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Putting an 18 year old into 120k debt should be considered criminal

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posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:18 PM
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a reply to: georgezip

why don't you be a little imaginative and come up with an idea.

Do you not have an opinion about the cost of the education system right now?




edit on 9/20/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: TurtleSmacker
a reply to: onequestion



I still say responsibility for putting more debt on your plate than you can handle ultimately falls to the 18yr old seeking the loan, it's his or her job to fix his debt problems. Certainly not the taxpayer.


18 year olds are sold the dream that once they graduate with a degree, they'll make a lot of money so taking on the debt doesn't seem like a problem.

When they graduate, reality finally hits them but it's too late.

You're addressing the issue with the luxury of hindsight. 18 year olds don't have that advantage.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:29 PM
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Adult brains don't fully mature till their 25 years old. We have 18 year olds making financial decisions that will impact their lives well into their later years... I do believe adults 18 year olds are capable of making sound decisions, but there's definitely a sizable group that are chasing dreams with their majors that aren't realistic today... Here is where we need educators/counselors/etc. to step in and hopefully point these students in the right direction.... I've known quite a few college recruiters in my day and unfortunately, they don't always have the students best interest at heart. If anything, the student is typically a commission (in a way) where they will do whatever it takes to get them enrolled. This type of system has it's obvious flaws because a recruiter (similar to the military) will tell you what you want to hear and will play right off the sentences that come out of your mouth... What we need is more people helping these young adults through the process, giving them sound/legit advice, NOT working towards company enrollment quotas, but instead what's the BEST thing for the student, so we are setting them up for success and not failure when they graduate...
edit on 20-9-2014 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: Answer

No they have this false notion that when they were 18 they had full knowledge of everything they were doing.

The fact is 18 year olds in the modern world are still children that require proper guidance probably until they are inlate 20's and even fully grown adults still seek peer guidance from time to time.

They are putting themselves on a pedestal. Everyone needs help sometimes.
edit on 9/20/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:33 PM
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LOL,

Here is the deal... The Real deal that nobody wants to tell you because they preach "do what you want, what makes you happy"! LOL. DO NOT go to college unless you are going to have a job that actually PAYS you idiots!

Pharmacist, Doctor, Nurse, Chemical Engineer, Dentist, etc.

Any fool who is going 30k to 100k in debt for an eventual job that pays 30k or less is a total IDIOT.

Business, Marketing, Education, Journalism, General Studies, "The Arts" usually do not pay (rare exceptions). Then you can work your $12 and hour job and pay back 10's of thousands of debt because you and most probably your parents are IDIOTS for not telling you the truth or they are oblivious to reality.

Do not go to school unless you are going for something that pays unless your employer is giving you tuition reimbursement.

Go get a CCNP or CCIE certification and start making 50-100k in a couple years. It is a hell of allot less expensive, less time and 95% chance or better to make lots of money unless you are a total buffon.
edit on 20-9-2014 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:33 PM
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originally posted by: jhn7537
Adult brains don't fully mature till their 25 years old. We have 18 year olds making financial decisions that will impact their lives well into their later years... I do believe adults 18 year olds are capable of making sound decisions, but there's definitely a sizable group that are chasing dreams with their majors that aren't realistic today... Here is where we need educators/counselors/etc. to step in and hopefully point these students in the right direction.... I've known quite a few college recruiters in my day and unfortunately, they don't always have the students best interest at heart. If anything, the student is typically a commission (in a way) where they will do whatever it takes to get them enrolled. This type of system has it's obvious flaws because a recruiter (similar to the military) will tell you what you want to hear and will play right of the sentences that come out of your mouth... What we need is more people helping these young adults through the process, giving them sound/legit advice, NOT working towards company enrollment quotas, but instead what's the BEST thing for the student, so we are setting them up for success and not failure when they graduate...


Thank you for acknowledging this simple fact. It's like beating your head against a wall.

