50 Things About Millennials That Make Corporate America [snip] Its Pants

a reply to: Aazadan
Hello again.

To be quite honest, I doubt I can keep doing this - you quote statistics, I tell you not to let statistics hold you down, and then you quote more statistics. I believe we are at an impasse. Still, I commend you for your fortitude in getting an education without debt - it's not an easy thing to do, and I commend you for it.

I'll comment on a couple more things in this post, then leave the last word to you.

If I'm not average, two others are in my place. Those other two people need opportunity as well. Why am I the only one that deserves to have a meaningful life? Isn't that simply saying I'm entitled to more than them because I'm better? That's not a philosophy I or most others in my generation adhere to.

For the same reason that you are responsible for the meaningfulness of their lives - personal choice. Giving them meaningfulness when they cannot find their own is your choice. Grab it and run with it - you own it. I learned a long time ago that I am not responsible for anyone else's happiness, any more than they are responsible for mine - we are each responsible for our own. No one else can make YOU happy, nor can you force anyone else to be.

Or perhaps you had easy classes? What was the graduation rate of your school and your program? My current program has a graduation rate of 8%, out of every 100 people 70 flunk out in year 1, 10 in year 2, 8 in year 3, and 4 in year 4.

The Program was Physics and Astronomy. I don't recall the graduation rate - that was back in 1993. I never went to grad school - I let life get in the way instead, and am damned glad I did, but the education stopped at a pretty useless point. "Easy" depends on aptitude when discussing a class load. What I found "easy", others struggled with, and some of what they found "easy" was a real bear for me.

More than aptitude, it's also a matter of attitude. For example, I utterly, completely, magnificently, and spectacularly failed high school algebra. It was not "easy" enough - or else it may have been too boring. I dunno, but I failed it with a big crater. Later, I did well through the third level of calculus. What changed? I didn't get any smarter, and mathematical pursuits didn't get any easier. The only thing I can figure out is my attitude changed.

I did not go to university until I was 30 or so. that might have made a difference, too.

See, we're in agreement here if you look at my post college plan. How is that done though? The right legislation (or lack of) needs to be in place in order to create successful companies that can turn things around.

I like you post college plan - I'm pretty sure it will work out for you if you're hard-headed enough, and my guess is that you are. Now, I'm not sure what your field is (if it's already been mentioned, I'm sorry I missed it), so I'm not sure which legislation needs to be in place or needs to be vacated. Therefore I can't figure out what has yet to be done to make it healthy for you, and what has already been done. In general, America is pretty hostile to companies at the moment. It's not a good startup environment if you plan to play by the rules - the deck is stacked in the government's favor at the moment. I don't know what advice to give of direction to point in until I have more data - and may not be able to, even then. I've had a habit of breaking rules all my life, and getting in craploads of trouble for it. This is probably not what we want for you, and something that should be avoided.

Paid internships were removed because corporations didn't want to pay to train a workforce anymore. They went to unpaid internships, they aren't everywhere but they're getting more and more common. The next phase has been implemented as well which is internships you pay for.

This is where I run up against the wall, and have to look for something else. I don't work for free, so they can bite me. It's another of those matters of principle, like my refusal to work at union jobs. Now, at the moment my son is working for free in an internship, but it's not two semesters worth - isn't really measured in hours, either, but rather in production. When he reaches the goals set, he's done, he's got the requisite experience at that point... whether that takes a week or a year.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: nenothtu

How can you be in and out of retirement and homeless dude?

Who's homeless? The rest is easy - you just quit working and go fishing, and when you get tired of being bored, you go back into the workforce. Perhaps calling it "retirement" was a little presumptuous - there are no pensions or pocket watches involved, and never will be - everything else is pretty much the same, though.

Your story changes every post.

Your inability to keep up with it does not constitute a "change" on my part. Maybe you're having trouble because I'm not listing it out chronologically?

What part of "I've lived a long time and done a lot of things, sometimes simultaneously" is confusing to you?

Would it be easier for you to grasp if I rephrased it all and said "I'm a lazy bum who doesn't like holding the same job very long at a time, so I have to hold a lot of them over shorter times"?

originally posted by: nenothtu
To be quite honest, I doubt I can keep doing this - you quote statistics, I tell you not to let statistics hold you down, and then you quote more statistics. I believe we are at an impasse. Still, I commend you for your fortitude in getting an education without debt - it's not an easy thing to do, and I commend you for it.

