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Gnosticism In The Broader Context Of Mysticism

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posted on Sep, 23 2014 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: Akragon


The writers of these books could very well have had their own encounters with apostles and past what they taught down through a century or two.... Or even had their own encounter with Jesus…

Why would Jesus come as the "Bringer of Gnosis" and not bother to tell anyone what it was until a hundred years after he died? And then let it disappear a couple hundred years later?

If Gnostic Christianity is correct, then we're all boned, because the passwords required to get past the Archons (that's what the "Gnosis" was,) vanished with the last of Valentinius' followers in the Fourth Century. Which makes Jesus a complete failure and the Gnostic gods pretty impotent. Not exactly the ultimate religion, I'd have to say.




posted on Sep, 23 2014 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

very well said. plus, when you actually read the gnostic texts and listen to modern-day gnostics, they often seem to purposefully try to obfuscate and talk in circles…and they seriously hate the very idea of Jesus…one well-known C2C gnostic guest cursed and ridiculed me when I suggested the evidence I was was finding was in favor of the Textus Receptus/New Testament. They seem to know the scholarship is in favor of the Gospels and use anger to cover the facts…

yt: The Bible Is True! ~ The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict
www.youtube.com...
yt: Walter Veith (13) Battle of the Bibles /Total Onslaught
www.youtube.com...
youtube: The Resurrection Argument That Changed a Generation of Scholars - Gary Habermas at UCSB youtu.be...
yt: The Forbidden Book - History of The English Bible (Documentary Film)
www.youtube.com...
yt: A Lamp In The Dark:untold history of Bible ~ Full Film
www.youtube.com...

yt: Jesus: Evidence, ancient historical sources
youtu.be...
Part I: Evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ by Simon Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University. Dr. Greenleaf was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated: 
"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).

Part II examines evidence from the non-biblical sources of nineteen pagan writers that refer to Jesus Christ of the first century such as Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger. Also doucmented by Flavius Josephus, the greatest historian of the Jews.



posted on Sep, 23 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: Akragon


The writers of these books could very well have had their own encounters with apostles and past what they taught down through a century or two.... Or even had their own encounter with Jesus…

Why would Jesus come as the "Bringer of Gnosis" and not bother to tell anyone what it was until a hundred years after he died? And then let it disappear a couple hundred years later?

If Gnostic Christianity is correct, then we're all boned, because the passwords required to get past the Archons (that's what the "Gnosis" was,) vanished with the last of Valentinius' followers in the Fourth Century. Which makes Jesus a complete failure and the Gnostic gods pretty impotent. Not exactly the ultimate religion, I'd have to say.


From my point of view Christianity is not the biggest spiritual success story. But then every soul finding it's way home is a victory in itself. Jesus said himself that his message would be corrupted and that many would call themselves anointed that where not.

Paul comes to mind.



Matthew 24:24 For false messiahs a and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:22 For false messiahs a and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, the elect.

a In these two verses, the Greek text has pseudochristoi, plural of pseudochristos. The part pseudo meant “false”, and the part christos was a Greek translation of the Hebrew mashiyach which meant “anointed”. The word “Messiah” comes from the Hebrew ha-Mashiyach, “the Anointed”.

edit on 23-9-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2014 @ 10:04 PM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle


Paul comes to mind.

Paul may have pre-dated Luther (no opinion, I'm still divided,) but he was absolutely not a Gnostic. And he's not a Gospel writer, regardless.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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Firstly, excellent thread for thought.

I'm very much like the OP, in that I have taken a little from all religions in forming my own brand of spirituality.

On the subject of the body being a prison, it's hard to see this living a modern life based on gratifying oneself.

Contemporary life predisposes us to a pleasure seeking, self-gratifying, narcissistic existence.

Modern evils have made it so that the majority of pain a successful individual experiences is mostly existential.

The true pain and negativity of life is clearly observed in the harsh natural world.


There is a place, terrifying to some, beyond the dimension of physicality , where time and space have no meaning.
It is in this place where the most ultimate peace and truth can be found.

Just saying.......
edit on 24-9-2014 by cointelpatrol because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: Akragon


The writers of these books could very well have had their own encounters with apostles and past what they taught down through a century or two.... Or even had their own encounter with Jesus…

Why would Jesus come as the "Bringer of Gnosis" and not bother to tell anyone what it was until a hundred years after he died? And then let it disappear a couple hundred years later?

If Gnostic Christianity is correct, then we're all boned, because the passwords required to get past the Archons (that's what the "Gnosis" was,) vanished with the last of Valentinius' followers in the Fourth Century. Which makes Jesus a complete failure and the Gnostic gods pretty impotent. Not exactly the ultimate religion, I'd have to say.


That is the thing...

He did give the "gnosis" as I've stated, and it can be found within the gospels...