Maybe a cataclysm is needed after all.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: infolurker

Please explain to me when and how you acquired this perspective?

Was this your perspective at 15 when you were choosing what program you wanted to go I to and for what colleges to apply to?

My best guess... Probably not.

This is more likely knowledge you've acquired recently after analysis and years of working In the market.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

I was lucky enough to be the youngest of 5 kids, so I understood the process that they all went through at a early age. I also saw what worked and what didn't work... Which was one of the KEY reasons why I went to a Community College for my first two years, because I saw my brother flunk out his freshman year from partying and I didn't want to go down that same road with SO many distractions...

Another thing people don't really discuss is that Freshman year is typically (i understand that some kids do boarding school, but its a small fraction of the overall population) a VERY challenging year for students, and CAN be EXTREMELY costly, both academically and financially speaking. Meaning, you are living on your own for the first time, you are given all this new found freedom, you are thrown into an environment that promotes drinking/partying/sex over studying and you need to try to find a way to make it all work, while staying at a passing grade level... So many kids learn expensive lessons their freshman year when they spend all that money on tuition, flunk out, and have a nice big bill staring back at them (with NO Degree yet)...
edit on 20-9-2014 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: jhn7537

Your right I agree and that's another issue that needs mainstream attention. The culture in college right now is bad and it's about partying.

I'm the oldest so I had the opportunity to have all the trial and error fro. My parents. So we have to Uniquely different experiences that are large indicators in the way things turned out. Like you my younger sister has seen all her older brothers mistakes and is also making better choices.

It's funny how it works isn't it?
edit on 9/20/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

Correct.

Continuing education is a racket. A muti-billion dollar industry that employs 10's of thousands of instructors to teach useless classes for useless credits for useless degree papers to hang on a wall because they are worth almost nothing to most employers unless specialized (Law, Accounting, Healthcare, Engineer, etc.).

6 classes, 6 tests... CCNP certified, start making 50k'ish within a couple of years as entry level will be high to mid 40's tops. CCNA (lower 2 tests) will get you entry level into a Network Ops Center or field position in the 30's usually depending on area.
edit on 20-9-2014 by infolurker because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-9-2014 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:43 PM
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Personal responsibility??? What a joke. What do americans know of personal responsibility? It always tickles me when right wingers talk about this. The vast majority of americans, rich and poor, live the life of "luxury" they have, with iphones, cars, large TV's, relatively cheap gas, all on the backs of nations that they have bombed or raped for natural resources, or export sweat shops and slave labor to. So apparently, personal responsibility means "whatever you can legally steal or exploit". Now this paradigm is being focused on our own people.....big surprise there.

All that being an aside.....to the people who "did it myself in my day"....GUESS WHAT? Its not your day anymore. According to the national department of labor, last month there were 90,000,000 americans of working age not employed or looking for work. Oh, and another 10,000,000 that were looking for work (ie our statistic of 6% unemployment). Taken together, that means that fully 1/3 of our working age American work force (250,000,000 or so) is UNEMPLOYED. Eat that for a second. What that equals is a massive surplus of labor, intentionally created through oursourcing and lax immigration policies. Its not a fair system, its not supposed to be a fair system. Anyone who thinks it is fair is utterly brainwashed or so self centered to have no clue how the majority lives.

Where I live there is a state university (LSU) and a community college. Yes, the community college is only 1400 a semester, but it only gets you to your associates.....which other than mine (ultrasound), and say, nursing, no other associates is worth any more than toilet paper. LSU, on the other hand, costs about 500 a credit hour, or 6000 a semester....not chump change. Online universities are close to the same in price. Ludicrous. 30 years ago, most colleges cost about 600 a semester. Our parents didn't pay near what we did, and the state covered much more. What a horrible burden for them. What was their result? A larger, better workforce, a better economy.

