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Putting an 18 year old into 120k debt should be considered criminal

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posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: TonyBravada
Because people are told that a harvard education is worth 1000 times more than a community college education, by education institutions we grow up in. Don't even try to act like it doesn't matter. There is a reason that rich people send their kids to harvard etc. To give them an advantage. If the job is narrowed down to joe blow that went to some generic state college, and joe blow that went to harvard, who is more than likely going to get the job?


I have seen research that shows while Ivy league schools make more initially, after 10 years they no longer do and it's the person not the college that dictates pay.




posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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Like I was saying, all the resources and energy are the ingredients, ie there are many models to choose from to run a society on, but we get shoved in crapola kicking and screaming then on come the sold out minions to a hellzone bringing up their versions of economics and morals, and walking all over ever turning out a deluxe meal and all you;re left with is the real reason they completely mismanage this system into a dog eat dog brutality, BECAUSE THEY HATE YOU AND WANT YOU SUFFER ALOT OF PAIN. When you just do something different and suddenly everyone is happy. Go figure.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Then why didn't you supply the link and source for that information?



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:35 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04
Well damn, why don't our high school guidance councilors know that and push it?



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:36 PM
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a reply to: TonyBravada

In state tuition for two, 15 credit semesters comes out to $5,200 here in Alaska. This is for lower division courses, so you're looking at about $10,400 in tuition alone for the first two years. Then, the second two years would run about $12,600. So, in just tuition for 4 years (120 credits) you'd pay $22,600. This does not include any fees, books, room and board or any other associated expenses.

Just to put things in perspective. Of course, on a schedule like this you would be hard pressed to work more than 20 hours a week at the most.
edit on 20-9-2014 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TonyBravada

Show me statistical data the shows the debt to I come ratio of college graduates.

Let's see who the data supports.


My argument is that you can do it cheaply if you spend more than a few minutes thinking about it...

Your response is what? That so many people are dumb and rack up debt anyway? My entire point was that it CAN be done at an affordable cost... Not that everyone does it that way.

You don't understand basic arguments or logic. I'm done paying attention to your idiocy.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:39 PM
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Everything, and I mean everything, is a business model. This applies to corporate welfare as well as poor people's welfare. It applies big time to education. Most of the kids I went to school with graduated to great jobs by way of sheer nepotism as opposed to their actual qualifications for anything. The others had families of wealth who could send their kids to college for 8 to 10 years for a law or doctor dgree. The remainder struggled along with the rest of America to find something that pays as close to 20 bucks an hour if they would be lucky enough to acquire it.

I always get a kick out of people on ATS who think their experience is the ONLY experince and that everyone should emulate their righteous living choices if they want to be successful. What a farce. Ever been downsized? Humans seem to have a quality of gross self centered appreciation that all too often tells them their paycheck is commensurate with their intelligence. Nothing could be more untrue. Our media is infiltrated with snobs of this type. Too many blind sheep wholeheartedly support corporate welfare while blaming the poor for everything wrong in our fascist oligarchy.

People shouldn't have to go heavily into debt to pay endless taxes and start at 15 to 20 bucks an hour with crappy benefits that favor insurance company executives and stock holders as opposed to the recipient of said services. Insurance, another criminal business model.

There are not enough jobs for everyone to be an engineer, doctor, etc., etc.. People who are unable to admit that there is a problem with the rise in cost of everything as opposed to not rising living wages in our current system are the one with their heads in the sand.

The position that todays young people might not have the same work ethic as older generations may be true to some degree but I knew a lot of lazy self entitled spoiled idiots of both sexes in college and that was 30 years ago. I went to school after 4 years in the military so I had been around the globe and already worked my butt off before showing up as a freshman.

Is it really a stretch to suggest that the apathy some see in todays young people is also directly related to this generation now not having it as good as their parents. It can't be generalized into simply life choices and the difference between a liberal arts dgree and an engineering degree. What's the purchasing power of the dollar now? 23 cents? Or is that too high?

The greedy bankers, who, lets be fair, produce nothing of value, continue to rape the American people while laughing all the way to their many mansions have monopolized banking, insurance, and brokering thanks to the Glass-Steagall act going the way of good wages, bye bye.

All the boats are suppose to rise just like wages. That hasn't happened, and the debt is in no way strictly applicable to poor, lazy free loaders. It is just easier to blame them as opposed to biting the hand that discriminately feeds you.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:39 PM
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a reply to: TonyBravada

Still no data.

I've seen and read and base my position on the statistical data of the current paradigm of how our education system works and the aftermath thereof.

The fact is the economy is in worse shape then it's been since the 1920's and the fact is most of the manufacturing jobs are gone and construction is dead and we have a largely service based economy and most students are wasting their time.

My perspective is based on facts.
edit on 9/20/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: TKDRL

Wealthy people know other wealthy people. A degree from Harvard or Yale looks nice yes -- but it's the "networking" that lands these graduates the higher paying jobs.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Exactly my point and that is why the admissions process is so rigorous. It's so only the wealthy can afford to pay the school endowment for entry so they can network with other elites.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom
True, good point. Daddy knows a buddy in his greek letter maffia helps a lot. One dude I worked for, his son refused to be the next in line to run the business, he liked getting paid 8 times his worth for driving a forklift for daddy's company instead and chasing girls. It was unreal to me when I heard it lol. Company imported material from italy and made suits that sold to big names like armani and gucci(might be mispelled).



