nature.

They can be connected to Islam because of the invading forces in Muslim lands, simple as that.

Its not Islamic ideology to cause terror and kill innocents.

Believe the TV and the bigots and the fanatics who misinterpret their holy book if you please, its always a choice.

I choose to see the beauty in Islam and what other religions offer and how it contradicts so many actions of so called religious followers of their said beliefs.

originally posted by: twfau
a reply to: ketsuko

I don't think it's the only religion that harbours those thoughts. In fact Catholicism practically did rule the world at one point. The fact is Islam won't conquer the world no matter how much they want to.

It's an interesting study, it's not particularly surprising that many muslims are fundamentalist, but perhaps more surprising that so many Christians aren't, although I think a study in USA would show higher levels. It does make one implication that low socio-economic status is related to fundamentalism, but doesn't mention whether there are any socio-economic differences between Christian and Muslim societies.

Here's a direct link to the study.

Ah, I was waiting for this.

There is a reason I said there are different ways to interpret the phrase as there is a close analog in Christianity - No God; No Peace which can sometimes be seen as Know God; Know Peace. These can also be interpreted in different ways.

However, I think broader Christianity (even Catholicism) stopped going on forced conversion crusades a while ago. Not even when W toppled Saddam did we send in forced conversion teams even though some bomb throwers threw it out there, some in jest, some not so much.

Right now, ISIS is following the standard convert or die playbook against anyone who doesn't conform.

You can claim that they won't conquer the world, but how do you know? Fact is that they're more zealous than we are at the moment. They'll fight with more passion, and right down to the last man, they're willing to die because it furthers their religious cause. Can you say the same if they come for you?

originally posted by: InhaleExhale


They can be connected to Islam because of the invading forces in Muslim lands, simple as that.

I choose to see the beauty in Islam and what other religions offer and how it contradicts so many actions of so called religious followers of their said beliefs.

Wrong answer , US and Nato bombed Serbia , why there is not single Serb commited terrorist attack ?

Beauty in Islam ? Hahahahhahahha. You are infidel for them , you have two choices , submission or death .

Having spent 1/4 of my life in Europe, I have observed and experienced this problem of Islamic "us vs them" mentality, and it is a huge problem there. This is not propaganda, believe me. There is a genuine problem. It is not unique to Islam, either. Many Christians also carry this mentality, and a number of Christian sects, dangerously so. However, in Europe, Christianity went through a reformation, and its influence there has severely declined to the point that Christians no longer cause the problems they once did (with the exception of Ireland, and that is political as well).

For Americans to understand, it is similar in the basic respects to all the fundamentalist cults, or the general mentality found in the Bible belt, except European Muslims feel little to no connection to their countries of residence. This is a huge problem.

I'm not saying that all Muslims should be rounded up and expelled, but I noticed European laws tend to be to light. The Muslim community needs to follow these laws, traditions, and instututions like everyone else, or receive the same punishment as the fellow Europeans. Cultural sensitivity be damned. If a host nations culture is so offense, then perhaps they should find elsewhere to live.

Yeah they really hate those Christians.

This is true, you are right.

"Iranian Government Steps up Persecution of Religious Minorities"
www.domini.org...

a reply to: xavi1000

Wrong answer

oh well,

Its not my answer to be wrong.

I was just parroting what I heard like many others.

US and Nato bombed Serbia , why there is not single Serb commited terrorist attack ?

Why?

Are you sure about that?

Beauty in Islam ? Hahahahhahahha. You are infidel for them , you have two choices , submission or death .

What is with so many ATSers that I debate or discuss Islamic issues with, they all seem to know who I am.

No I am not an Infidel, sorry but I have delusional belief like many others in a creator.

Two choices, no I have more choices than you could count in a 1000 lifetimes.

Yes you can try scare me with your fears, I find it funny.

Quite a few lately attempting to instill their fears and when pointed out, "Oh I don't live in fear"

Sorry but the joke is funny only for so long, its becoming sad because I have laughed in the face of fear all you haters want to release or share with others.

Go On say you don't live in fear, like every other poster that tries to tell me what reality is.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: xavi1000

Why are 17 from first 20 terrorist attacks by death toll connected to Islam and Islamism ?

Its not Islamic ideology to cause terror and kill innocents.

Really?

"Does Moderate Islamic Ideology Exist?
One of the guiding principles of the Islamic State is that Muslims must fight non-Muslims all over the world and offer them the following choices: Join, pay a humiliating tax called “jijya,” or to be killed. This violent principle was the basic doctrine that justified the Islamic conquests by the early Muslims.

After recent savagery by ISIS and other militant groups around the world, the following question inevitably is raised: Is it possible to be a follower and not adhere to that mandate?

In other words, if a young Muslim became very religious, is there an approved Islamic theological source or interpretation that clearly contradicts such a principle or at least teaches it in a different way, for example, contextualizing it in time and place?
The sad answer is: No".
counterjihadreport.com...

How many of you non-Muslims have actually sat down with a practicing Muslim and talked about what he/she believes, instead of relying solely on Western propaganda (silly me, I mean "media")?