Part of it is just how I think. I put most things into a math formula. The thing about statistics is that there's always outliers, if we say 50% of people don't have jobs then it can be flipped around to say you just need to work harder than 50% of the people and you'll have one. The people who really take competition to heart like that type of philosophy and the number provided in the statistic doesn't matter, it's just seen as a challenge to overcome. To me I see it as the chance of success, if 90% fail it means 10% succeed but I see personal responsibility as only one facet of that. To take a successful business for example the owner needs to have a good product and a good model but whether or not people shop there is ultimately left up to the customer and the attitude of the employees.

We live in a world where there is just as much dependence on others as on ourselves, a successful business isn't like academic success where you can become valedictorian simply by studying hard or a C student by slacking off (I've done both), even something as simple as comfortable finances require that you have ability and willingness to work but it also requires that you have an employer that recognizes those talents and wants to pay you for them. In a job market like we have now where employers can dictate everything for those with more common skillsets that leaves people under funded.

For the same reason that you are responsible for the meaningfulness of their lives - personal choice. Giving them meaningfulness when they cannot find their own is your choice. Grab it and run with it - you own it. I learned a long time ago that I am not responsible for anyone else's happiness, any more than they are responsible for mine - we are each responsible for our own. No one else can make YOU happy, nor can you force anyone else to be.

I don't think there's responsibility for others happiness, ultimately only they can make themselves happy but I do think that if you choose to live in a society and benefit from that society you share in the responsibility in making sure there is enough opportunity and that wages allow people to be self sufficient.

Now, I'm not sure what your field is (if it's already been mentioned, I'm sorry I missed it), so I'm not sure which legislation needs to be in place or needs to be vacated.

My field is game design, which is basically the lower paid more difficult area of software creation. There's many stories of companies striking it rich off of a good game and the expansion of mobile gaming has made it much easier to be profitable but it's still a pretty high risk field.

When it comes to what legislation, most of it relates to costs of employees beyond their wages and the various issues that plague startups (though I think I've solved a few of those by using a digital office). Honestly, that whole aspect of it isn't something I concern myself with at this point so I don't have all the details worked out. I want a working product first before I worry about how to turn it into a company.... that way I have something to actually pitch to investors... I'm not one for the plan of dazzling people with BS.

originally posted by: AK49erdss
a reply to: MarlinGrace

Yessss, my thoughts exactly. How does someone write a list like this up seriously, without reading it back and realizing "Hmmm people might not buy the notion that me and my generation are the best that ever was, just for existing." I just cant read it with a straight face. But yet again, these are the kids that all got trophies no matter how much they sucked at whatever they were doing.

Yes the trophies are the perfect example. I had forgotten all about that. Great point.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: onequestion

In the next few weeks I'll be interviewing and hiring some additional staff for my department.

With attitudes like the ones expressed in the OP, I'm not surprised that the unemployment level is so high.

a reply to: nenothtu

You said...

On that, we are in complete agreement - which is why I've strategicallly positioned myself where riots won't matter. I've been expecting them for quite a while, and am amazed at the "resiliency" (to try and be delicate) of Americans. Any other country I've been to would have gone up in flames and revolution long ago. They wouldn't have stood for it, and frequently didn't.

To which I respond...

a reply to: nenothtu No why like what is there to be angry about?

To which you respond...

There's always something to be angry about - every generation finds SOMETHING to get pissed off about.

Even Jefferson said that the US should never go 20 years without some kind of revolution, and he's a REALLY old fart!

Now, here you have deflection.


Why won't you answer the question?

originally posted by: olaru12
In IATSE we are paying 22.50 to grips and gaffer just starting out and can't fill all the positions.

7 years ago, the IA in my area was paying $20.20 for arena shows, with more for heads, riggers, and loaders. Some people don't want to work.

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

What is IA.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

What is IA.

The IA or IATSE, is the International Alliance for Theatrical Stage Employees, or :
"The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Moving Picture Technicians, Artists and Allied Crafts of the United States, Its Territories and Canada"
iatse.net...

AKA: someone that can do what they're told use a multi-tool a crescent wrench, flashlight and pen, on the base end. And hugely skilled craftsmen/women on the other. A hefty percentage that have masters degrees or higher. Although many others hold no degree, or any training in the arts besides on the job training.

AKA: A union for backstage workers for the performing arts.

originally posted by: onequestion

Why won't you answer the question?

I reckon it was because I didn't understand the question. I thought you were asking why I think people are going to riot.

I expect riots because the government isn't taking the country in a healthy, sustainable direction. "Freedom" - whatever that means to people now - it's unrecognizable from what it was 30 years ago - is being curtailed more and more every second of every day. I'm frankly surprised that there haven't been ambushes already at "sobriety checkpoints", because, after all, they're nothing more than random "your papers, please" roadblocks that the Nazi Germans and the Soviet Russians had to put up with. They have nothing to do with sobriety, and everything to do with making an excuse for detention and search of subjects the officer has no probable cause to think have done anything wrong. They are nothing more than fishing expeditions. The problem is, they're HERE now, which would have been unthinkable just 30 years ago.