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: TonyBravada

In state tuition for two, 15 credit semesters comes out to $5,200 here in Alaska. This is for lower division courses, so you're looking at about $10,400 in tuition alone for the first two years. Then, the second two years would run about $12,600. So, in just tuition for 4 years (120 credits) you'd pay $22,600. This does not include any fees, books, room and board or any other associated expenses.

Just to put things in perspective. Of course, on a schedule like this you would be hard pressed to work more than 20 hours a week at the most.


And, to put it in perspective, how much is the state grant maximum in Alaska? Assuming you receive no aid whatsoever, $22,600 is not a horrendous amount of debt. If you choose a profitable degree it won't take you that long to pay it off.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: TonyBravada

In state tuition for two, 15 credit semesters comes out to $5,200 here in Alaska. This is for lower division courses, so you're looking at about $10,400 in tuition alone for the first two years. Then, the second two years would run about $12,600. So, in just tuition for 4 years (120 credits) you'd pay $22,600. This does not include any fees, books, room and board or any other associated expenses.

Just to put things in perspective. Of course, on a schedule like this you would be hard pressed to work more than 20 hours a week at the most.


Working full-time while taking a full course load at college is not too hard to accomplish... Granted, I started college a little later in life, age 24, but I maintained at a minimum 12 credit hours every semester I was in school (night classes) while working my 8-5pm monday thru friday... My last semester was a nightmare though, because I needed to take 18 credit hours, while keeping my job as director of sales for the company I work for... That was, arguably, the hardest 16 weeks of my life, but in the end it felt great walking across that stage!



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:50 PM
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In my father's day, the GI Bill got him through college and an Engineering degree. He was required to be in the armed services for this subsidy, but it paid for his entire education. He already had a Divinity degree that he'd worked for, but seeing as how he discovered he didn't really want to be a "man of the cloth" he served his country in order to get a degree, which then afforded him a position at a company back when companies cared to give employees great benefits packages and pay to keep them from forming unions... He had opportunities that don't exist today.



So. Instead of freely subsidizing Higher Education for those who cannot pay or win scholarships, why not give them something similar to the GI Bill, that doesn't have to include the Military or Peace Corps?

Why not create the American Service Corps and pay our youth to help with infrastructure projects, National Parks, Charitable organizations (all kinds of skill-building there, from office work to feeding the hungry to helping the elderly and disabled).

For those wanting a degree in Education, there is another way, which is to provide that Education with a service component as a "pay back" - We pay your way, you work where we need you for X years afterwards.

Same with getting a medical degree, perhaps. Maybe we could even think of a creative way to offer people on a technology and information systems track a similar deal - post degree, you help fix the archaic computer systems in our government (Federal, State, Local, whatever...) that keep the right hand from knowing what the left hand is doing...

Other ideas, anyone??

How about building a sense of Civic duty, charity and pride through these Service Corps projects (not brainwashing - I mean giving people a REASON to feel proud, charitable and aware of Civic duty).

( On a side note - while we are at it, why not have a "jobs creation" part of the American Service Corps for returning/retiring veterans to enable them to work as a bridge to economic success post-military service, or work with a new GI Bill?)

It doesn't have to be "FREE" - which simply won't fly in our political climate - but it doesn't have to be the way it is, either. I think these ideas have merit because they 1) help youth trying to get an education and get ahead, and 2) help take care of domestic service needs, and 3) strike a balance between political ideologies while removing both the problem of the debt load and the desire to have people step up and earn what they receive.

What say you, ATS?


Another point entirely - why are we choosing to make so much interest money off of the backs of college grads? Just think about that for a minute. We have crappy jobs, low morale and kids feeling doomed by the massive weight of student debt. This is rather low, in my opinion. Can we be better than that?

If we don't educate our populous, not only does our Democratic Republic/Democracy suffer, but WE ALL LOSE OUT on the talents, ingenuity, innovation, skills and economic return of an educated work force.

peace,
AB



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: jhn7537

Look at your local CC and the class schedule and tell me if any of them accolade a regular 9-5 with night classes for the full syllabus for any degree.

They want you in debt on purpose.


edit on 9/20/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: jhn7537

Look at your local CC and the class schedule and tell me if any of them accolade a regular 9-5 with night classes for the full syllabus for any degree.


Yes, College of Dupage definitely does just that... I did my first 2 years there before transferring to DePaul to finish my undergrad... I did ALL night classes at the C.C.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: TonyBravada
Good luck finding a job in alaska, or in another state that don't equate alaska with sara palin lol. Everything is huge competition, pushed by high schools. People that are good at football are flocking to notre dame or duke. I ended up not even telling my parents about the colleges I was accepted to, when 4 year tuition cost more than our house, no way I am willing to put them into that kinda debt.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: jhn7537

When?



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: jhn7537

When?


I was at COD just over 2 years ago... And finished at Depaul from 2013 to 2014
edit on 20-9-2014 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: AboveBoard
That is something I could stand behind.



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