50 Things About Millennials That Make Corporate America [snip] Its Pants

originally posted by: nenothtu
"Resources" are not just handed out to folks, so I'm not surprised that there aren't any for the "average" American - don't be average.

If we break it into 3 groups, below average, average, and above average you'll have 66.67% of the population in either the average or below average category. It's easy to say don't be average but 2 out of every 3 people by definition are going to be at best average... if everyone improves and is competent some are still going to be average and some are still going to be below average.

Average people, and even below average people need to be able to survive and have decent lives as well.

a reply to: nenothtu

Ahhh you were in the military...

a reply to: Aazadan

No it doesn't matter if the world around you is burning as long as you have your mansion!

Shoulda done better for yourselves!

And the "resources" remain as unknown variables....

I wonder what those resources actually are... If they aren't banknooans or educations?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: nenothtu

Ahhh you were in the military...

And that's a bad thing?

Just wondering.

originally posted by: TDawgRex

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: nenothtu

Ahhh you were in the military...

And that's a bad thing?

Just wondering.

However that one was on purpose.

As both my parents were militiary yet had no malicious intent towards humanity, just doing what they thought was right.

a reply to: TDawgRex

No. God please.

Makes sense when he talks about retirement and wage stagnation.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: nenothtu

That doesn't validate any of your positions that's just your story the issue are bigger then that.

It validates that there are bumps along the road, and you're going to hit some of them if you ever expect to get anywhere.

That's one of them there "facts of life".

a reply to: nenothtu

Ugh.

Hi, I joined ats just to add my thoughts in this topic, as a millennial I understand the feelings from both directions of this topic. From the older generations they want to see the younger generation man up and fall into place (get off the couch and drop the woe is me act). From the millennial point of view it's more anger derived from a realization that despite the educations that they had received. None of it amounted to anything.

In my current situation I've worked in the same (factory) position for the past six years (that I was lucky enough to land when the economy was still doing alright) and I haven't moved from the bottom, even despite obtaining my degree and now currently working on another, I know as a fact that I've hit the glass ceiling. Yet, I know i'm the lucky one. Many people in my age group can't even land an entry level job. I feel even worse for the ones who didn't have a support system to help them out as they started out after HS. Who are either currently homeless, in extreme poverty, or in prison.

Yet what really makes me worried is that as populations rise, and more jobs are being driven overseas, the generations following the millennial generations will have it even worse.

a reply to: catface

There's really not a lot of entry level jobs available.

That's a major part of the problem. Training people for a position and apprenticeships have ceased to exist. You need experience to get the job and they cut out having to train people because there is so many people who already have the training that its not necessary.

This is an indicator that things aren't growing, during a growth cycle there wouldn't be enough people.

a reply to: onequestion

Yes, it is a shame. I often find myself training people who already have 20+yrs experience in my particular industry. It's great to get some different perspectives of thought in the job, but I'd really love to teach someone from scratch for a change, like what was provided for me by my supervisor.

Perhaps if I ever get lucky enough I can start up my own company!

originally posted by: Aazadan

Paying back 150% of what you borrowed is low. Student loans these days are averaging closer to 400%.

Like I said, I don't know what the credit market is like these days, since I don't deal with it any more. Once upon a time I did, and had excellent credit. Could get anything that I wanted on a signature, bought cars on credit cards, etc. So one fine morning my wife (first wife, three exes ago) decided she wanted a house, so we went down to the house shop and I bought one. I did an amortization on it some time later, and realized that I should have done it BEFORE hand, because I was going to wind up paying about twice the price of the house, which was overpriced to begin with. That was the beginning of the end for me and credit (and, incidentally, me and that wife). Two years later I destroyed the last card, and by then, the little missus had a lot less interest in me since I wasn't sprouting money any more, so I ditched her, too, and left her the house... and the payments. Seemed fair to me.

As far as being encouraged to take loans how many people have said goto college, learn skills, and get a career? It's been instilled in my generation from grade school.