I am tired of people on here and other places fixating so much on "these kids don't deserve....", on what people should be given because they "deserve" it or not. Do all people deserve to be free from threat of harm? Or does personal responsibility mean that every one is responsible for policing their own block, putting out their own house fire, building their own street? How is health care or education any different from this? Oh....yeah....theres a bunch of greedy old men standing to make a massive profit off of it. So they campaign, telling the people that there's one more thing they want to shift the burden of cost onto the public for, and the sheeple eat it up, as they vote away yet more of our support systems, along with our bill of rights, our labor protection laws, our regulation of finance laws, and our regulation of fair news representation, all of which our forefathers bled and died to provide us so we would not be victims of the exploitation of the monied powers in our nation. Good job sheeple. I cant wait to see where this goes. Oh, wait....all I have to do is look about 300 years in the past, to feudal western society.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: jhn7537

Your right I agree and that's another issue that needs mainstream attention. The culture in college right now is bad and it's about partying.

I'm the oldest so I had the opportunity to have all the trial and error fro. My parents. So we have to Uniquely different experiences that are large indicators in the way things turned out. Like you my younger sister has seen all her older brothers mistakes and is also making better choices.

It's funny how it works isn't it?


Some call it a blessing, others call it a curse... Oldest kids typically get away with everything... Youngest, while spoiled (because we're the babies, hahaha) we rarely get away with anything because all parents have seen/heard it all...



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:47 PM
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If a student doesn't want to end up in debt they must do a bit of research and be willing to work very hard for four years at least. If they are intelligent, they can go through a Masters on scholarships and fellowships. It takes a lot of effort and dedication, something I see as being in short supply among those in their early 20s.
Kentucky has at least one college where a student can be debt free at graduation. Berea College has high rankings amongst the upper crust in education.
Every student in Kentucky has the opportunity to obtain scholarships. If they take advantage of those opportunities and are willing to work very hard for a few short years, they can enjoy the benefits of their hard work.
We have 4 young men in our family who are within 2 years of the same age. Of the four only one went to college. He attended on academic and athletic scholarships with a bit of help for extras from family. I have no problem investing in a student's education if I see a student who has a plan and has demonstrated ability to accomplish goals. The young man who went to college on scholarships had gotten himself a job and saved his earnings so that when he was old enough to get his driver's license, he was able to pay for his car. He was smart enough to understand that it is far more economical to pay for a car than to get a loan for a car. Both he and his wife have Masters and great jobs and no debt because they were willing to put in the time and effort required for a few years. Both say that just getting through school makes just having a job seem like a vacation.
Of the three young men who did not go to college, two did vocational courses in high school and learned a trade. Those two have good jobs but are head over heels in debt on vehicles and e-gadgets. They still live at home because after making all their payments for their toys they simply can't afford to pay rent....sigh.... The third one didn't bother to graduate high school. He's living on a friend's couch and bumming rides, having mooched off of every family member and friend he had.
It seems to me that the young 20s crowd, at least a notable percentage of them, seem to have suffered some sort of arrested development.
My generation (baby boomer, one of those urged to die in another thread) saw living with parents after college as failure. The whole idea of growing up, going to college or trade school, was to get out there and make a difference in the world. Six or eight of us would live in tumbledown housing and drive old beater cars just to be on our own.
I do not believe that a college education is a must for most jobs. There has been a great deal of slippage in that area since the creation of the Dept. of Education and the feds began "standardizing" education. Getting actual education back into the system would go quite a ways toward an educated society.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:48 PM
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Doh, forgot to make my point about the "deserving" bit. Sometimes what we do is not about "deserving" it. Its supposed to be about whats best for society. Of course, a more highly educated society is better for all.....except those in power, of course.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:48 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
Personal responsibility??? What a joke. What do americans know of personal responsibility? It always tickles me when right wingers talk about this. The vast majority of americans, rich and poor, live the life of "luxury" they have, with iphones, cars, large TV's, relatively cheap gas, all on the backs of nations that they have bombed or raped for natural resources, or export sweat shops and slave labor to. So apparently, personal responsibility means "whatever you can legally steal or exploit". Now this paradigm is being focused on our own people.....big surprise there.

