Largest Climate March in history on 09/21 in NYC to put pressure on world leaders at UN Climate Summ

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Now isn't it just telling that you didn't read the article? The show, Years of Living Dangerously, was looking to hire people to pass out flyers. They weren't paying anyone to protest.

LOL, yeah ok, and doctors aren't paid by pharmaceutical companies to push their drugs, oh, and politicians aren't paid by lobbyist and corporate interests to push their agendas and teachers teach critical thinking rather than indoctrination and parroting techniques. LOL again.

Protesting this crap, any crap, FEEDS THE MACHINE. It allows the controllers of THE MACHINE to suck more money/value out of your pocket, purse or life via consensus driven paradigm shifts in what is acknowledged as reality. This is how the Delphi Technique works, read up on it and while you're at it, look up Georg Hegel and the Hegelian Dialectic.

Rather than waste the energy in protesting, be personally responsible and act accordingly, be the change you want to see, not some whiny little whatever. Protesting isn't going to change the climate because it's not going to stop corporations from continuing to pollute the planet, rape resources and exploit/extort everyone.

BTW, when was the last time protesters um, stopped police violence, reduced taxes, stopped a war, stopped corporations from lobbying, stopped a government from making bad laws, increased your standard of living, etc.? Protesting doesn't do sh**t except play into the hands of those who want to screw you even harder and darlin', they ain't gonna kiss you or hand you a tube of KY before they f**k you, but they sure will make you think you deserve it.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
This is utter crock.

The vast majority of people were legitimate marchers. The turnout was huge and represented a diverse group of people. The turnout even had people fly in from other countries, as climate change is a global issue.

Yes, we cannot change the fact climate change is occurring now based on 200 years of development. However, what is being advocated is keeping the change to two degrees celsius globally. The current "business as usual" trajectory will result in 5-7 degrees, which will most likely have catastrophic effects.

This is why action is called "climate change mitigation," i.e. mitigating the severity of the change and hence consequences. This is why leaders across the globe and UN are meeting, ambitious commitments and actions need to be made NOW to achieve that.

We all need to look at the needs of our grandchildren, as they will be the ones living through the middle of the consequences after 2050.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
There is a piece up at WUWT about a add in Craigs list for volunteers for the march that pays $50.00 .I wonder as another comment er had said ,"how is it considered volunteering when they pay you . wattsupwiththat.com... a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Now isn't that just telling, professional PC libtard protestors! I guess some management is going on there to "pump up the volume." PC libtards leading PC libtards, kind of like the blonde leading the blonde LOL. The problem is the crap these meat puppets create filters down to all of us that don't want to deal with their crap and really neither do they once they find out what they have done and how they have been used. It seems though that people keep supporting this farce because it's just too hard to admit they were wrong, or maybe it's pride. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt ;-)

It's too late anyway. I realize it's good to hope and dream and believe in something, but these people really have to take their blinders off and realize that IF we as a species are to blame (which I don't believe), then the physical momentum of what was started 300 years ago is not going to be stopped. I would guess that since the beginning of the industrial revolution, 10% of the total pollution occurred prior to 1920. The last 100 years or so would account for the other 90%. When that 90% catches up with us, there will be no turning back because along with the pollution, corporations have destroyed the natural scrubbers through deforestation and of course the destruction of the oceans. If it's the sun and the nebula we are passing through that is creating the problem (which I believe it is), we can't stop that either.

Our efforts would amount to paying trillions of dollars in taxes for a piece of paper to hold up in the air to stop a hurricane. Not going to happen.

Cheers - Dave

The vast majority huh? Were you there taking names and writing down reasons, FOR EVERYONE? LOL. Don't most people go to these things to party and hook-up, I mean seriously, haven't we all seen the videos?

C'mon, show a little common sense here. Do you really believe in this fairy tale? That somehow, by throwing extra money at governments that it's going to fix the planet/solar system? If you do, I feel very sorry for you because you have bought the entire lie, obviously without a single question being answered or even brought to bear. Seems to me like complete mental capitulation.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Cynic

I liked how filthy they left the already dirty NYC.