Mine too. My dear old dad had a measured IQ of 194, yet quit school in the seventh grade, and always regretted that. So he hammered into me the importance of an education. What he DIDN'T say was "go into hyper debt to get one". Paying back 4X what you borrow qualifies as hyper-debt to me. See, there's a difference between getting an education and getting fleeced (although that can be an education in itself!).

It doesn't matter who they're intended for, those are the jobs we have available. If it's not McDonalds it's data entry, or insurance sales, a few end up in customer service. There are no real jobs for us to do, that's why the country has a real unemployment rate of 37% and why it's over 50% among my generation.

I don't believe those are the only jobs available, at all, but let's run with it as if it were factual. What you've got to do in that case is live for now - take the job, eat, and plot and plan like a schemin' demon to get a better one first chance you get - then make the chance.

The rest, the "percents", is just statisitics. As I said before, don't be a statisitc. Statistics are what people use to justify failure - DO NOT accept failure. That involves not quoting statistics to yourself to make yourself feel better. You're not supposed to feel better, you're supposed to succeed in whatever plans you generate.

First of all didn't you just get done typing out that you paid off your student loans? Now you're saying you still have them.

No. What I said was "I figured out a way to deal with it after I'd paid 150% of what I borrowed" - which was a bit more than I had agreed to, before they slipped the rate on me unilaterally. I lived up to my end of the bargain, and then some, but I didn't pay off what they claimed I owed. They can wait for the rest until hell freezes over.

Second of all, there is no getting out of paying them.

Yeah. Maybe not for you. That's what THEY think, too. It really depends on how done you are with them.

If a payment gets missed, the payments more than double, the interest rate skyrockets, and the amount you have to pay back goes way up as well. Defaulting on a student loan takes you from repaying for the rest of your life to being guaranteed that everything you earn for the rest of your life will be confiscated at death to only partially repay a debt.

Tell me about it. What do I care what they take when I'm dead? There is a key, right there in what you said, but I'll leave you to find it on your own, if you want it bad enough.

Can you even begin to fathom the idea that everything your generation earns for their entire lives is simply going to be confiscated? There is no leaving anything to our children or other family members. Your generation is upset about a 50% estate tax, my generation is looking at an effective 100% estate tax.

You're still young. Start figuring out the solution to that puzzle for yourself now. I've already got my solution to it - I care not a bit in the world about estate taxes. What's 50% of nothing?

If you paid cash for a home, you clearly were able to save up that cash in the first place. In your last post you claimed you didn't save. It's one or the other, you either used credit or you used cash.

Those came out of a single paycheck. it was a big check, pay for nearly a year. Couldn't spend it where I was, but man did I make up for lost time when I got home! Three months later, I was broke again. On top of that, as I said before, I set my sights on a home, not an investment, and got it dirt cheap.

Then what should we have done? Not learned any job skills?

Avoid credit like the plague - because it IS the plague. Don't feed the beast, then complain that it bit you because you were too close to it's teeth.

My son is learning job skills, and not going into debt to do it. It can be done. He's doing an internship right now, and thanks to Obama, there are no more paid internships, so he's working another job to eat and survive. His wife is also working, which helps a lot. She'll reap the benefits of that a bit later, but for now it's the nose to the grindstone. It helps immensely to pull as a team.

You paid those rates at a time when returns for savings also matched those loan interest rates. These days it's more like 10% interest in a loan you take but 0.25% in interest on your savings.

That's not how I remember it, but interest in savings HAS dropped a lot, it appears. Interest on savings at the time ran around 2%, 3% if you could get a really good deal, and interest on borrowing was, for me, around 14%. I have no idea what the interest on savings was when debt climbed to 18% and I quit messing with debt, because by then I knew that I had no interest in saving anything.

We don't get raises these days. There's that little thing called wage stagnation. Our wages are going backwards, I could take myself as an example. I had more purchasing power at 18 than I do now at 30 and by a very significant amount. I could even go back just a couple years. I had more purchasing power at 25 than I do now. Wages go up at roughly 2% per year while the cost of goods is increasing at an average 10%, the cost of necessities like food is at 22% this year. Overall that means our wages are going down 8% every single year.