The conversation may surprise you. This old trick of pointing to the actions of a few (who are financed, trained and supplied as part of a Western agenda, mind you) and making sweeping generalizations about the group as a whole doesn't work anymore. If you want to know what Islam is about, stop watching YouTube videos and actually go talk to Muslims.

Are you afraid you might like them? They have a religion that teaches people it's ok to fight back against tyranny and oppression. I like that. You'd think it would actually be somewhat popular in the United States, and on ATS in particular.

But no. All we ever see is the aftermath of the actions of our own agents indiscriminately killing women and children for shock value in the pursuit of political (and I can't stress that enough) ends.

And in this paranoid, Islam-ignorant culture, I now feel obliged to say that just because I'm defending Muslims does not mean I am one. I do the same thing frequently for Christians, however I'm not a Christian either.

I just feel morally compelled to call out BS when I see it.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Dancing? Or did you forget all those candlelight vigils that were held?

www.liveleak.com...

Its so easy to forget the truth.

I was talking about Muslims dancing in the streets in The Netherlands to say their world view wasn`t coming so much from attacks which he pointed out.

And I still find it unbelievable we have only seen pro ISIS demonstrations of Muslims In The Netherlands and not against them.

a reply to: NthOther

How many of you non-Muslims have actually sat down with a practicing Muslim and talked about what he/she believes, instead of relying solely on Western propaganda (silly me, I mean "media")?

Quite a few times.
Sure, they were moderate Muslims who were willing to listen and debate.

But its the one's who aren't really prepared to sit down and discuss things in a rational manner who pose a problem.

And its worth bearing in mind that many Muslims are taught that it is perfectly ok to lie to kaffirs in order to further the advance of Islam and that Muslims must not do anything that may prove detrimental to other Muslims who may be involved in Jihad.

These are the Muslims who turn a blind eye to the grooming that goes on within some Muslim communities and to the activities of the extremists.

Islam is diametrically opposed to Western culture.
In 'the west' people are taught about freedom of choice, freedom of belief etc.
Islam teaches complete obedience to the words of Mohammed - it governs almost every single aspect of a Muslims life.

Of course Muslims vary in how they stick to these teachings.

I've spoken to many Muslims of varying strength of faith - very few will outright condemn terrorists.

a reply to: NthOther

When there are problems between people, it doesn`t matter in what circumstances, they can only be solved when there`s mutual respect. I`ve seen very long lasting an very deep feuds being resolved because both parties started to respect each other again. But I also have seen them fail, because one party refused to do so.

When Muslims are taught they are superior and by so, other thinking people are of less importance, to even no need to be respected, you are going to have problems. That`s something which can be seen clearly in the behavior towards women on the street as I showed, they think it`s fine to use them as sexual objects and when they refuse, they are called whores, etc., but that`s actual how lots of them see them, not to be respected and only good as sexual objects, hence why rape is justified in the eyes of many. That`s also why the beheadings are so easily justified in the ME.

The Muslims in Western Europe have been given as much freedom as what could be done to gave them religious freedom, but still some seem to want to push it even further. Trying to get mosques to say prayers during the day outside with loudspeakers, street blocking because of Muslims praying on the streets, trying to implement the Sharia law at certain places, etc. It`s a total lack of respect to the Western society and it`s cultural to even try to push for these kinds things.

There have also been big problems with Hate Imams and the lack of doing anything against them. Those are the ones who preach Islam should conquer the world and are invited regularly at mosques. It seems finally in The Netherlands they say they are not going to ignore it anymore, but saying and doing is a huge difference over here :

Minister Asscher: After Years of Neglect, We Will Deal With Hate Imams

Source

So the reason why long ago I already came to the conclusion that Western society and Islam don`t go together is the lack of respect of one side. And instead of what you say about praising them for being taught to fight, they should be taught to respect, but that won`t happen if you`re being taught to be superior because of your faith.

originally posted by: Freeborn

Islam is diametrically opposed to Western culture.
In 'the west' people are taught about freedom of choice, freedom of belief etc.

People are taught those things, but that isn't how things work in practice and we all know it. And so do they.

Islam is incompatible with Western priorities. That in no way makes it inferior, nor does it mean that they want to wipe out the West simply because they don't buy into it.

I've spoken to many Muslims of varying strength of faith - very few will outright condemn terrorists.

Why is it incumbent upon them to prove to you that all Muslims aren't terrorists? It's probably as simple as them not giving a damn what anyone else thinks. Nor should they. It is not the "good" Muslim community's responsibility to denounce the "bad" Muslim community so that you can feel better and more convicted about the superiority of Western society.

Who thinks who is superior to whom, anyway?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I know what is happening over here, because I actual live here. I have seen enough of the behavior of Muslims over here to actual know this is true.

Few are the ATS members who speak from personal experience.

I salute you...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Too bad you had such an experience Amsterdam, it`s mostly a friendly city, but you have to keep your eyes out for it. The more you go away from the "big" cities the friendlier it gets in The Netherlands, especially if you go towards what they call the "Provence" (the North, South and East side).

I`m aware of the homeless, I used to be friends with some of them and gave them a roof over their head at my place occasionally in the winter.