Pretty bad when their actions left NYC even more disgusting and littered then what it is on a daily basis.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I do love the statement of "People fly in from other countries"....

Nothing like contributing to the very thing you are bemoaning, and angrily marching for it....er I mean against it...Uhh, go ask DiCaprio how his private jet ride was.

a reply to: amazing

I guess you took your car.
What do you expect governments to do about the problem then? Unless you think feel good accords which are subsequently ignored or carbon taxes that cripple the economy but enrich said governments will automatically remove green house gases from the atmosphere.
I'm sorry to disillusion you but thousands of eco-weenies marching on a Sunday afternoon wont do anything either.

a reply to: macman

I watch the news about that last night, soo much for protesting about saving the planet and pollution, this tells you exactly whom were most of the so call "protesters" and their truth intentions about protesting.

Is always money to be made in the great US as long as is people that fall for the deceptions.

a reply to: macman

When big money names are linked to the so call "march" you know how well the march was planned.

Al gore, Kerry and Sorros

Money talks and BS "march" on Wall Street.

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: amazing

I guess you took your car.
What do you expect governments to do about the problem then? Unless you think feel good accords which are subsequently ignored or carbon taxes that cripple the economy but enrich said governments will automatically remove green house gases from the atmosphere.
I'm sorry to disillusion you but thousands of eco-weenies marching on a Sunday afternoon wont do anything either.

We can have a pretty good effect. Better pollution laws and more enforcement of current laws. Higher standards and restrictions. We know that stuff has huge effects not just on greenhouse gasses but on smog and clean air. Higher MPG standards. We need that. We have the technology to do that. Take away some laws...making it easier for people to put solar panels on their houses and make it easier for start up companies like Tesla to do business. Don't coddle the old guard like, Ford-BP-Texaco-Standard Oil-Chevrolet- etc. Make it easier to put up Wind Farms.

a reply to: amazing

Drop by Southern Ontario and ask the farmers and residents close to our wasteful billion dollar wind turbines what they think before you ask about turbines. You may just change your tune.

Solar farms are extremely expensive but are somewhat reliable.

I would welcome any government that provided 100% financing to retrofit homes and offices with solar panels and tied them into the power grid. If a carbon tax was implemented to accomplish such a feat then I think people could get behind it since the corresponding reductions in energy use could help to offset it.

Unfortunately this would probably bankrupt the utility companies and result in exorbitant increases in net electricity charges to offset the losses.

Until I see such a commitment to the cause, then I stand by my original assessment of the situation at hand.

originally posted by: marg6043
Interesting, beside the native Americans telling their concern about what has been done to their lands, that is all legit and real, In the weather channel they admitted that about 300 groups of alternative fuels "pushers", I man proponents were part of the mass "parade" organization.

Yeah, 300 groups eagle to catch on the "global warming" pandemic and they don't care if the funding to their "ideas" to "save the world" means taxing and using tax payers dollars for it.

Have fun people

Is always money to be made.

The problem with your view is that there were more than 1500 groups total.

And yes, alternative non-fossil fuel based energy is a major component of "de-coupling" our economy from fossil fuels. Even all of the energy companies admit this now. As in, the oil and coal companies.

So, it absolutely makes sense that a portion of people there would be either working for or advocating alternative energy.

Common sense.....

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: amazing

Drop by Southern Ontario and ask the farmers and residents close to our wasteful billion dollar wind turbines what they think before you ask about turbines. You may just change your tune.

Solar farms are extremely expensive but are somewhat reliable.

I would welcome any government that provided 100% financing to retrofit homes and offices with solar panels and tied them into the power grid. If a carbon tax was implemented to accomplish such a feat then I think people could get behind it since the corresponding reductions in energy use could help to offset it.

Unfortunately this would probably bankrupt the utility companies and result in exorbitant increases in net electricity charges to offset the losses.

Until I see such a commitment to the cause, then I stand by my original assessment of the situation at hand.

I see what your saying and I can get behind everything you say. However, when you are so negative to anyone that has an opposing view to yours or your so negative against anyone who tries to do anything for the environment or who thinks that the thousands of scientists that push the theory of man made global warming...You know that there is some good science...and some credible scientists on this? You know that Germany and other countries are so far ahead of the US on renewable energy...mainly because their governments back it. It's not all doom and gloom.