I dunno about that, either. The last wage job I had was several months ago. I got an 11 cent raise, which was an insult, and I don't work it any more. I guess it must be like that all over, because I was working two jobs at that point, and one was an 11 cent/hr raise, the other 12 cents/hr, and I was told not to tell anyone at work about it, because that was the highest raise they'd given out. I don't work either place any more. that's just insulting. based on that, I have no reason to doubt what you're saying - all I can say is don't settle for it.

You plot and you plan like a schemin' demon, and you bail just as soon as you've made your next chance. the two percent thing - that's "on average". Don't be average. Don't be a statistic.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: gentledissident

Oh they can't get me down I detest their arrogance and I'm willing to go to war with them.

Oh No! That's NOT what you want to do!

Well, maybe you do, or at least think you do.

Remember, you may have youth and speed, but we've got experience and low, animal cunning!

You're using an iPad? And complaining about the corporate grind?

a reply to: nenothtu

I'm not on the corporate grind I had a great job working for a company about to get a promotion to supervisor and quit because I hated the backstabbing selfish environment.

I am a carpenter.

Massive difference.

what your going to see is riots, think ferguson.


And I stand for what I believe in to a fault. I'd be homeless and have been before I accept bull#.

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: nenothtu

I'm thinking that the issue at hand is that the OP and those who support him/her realizes they screwed up and now regret it. And are just plain jealous of us neanderthals who have actually made it.

Supposed higher education requires fat cash...and now once the bills are starting to come in...they don't want to pay for it.

Well, to be fair, in my case "making it" isn't what it is for a lot of other folks. I set my sights a bit lower, decided I'd rather be happy than rich, and went after that goal.

I think perhaps a core problem is that there are some, many in fact, whose reach exceeds their grasp (that factor runs across generations, I believe). They want more than they need, and if they DO get it, they aren't happy yet, and so want MORE than they have, and MUCH more than they need. They never learned to be happy in a hovel, and so will never be happy - until they learn to be.

originally posted by: nenothtu
Remember, you may have youth and speed, but we've got experience and low, animal cunning!

What, are you speaking on behalf of older people?

Talk to us in about 20 years... It may be too bad history marches forward and not backwards but that's the way it works.

If I were you I'd be giving the newer generations advice on how to handle to handle even newer generations when we start getting older, if you have any such advice that you'd be able to give. But maybe I missed something.

The ides of change are subtle in momentum, but by the time they become noticeable, great change has already occurred.
The need not only justifies the means, but creates it as well. One of the great lessons in History that somehow always seems to surprise us.

originally posted by: Aazadan

A couple pages back I posted a short example providing the cost of goods of a few different items and how long it takes one to work in order to purchase them. I gave three datapoints, 1967, 1979, and 2013. Here it's just a couple pages back on the thread. Read that and you'll have the synopsis of wage stagnation.

I read it, and see that you are speaking in terms of averages and statistics there, too. I've already said my piece about "average" and "statistics". But thank you for explaining what you mean by wage stagnation.

If you're not in a position to discuss economics you're not in a position to discuss politics as it's heavily entwined with financing which is accomplished through wages and taxation.

It appears that "politics" mean different things to the two of us. I spent an inordinate amount of time during my misspent youth fighting folks who insisted on mixing the two, trying to conflate a political system with an economic one. They (apparently) ultimately failed, but sure put a hurt on their own people while they were riding.

I thought that now, in my doddering old age, the fight was against people who confuse politics with religion and try to conflate the two, but maybe not.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: nenothtu
"Resources" are not just handed out to folks, so I'm not surprised that there aren't any for the "average" American - don't be average.

If we break it into 3 groups, below average, average, and above average you'll have 66.67% of the population in either the average or below average category. It's easy to say don't be average but 2 out of every 3 people by definition are going to be at best average... if everyone improves and is competent some are still going to be average and some are still going to be below average.

Average people, and even below average people need to be able to survive and have decent lives as well.

Agreed - now how does that impact YOU, and your quest for meaningful work?

Don't be average.

a reply to: nenothtu

It's a joke that you don't understand how political decisions affect economy?

If the war in Iraq free? Is the war on drugs free? Is the judicial system free?

Every choice we make has an economic impact.

Your out of your league man.