I am personally more of the opinion that the information found in some of the texts was given by Jesus but not relevant to what the church wanted to teach... which essentially revolved around Paul and his writing... Moreover because the gnostic texts do not rely on a church, but the self... No church required...

I find it to be completely impossible that only 3 of the people that actually knew Jesus bothered to write anything down considering he commissioned how many people in the gospels??

We know he had many many followers... Yet only three wrote anything... it just doesn't make any sense, even if a good portion of the population was mostly illiterate... Most of the apostles were as well yet they managed to get some stuff written down...

I think much of the gnostic writing was composed by followers of Jesus that weren't known...

And im 100% convinced that there are libraries in the world that have more information on Jesus that people will not release... namely the Vatican... and im sure there are others as well

Likely because said writing will officially terminate Christianity... the trinity, and Paul...

but of course we will never see these documents so its nothing but speculation on my part


edit on 24-9-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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On tonight, live from 10PM Eastern time!

Show thread with listening information



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 07:43 PM
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It seems to be that the 'God' described in the Old Testament is more similar to the Gnostic 'Demiurge' rather than the all-knowing, omnipresent Christian God. Take Deuteronomy 4-24: 'For the Lord God is a consuming fire, a jealous God', and 5-9: "for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me". The old testament God seems very insecure and desperate for people to love Him (could make sense due to His isolated existence) whilst the description of the Monad feels more apt to describe an ultimate entity which is omnipresent and benevolent.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: twfau

My thoughts exactly... Another thing that seems to ring true as far as the comparison between the two...

This OT god is jealous... who could he/she/it possibly be Jealous of?

Humans?

Now that is funny...




posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

You're welcome to come on the show tonight to argue the point with me



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: adjensen

i'll be in the chat room...



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 10:37 PM
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originally posted by: adjensen


On tonight, live from 10PM Eastern time!

Show thread with listening information


That's cool...



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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originally posted by: twfau
It seems to be that the 'God' described in the Old Testament is more similar to the Gnostic 'Demiurge' rather than the all-knowing, omnipresent Christian God. Take Deuteronomy 4-24: 'For the Lord God is a consuming fire, a jealous God', and 5-9: "for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me". The old testament God seems very insecure and desperate for people to love Him (could make sense due to His isolated existence) whilst the description of the Monad feels more apt to describe an ultimate entity which is omnipresent and benevolent.


That's part of why I think the gnostics were so controversial...based on what I've been reading, they do seem to basically think they God generally described in the 'Old Testament' is a lower-level deity that is basically negative, the demi-urge perhaps or one of the negative beings described...which is interesting, and would obviously be controversial. In a text I was just reading, it says that man eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a good thing. That the feminine aspect of the ultimate God temporarily took possession of the serpent, and it was She, an aspect of God, which convinced Eve to eat of the tree...because they were supposed to...and it was 'the authorities,' the negative entities who rule this physical world, who were angry about it...again, obviously controversial, since normative Christian doctrine states it was this act which caused 'the fall' of man into 'sin,' even 'original sin.'



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 11:05 PM
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a reply to: TheJourney

Original sin was a product of Paul, not Jesus...

You might also notice a while later a man named Marcion who was a huge supporter of Paul was basically the main Heretic the church at the time was against...

Ironic?




posted on Sep, 25 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: adjensen


On tonight, live from 10PM Eastern time!

Show thread with listening information


Would be interesting to listen to...is it season 6 episode 6 on the 'reality remix?'



posted on Sep, 25 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid




founder of the Gnostic church and was the direct competitor with Christianity


That says it all. Cant have a competitor to the Xtian cult that practices cannibalism and vicarious atonement.

edit on 25-9-2014 by TheConstruKctionofLight because: spelling



posted on Sep, 25 2014 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: adjensen

And where is it written what Jesus told anybody. There is no direct contemporaneous writings of first hand knowledge of Jesus sayings. Be intelectually honest.



posted on Sep, 25 2014 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: Verum1quaere




Also doucmented by Flavius Josephus, the greatest historian of the Jews.


He wrote just 2 sentences referring to the Nazarene. Many scholars have shown that they were later interpolations. There is no first hand proof that Jesus ever existed.



posted on Sep, 25 2014 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: TheJourney

It is Season 6, Episode 7. It usually takes a few days to get it posted to the Rewind Player, you might want to check on the weekend.



posted on Sep, 25 2014 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight


And where is it written what Jesus told anybody. There is no direct contemporaneous writings of first hand knowledge of Jesus sayings. Be intelectually honest.

If you wish to be "intelectually honest", I would recommend you do some research, rather than just casting out some bland accusation that you have no basis for, apart from the desire for it to be true.

Start with Richard Bauckham's excellently annotated historical analysis, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses, one of the best examinations of the Gospels in recent memory. His bibliography will lead you further into the field.



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