I was always taught to keep fighting for what is right until I'm dead. Sounds like you've already given up. I'll never give up. I'm not a coward or a quitter. I won't roll over. I hope one day you'll stand up as well.

It is projected that solar will cross over into full competitive costing/pricing etc in the next several years. IN fact, some economists have found that if you take away all of the fossil fuel subsidies AND environmental externalities of fossil fuels, solar already IS cost-competitive.

I like and appreciate your respectful response.

However, I think that if you read much of the literature and the whole range of people involved in this movement, from energy companies to scientists to NGOs and governments, you would see that they address many different issues and also there is a whole menu of options to be had.

The utilities are not going to go away.

In fact, here in the US many have near monopolies over whole regions, which in no way is free market, and also extremely outdated infrastructure, grid, and so on. They will remain but they aren't exactly encouraging competition, capitalism, or a range of energy sources.

Try out this blog. My former professor, who is the director of a graduate energy program here at Columbia, also is a business man and investor. He has a very middle of the road, business friendly, science based approach.

Travis Bradford:

prometheus.org...

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: amazing

Drop by Southern Ontario and ask the farmers and residents close to our wasteful billion dollar wind turbines what they think before you ask about turbines. You may just change your tune.

Solar farms are extremely expensive but are somewhat reliable.

I would welcome any government that provided 100% financing to retrofit homes and offices with solar panels and tied them into the power grid. If a carbon tax was implemented to accomplish such a feat then I think people could get behind it since the corresponding reductions in energy use could help to offset it.

Unfortunately this would probably bankrupt the utility companies and result in exorbitant increases in net electricity charges to offset the losses.

Until I see such a commitment to the cause, then I stand by my original assessment of the situation at hand.

I can't have a conversation with you when you are speaking in such superficial and mal-informed generalities and stereotypes.

Not all people globally that are for fighting global warming are for a carbon tax. That alone destroys your argument.

Second, speaking in terms of socialism is ridiculous and right out of Glenn Beck or Limbaugh's personal prayer journal. It isn't worthy of discussion.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
No, that is also a blanket generality.

There are number of solutions, ranging from private sector to government.

As to the international community, yes, governments and multi-lateral orgs have to and are addressing it. What do you think, that San Francisco or Chevron are going to magically address a global challenge?

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Calling the AGW folks Socialist/Communists might be imprecise, but it is not illogical.

The solutions to AGW are all governmentally based. That means progressive by definition, because the progressives use government to solve all of their problems.

Progressive, collectivist, communist, socialist are all more the same than different. They are like different types of secular Christianity. Holy book and everything.

A person marching for a governmental solution to, anything, is a socialist collectivist progressive.

Non-socialists are too alarmed by the Carbon Tax to participate in a Global Warming march.

Why don't collectivists totalitarians admit that they are collectivist totalitarians?

Meanwhile, you guys have no problem with big energy, military, and industrial concerns funding conservative movements, people like Chevron, or Koch industries.

You see, of course people are going to fund things.

Then problem is, you are using another straw man argument to dismiss the problem of climate change. As a person who knows the science and works in areas related, it's difficult to respect your own cognitive dissonance.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: macman

When big money names are linked to the so call "march" you know how well the march was planned.

Al gore, Kerry and Sorros

Money talks and BS "march" on Wall Street.

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: amazing

I guess you took your car.
What do you expect governments to do about the problem then? Unless you think feel good accords which are subsequently ignored or carbon taxes that cripple the economy but enrich said governments will automatically remove green house gases from the atmosphere.
I'm sorry to disillusion you but thousands of eco-weenies marching on a Sunday afternoon wont do anything either.

Sorry to tell you, but there were world leaders there at the march. And, one mile away world leaders are meeting as we speak on...........

THE CLIMATE.

You guys are getting left behind the times and science.

It shows that even the powerful and elite are getting smart.

Seriously, even CHEVRON and SHELL now admit in their publications that we have to increase the proportion of alternative energy sources in the mix. They even admit now that climate change is real.

