It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Given the political climate in the United States, does Tytler's theory show a nation near death?

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 05:06 PM
link   
You can look up more about this all over the internet, but here are some quotes from him. The first quote will explain why this chain of events takes place. The second will explain the stages.


A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.



The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.


I believe that the people of the US are somewhere between apathy and dependence, and if this does not reverse they are in danger of heading back into bondage.
edit on 9/21/2014 by mikefougnie because: missing word




posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 05:24 PM
link   
Hitting the nail on the head.
Maybe someday we can all stick with liberty and abundance. lol
Never be complacent
a reply to: mikefougnie




posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 05:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: Ziath
Hitting the nail on the head.
Maybe someday we can all stick with liberty and abundance. lol
Never be complacent
a reply to: mikefougnie



Now that would be something!



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 05:27 PM
link   


From dependence back into bondage.


I would argue that we are already in bondage and are living in an illusion of freedom.

We certainly aren't helping ourselves by voting the dirtbags to Washington over and over.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 05:28 PM
link   
This was written about the Athenian Republic originally, but it describes our current situation to a scary "tee".

We are near or at a tipping point. The number of people who depend on government money are close to outnumbering the people who provide that money as taxes. When this happens the vote will go to the candidate who will provide the largest meal from the government teat. This fiscal irresponsibility will soon lead to the economic collapse of our country.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 05:31 PM
link   
a reply to: Metallicus

Yeah, I may have to agree with that.


a reply to: happykat39

I knew that, and you're right, it does. I believe this theory is more due to the nature of the human mind than politics.
edit on 9/21/2014 by mikefougnie because: edited



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:24 PM
link   
a reply to: mikefougnie

The piece as it is posted sounded phoney to me. Rather than being a sound historical observation by a reputable historian, it sounds like one of those propaganda pieces, written to support a certain political leaning to encourage the beliefs of people of that leaning.

The OP mentions that this is all over the internet so a quick wiki-look suggests that "there is no reliable record of Alexander Tytler's having written any part of the text. In fact, it actually comprises two parts which didn't begin to appear together until the 1970s. The first paragraph's earliest known appearance is in an op-ed piece by Elmer T. Peterson in the 9 December 1951 The Daily Oklahoman, which attributed it to Tytler" wikiqoute...


edit on 21-9-2014 by TerryMcGuire because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: mikefougnie
You can look up more about this all over the internet, but here are some quotes from him. The first quote will explain why this chain of events takes place. The second will explain the stages.


A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.



The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.


I believe that the people of the US are somewhere between apathy and dependence, and if this does not reverse they are in danger of heading back into bondage.



People of the US of A are entertainment drowns in mass. Mass killers. Learn how are you, sweaty, complacent.

Have a nice evening.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:40 PM
link   
Stop pushing dollar dominance. You are done.

The King is naked.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:46 PM
link   
a reply to: mikefougnie

The people of this once great country are so lost they think we are a democracy........Foolish progressive lies. This is the real reason the country is slipping away. We forgot we are in fact a republic ruled by law.



Understand the difference before calling this country a democracy. Also understand why the founding fathers hated democracies.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:51 PM
link   
a reply to: SubTruth

You are right about the United States being a republic. The best definition of a democracy I have heard is that it is rule by the majority regardless of right or wrong; in other words "mob rule".



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 08:20 PM
link   
That is a very generalize theory. Our country is far more screwed than what this scale suggests. The complexities of our post-modern world makes the lines blur so to speak, not so linear.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 08:26 PM
link   
We are an OLIGARCHY now...run by a cryptocracy protected by useful idiots.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 08:33 PM
link   
I detect more than a little period bias in this theory. How true would this have sounded in 2007 when we were under Bush? That would have been the moment for a more Marxist sounding theory along he lines of abundance breeds unrealistic greed breeds revolution.

Ultimately time will tell. The end of American dominance has been declared before but I tend to think we've got 20 more years no matter how things play out- yes yes, China, I've heard - but if we don't pay off the debt and can't afford to keep buying they are in bigger trouble than we are. And short of that a hell of a lot can happen in 20 years. Frankly I think whoever cracks the water and fuel problem first owns the second half of this century and that basically means America or Russia, which means America.

And that's before you even get into the underlying BS of this topic - that the subsidies America gives to the rich would feed and clothe not merely the American electorate but the whole global population several times over (which far from destroying our nation would make us the greatest power ever seen virtually overnight)



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 09:06 PM
link   
a reply to: The Vagabond

Even if it was not Mr Tyler who wrote it, it still makes a good point. And taking it as a warning and figuring out what to do about it could save any nation.



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 12:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: happykat39
a reply to: SubTruth

You are right about the United States being a republic. The best definition of a democracy I have heard is that it is rule by the majority regardless of right or wrong; in other words "mob rule".




Good too see someone knows what the facts are. We are not a democracy and the fact that progressives want to turn this country into one is the reason it is falling apart.


Democracies will always lead into oligarchies that is why we are a republic ruled by law. Right now we live under a corporate/banking oligarchy ruled by a select few. This is because we bought into the lies the progressives sell.


I wonder how many people reading this even know what "oligarchy" means. If you have ave never heard it before look it up and see the real truth. Also look up the roots of the progressive movement in the early 19th century and how men like Hitler,Stalin,Mao applied this form of rule.........So many people buying a lie.....So sad indeed.



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 01:25 PM
link   


believe that the people of the US are somewhere between apathy and dependence, and if this does not reverse they are in danger of heading back into bondage.


This country is a FULL BLOWN dependency state.

This country has become the antithesis of what it was founded as.

Freedom, and Independence.

So how free or independent is anyone when their existence in this world DEPENDS on Government 'benefits' ?

No vary.

Americans have become indentured servants of the state.



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 09:58 PM
link   
This has been known since the time of Plato. Plato's Five Regimes . I have discussed this with friends often and we are always split on whether going by Plato's definition America would be considered an oligarchy or democracy. What say you?



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 08:39 PM
link   
One more point on this theory. Are any of the people who put this warning forth and wish to heed it not rich? If so then the theory is not necessarily true, regardless of age or origin. If one could conceivably gain something they lack from the government (which actually would include the rich- as I've said they get more of the dole than the poor could ever hope for) and yet opposes such initiatives, then to find this quote relevant at all one must imagine their self to be somehow above the majority of the electorate, whether in morality, understanding, patriotism- whatever the motive might be. As soon as it is assumed that the average American would not enjoy being beholden to others, would not willingly see their country ruined, and understands how to balance a checkbook, this theory loses all credibility.

And to answer another posters question- the US at the moment is unquestionably an oligarchy of the rich. And there is the rub, because in that case the present state of affairs can be explained in a much more credible fashion than assuming that the average American is part of a frenzied mob of desperate unthinking peasants. The explanation is that a slim minority whose interests transcend nationality (through multinational corporations) will happily make and break nations on a temporary basis in spite of the will of the basically sensible and decent majority.

No doubt someone will call that a paranoid attempt to shift the blame. A corporate oligarchy? It does sound absurd doesn't it...

by the way, which of these was the first flag approved by congress and which one is the flag of the British East India Company from the same time period again?



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 08:56 PM
link   
For one thing the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Republic with a Democratic influence. The Roman Empire, which was considered a tyranny by the founding fathers of the US, was somewhat model by them. The Roman Empire went through numerous destabilization and reformations, which lasted over 1500 years.




top topics



 
5

log in

join