Everywhere you go, someone is either watching or tracking you - even across the internet. Uncle Joe Stalin would have been proud, but even Stalin never dreamed of telling Russians that they HAD to buy a product from a private company, or face punishment. Now we have Obamacare, and, for the first time in my memory, there is a government mandate for private citizens to give their money to private corporations for no good reason at all, simply by virtue of drawing breath. Telling citizens that they can't buy something, because that something is illegal is one thing, telling them they HAVE to buy something, they HAVE to support and throw away their money to a private corporation, just because they have the good fortune to be alive is another thing altogether.

I've never even read of such a thing in the history books. As far as I know, it's never happened before, in the history of the world.

New laws are being passed every day, and it has gotten to the point that the average citizen can not go through a day without breaking a law, usually unknowingly. There are over 600,000 laws on the books - who in the hell can keep track of all of that, and stay within it?

"Homeland Security" (what a joke of a name! Orwell couldn't have named it better) is increasingly militarizing local police forces, and outfitting them as if they were an army. They're making "Fusion centers" to better integrate local law enforcement to the federal level, and in some cases have actually "federalized" them... and even where they haven't, they've made the locals dependent on the federals, in order to keep them close to the vest and under control. Local law enforcement is not supposed to be subservient to the federal government, it's supposed to answer to the local structure, and ultimately the local population. Thirty years ago, it did, and the Federals, such as the FBI, could be told to go pound salt by the locals. Not so any more. From what I'm hearing the jurisdictions have changed, but whether that is merely de facto or actually de jure I don't know.

But no, even that is not enough - the DHS then comes out with a "spy on your neighbors" program, and gives it the happy little name of "see something, say something". The Brownshirts and the KGB ain't got nothing on DHS... and we stand for it.

The federal government has also made masses of people dependent upon them for sustenance. They started that probably almost 50 years ago, and now an entire generation has grown up knowing nothing else, and thinking that's the the way it's supposed to be, and is raising the next generation to believe that. What they have done as a practical matter is bought slaves. When you support someone to the point that they are dependent on you, and can no longer fend for themselves, what you have is a de facto slave. When they depend on you that much, they are at your mercy to do your bidding. It's no different than the slave plantations or the indentured (did you know that an allegedly seven year indenture could be extended to life? I didn't until recently) servitude the Irish and destitute English endured in the 17th and 18th century colonies. It's a step backward, a BIG one, not forward at all.

Helping folks out who need it is one thing, binding them in dependency is another thing altogether. On top of that, they have made local governments, state and county, complicit in that crime by making them administer the support structure. The same sort of thing was going on thirty years ago - as I said, I think it started around 50 years ago - but nowhere NEAR the level we have it at today. It was viewed differently as well. It takes three generations to completely subsume a society, and we are well on our way now.

Right now, we have the very society that the WWII generation and the Cold War generation railed against, fought against, and determined would never take America - yet here it is. It's sad. I look around, and I see EXACTLY the same things here that we were told were "evil" in the Soviet Union, and worse, yet here we are. In 1997, I could buy, legally, an American made rifle in RUSSIA that I could not legally buy here, where it was made - yet the US has always been alleged to be "the champions of freedom", and Russia the "godless commies". It has flipped entirely upside down.

There's plenty more where that came from, but that's enough for now. I've been kind slamming the thread last night, and thought I should lay off this evening, which is why I haven't been here much. This post, already overgrown, will have to do for a starter kit of reasons to get pissed off.

For every high earner that drops into the dependency life we are one more step closer to that totalitarian gov't though.
And it seems that the same people who like the words "personal responsibility" and calling those who can't seem to find the path lazy or dumb or whatever are also the ones that will defend the businesses no matter what! until of course they are the one that ends up dropping into that dependency life and then they might change their tune a bit.
The govt isn't gonna change the path that we are on! They've worked too hard keeping us on this path! But if we don't play they can't keep us on it. I realize that not all businesses can do what I suggest but well there are many that could! Make a concerted effort to ensure that none of your employees have to depend on gov't handouts or debt for their needs! People when possible should be ensuring that their own family and friends aren't in the position w here they have to. Employees could mention every now and then how their earnings aren't meeting the needs and well send out a few resumes once in awhile to give employers a hint that if someone that pays more comes along they'll be leaving!
If the dependency is gonna change well it's up to we t he people.. we are the ones who are the ones who have to change it!
Businesses are perfectly happy knowing that they can pay their employees next t o nothing and still have them coming in healthy and happy the next morning because the taxpayers will foot the bill for their survival and the gov't will be overjoyed at the amount of power they will obtain once the number of of people depending on them reaches a certain point making it possible to ensnare all who are left one way or another!
It's up to us!!!
And yet the "personal responsiblity" people will reject the idea that the paychecks need to go farther to prevent this from happening!
It kind of boggles my mind really!

a reply to: nenothtu

Oh so you admit that there's issues we need to work on before our country falls a part.