Those who have been fighting it the whole time who have a negative incentive to admit it, can no longer deny it anymore.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
I have no idea what to think of this...

Rockefellers turn their backs on oil

The wealthy American oil family Rockefeller puts no more money in fossil fuels. Together with with other organizations The Rockefellers are cutting interests with $ 50 billion, because they see no future in the oil and coal industries anymore.

The Rockefellers have joined a campaign in which more than 800 investors are involved. These include universities, cities, churches and health organizations.

"If John were alive today, he would invest in clean energy," say the descendants of John D. Rockefeller, whose as an oil pioneer earned billions.

Source

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: amazing

Drop by Southern Ontario and ask the farmers and residents close to our wasteful billion dollar wind turbines what they think before you ask about turbines. You may just change your tune.

Solar farms are extremely expensive but are somewhat reliable.

I would welcome any government that provided 100% financing to retrofit homes and offices with solar panels and tied them into the power grid. If a carbon tax was implemented to accomplish such a feat then I think people could get behind it since the corresponding reductions in energy use could help to offset it.

Unfortunately this would probably bankrupt the utility companies and result in exorbitant increases in net electricity charges to offset the losses.

Until I see such a commitment to the cause, then I stand by my original assessment of the situation at hand.

I see what your saying and I can get behind everything you say. However, when you are so negative to anyone that has an opposing view to yours or your so negative against anyone who tries to do anything for the environment or who thinks that the thousands of scientists that push the theory of man made global warming...You know that there is some good science...and some credible scientists on this? You know that Germany and other countries are so far ahead of the US on renewable energy...mainly because their governments back it. It's not all doom and gloom.

I was always taught to keep fighting for what is right until I'm dead. Sounds like you've already given up. I'll never give up. I'm not a coward or a quitter. I won't roll over. I hope one day you'll stand up as well.

I agree. The environmental and climate issues are very real and will most definitely begin affecting the global system, including economics and agriculture, more and more until the issue is catastrophic and THEN people will wake up and stop making excuses.

Yes, finding a comprehensive solution to all of this is very challenging, as there are so many variables to address, from personal behaviors to global economy. However, that does not allow us as adults to shirk our responsibility and either dismiss all of the scientific evidence for our environmental issues or use ad hominem or fallacious attacks on those who are trying to do something about it.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Occurs, thanks for the update on the numbers of "interest groups", the protest was a very organized endeavor, the price tag, I can only imagine, been the protesters geared to target Wall street, where most of the biggest financial investment houses are, (investing our retirement and government accounts on "goodies"), this was a well deliberated way to ask for money.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: amazing

I guess you took your car.
What do you expect governments to do about the problem then? Unless you think feel good accords which are subsequently ignored or carbon taxes that cripple the economy but enrich said governments will automatically remove green house gases from the atmosphere.
I'm sorry to disillusion you but thousands of eco-weenies marching on a Sunday afternoon wont do anything either.

Sorry to tell you, but there were world leaders there at the march. And, one mile away world leaders are meeting as we speak on...........

THE CLIMATE.

You guys are getting left behind the times and science.

President Obama at the high-level United Nations Climate Summit TODAY: ""The climate is changing faster that our actions to address it. The alarm bells keep ringing. Our citizens keep marching. We cannot pretend that we don't hear them, and we have to answer their call.
We cannot burden our children and their children to a future that is beyond their capacity to repair."

Almen. There it is, and the same sentiment goes for all environmental issues. Protecting the environment IS responsible. It IS conservative. It IS moral and ethical. Not doing so is the opposite and will harm future generations, including our own lineages.

Quetzalcoatl14:

Rant much?

I have lived long enough to be able to live and let live. My experience also allows me to address these issues in a forthright and direct manner. You are welcome to your opinions and I respect them. I don't have to agree with them, just respect them.

Marching in the streets on a Sunday afternoon will accomplish as little as the questionable leadership of the UN several blocks away. It just wont matter. Climate Change is real, of that I think no one has any doubt. It is a natural occurrence and as such is out of our control. The billions of years of fossil records bear this out. Unless of course you think that we marched in the streets then as well.....

To think otherwise is delusional and totally arrogant.

Rational enough, if not frank enough for you?