All that being an aside.....to the people who "did it myself in my day"....GUESS WHAT? Its not your day anymore. According to the national department of labor, last month there were 90,000,000 americans of working age not employed or looking for work. Oh, and another 10,000,000 that were looking for work (ie our statistic of 6% unemployment). Taken together, that means that fully 1/3 of our working age American work force (250,000,000 or so) is UNEMPLOYED. Eat that for a second. What that equals is a massive surplus of labor, intentionally created through oursourcing and lax immigration policies. Its not a fair system, its not supposed to be a fair system. Anyone who thinks it is fair is utterly brainwashed or so self centered to have no clue how the majority lives.

Where I live there is a state university (LSU) and a community college. Yes, the community college is only 1400 a semester, but it only gets you to your associates.....which other than mine (ultrasound), and say, nursing, no other associates is worth any more than toilet paper. LSU, on the other hand, costs about 500 a credit hour, or 6000 a semester....not chump change. Online universities are close to the same in price. Ludicrous. 30 years ago, most colleges cost about 600 a semester. Our parents didn't pay near what we did, and the state covered much more. What a horrible burden for them. What was their result? A larger, better workforce, a better economy.

I am tired of people on here and other places fixating so much on "these kids don't deserve....", on what people should be given because they "deserve" it or not. Do all people deserve to be free from threat of harm? Or does personal responsibility mean that every one is responsible for policing their own block, putting out their own house fire, building their own street? How is health care or education any different from this? Oh....yeah....theres a bunch of greedy old men standing to make a massive profit off of it. So they campaign, telling the people that there's one more thing they want to shift the burden of cost onto the public for, and the sheeple eat it up, as they vote away yet more of our support systems, along with our bill of rights, our labor protection laws, our regulation of finance laws, and our regulation of fair news representation, all of which our forefathers bled and died to provide us so we would not be victims of the exploitation of the monied powers in our nation. Good job sheeple. I cant wait to see where this goes. Oh, wait....all I have to do is look about 300 years in the past, to feudal western society.


You sir are a genius and you are the first person I. This thread to use statistical analysis to support your position.

Thanks for your i put.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

This is obvious but people think they are gods and it comes down to personal responsibility.

Like they live on an island by themselves.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt

You are refusing to look at the reality of the situation.

Your world was completely different and springing with opportunity.
Pull your head out of your ass and look at the state of our economy. Refer to the poster I responded to above he actually looks at the situation for what it's worth.

Not referring to the anecdotal evidence of someone being lazy and appealing to the strawman or emotional argument but uses data to support his position.

The data wins buddy.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:57 PM
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one more thing.... to those who grew up in the 60s-80s saying they worked minimum wage jobs to get though college, and others saying that's what real hard working people do. Minimum wage back then went way further than it did today. To say you can work full time at a entry level position and still go full time to school....its much harder than it used to be. And its only going to get worse for your children. Entry level jobs in 1970 paid the equivalent of 18 dollars an hour in todays society. If we still got the same purchasing power from entry level jobs, yes, it might be feasible. At todays rates....its just not.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
one more thing.... to those who grew up in the 60s-80s saying they worked minimum wage jobs to get though college, and others saying that's what real hard working people do. Minimum wage back then went way further than it did today. To say you can work full time at a entry level position and still go full time to school....its much harder than it used to be. And its only going to get worse for your children. Entry level jobs in 1970 paid the equivalent of 18 dollars an hour in todays society. If we still got the same purchasing power from entry level jobs, yes, it might be feasible. At todays rates....its just not.


No, no ,no

Don't use factual evidence to support your position.

Lazy good for nothing entitled brats. Right?

Oh self projecting...



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

I agree moving forward we will have lots of problems. The Liberal obsession with everyone getting a college degree when most of them would be better off with some other form of education is also a problem.




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