Good to know.

I like how you carefully avoided all the economic ones but thatsva start.

a reply to: dawnstar

In order for small business to thrive people have to have the money to spend in the first place. That's why residential construction has been on a massive decline since 08 in everywhere but Texas and North Dakota.

Realistically 30-40-50 million Americans can't move to these two places and find work that's not the solution.

Capitalism hasn't worked it is a failure just like socialism. We need to start looking at s new way of doing things.

With all the new technology in robotics and 3d printing coming out there's just not going to be enough "jobs" for everyone so until they recognize these facts then we're going to be in serious trouble.

a reply to: onequestion

The only portion of capitalism that has 'failed' is the end crying about the 'failure'.

The consumer.

As long as that end continues to fail, there is no system, theoretical or otherwise, that will find success.

All portions of the system (regardless of the type of system) are required for the system to function.

originally posted by: peck420
a reply to: onequestion

The only portion of capitalism that has 'failed' is the end crying about the 'failure'.

Henry Ford that damned socialist/communist/marxist/leftist said that companies should pay the highest wages possible.

Today we pay the lowest possible. What we have now is not capitalism.

a reply to: Aazadan

Exactly.


These people are begging for destruction they want to be wage slaves and not small business owners they don't want to have to take a closer look at the issues they want to blame the people.

It's to much work to change the system learn to deal with it lazy bum!

originally posted by: Aazadan
Henry Ford that damned socialist/communist/marxist/leftist said that companies should pay the highest wages possible.

Today we pay the lowest possible. What we have now is not capitalism.

Henry Ford doubled wages to end the high turnover rate along his production lines.

That's it.

That is also why Ford was never the industry leader in wage increases again.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Aazadan

Exactly.


These people are begging for destruction they want to be wage slaves and not small business owners they don't want to have to take a closer look at the issues they want to blame the people.

It's to much work to change the system learn to deal with it lazy bum!

Yea, sure.

That is why we have so many socialist and communist economies dominating the global environment.

The destruction that was wrought by those follies has, unfortunately, already been forgotten.

originally posted by: dawnstar

And it seems that the same people who like the words "personal responsibility" and calling those who can't seem to find the path lazy or dumb or whatever are also the ones that will defend the businesses no matter what! until of course they are the one that ends up dropping into that dependency life and then they might change their tune a bit.

If they fall into dependency lifestyle, they were doing their personal responsibility wrong - they gave it to someone else, and that kinda depersonalizes it. They need to try again.

The govt isn't gonna change the path that we are on!

No one is. There is no bull that leads the herd - we are just sort of meandering aimlessly, being pushed by the average and mediocre. There is no leader, no driver at the wheel, so no one is going to change the direction we are averagely meandering in.

And yet the "personal responsiblity" people will reject the idea that the paychecks need to go farther to prevent this from happening!

I guess I'm one of them - from what I've seen over the years, when the check increases, all of the expenditures do, too, because everyone else is whining for a bigger check, too, and so prices get driven up across the board. People are all too happy to wag their tails when they get a bigger check, so happy, in fact, that they fail to comprehend that if everyone else is getting a bigger check, too, then they are back at square one, and didn't really get a bigger check at all - the length of the line with the abstract number on it increased, and that was all.

It didn't improve anything at all.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: nenothtu

Oh so you admit that there's issues we need to work on before our country falls a part.

Good to know.

"Admit"? You've been here nearly as long as I, yet have never ran across any of my nearly 14,000 posts before? Maybe we just don't hang out in the same forums usually. If you had ran across me before, you would know that I rant and rave continually about those "issues". Don't believe me again? Check my posting history.

You would also know that I said no such thing - there is not a thing in this world that will prevent this country from falling apart at this point. There is no amount of effort that will pull it back out of the crapper. It is too far gone, it is doomed to go the way of the Roman Empire, and the barbarians are already at the gates of Rome.

I like how you carefully avoided all the economic ones but thatsva start.

Well, hell! I didn't "avoid" Jack Crap. I gave you the opportunity to tell me what you wanted me to say, what you wanted to hear! Not my problem if you failed to take advantage of that, and left me to say what I really believe!

The economy doesn't mean much to me in the grand scheme of things - what good is a fat paycheck in a slave society? I have different priorities than you, it appears. I would fix different things first, start in a different place, if they were still fixable.