Putting an 18 year old into 120k debt should be considered criminal

a reply to: peck420

Yup and that's what your hear fighting against.

I'm identifying a problem and trying to come up with a solution all the while your trying to what exactly?

Your contradicting yourself.

originally posted by: onequestion
I present the solution and the problem already.

What? For people to use their taxes to pay for it? You think that's just going to magically happen?

I mean how do we turn this boat around so that education isn't so expensive? How do we make this country stop paying so much for the military so we can afford to pay for our children's education? HOW does it happen?

originally posted by: onequestion
Why don't you come up with a solution if you don't like mine.

You haven't given a solution. You've said education should be free. OK. HOW? How do you make that happen?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I don't know why don't you try coming up with an idea like me instead of making me responsible?

Don't tell me my solution isn't good enough if you don't have one of your own.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I've already said.

End the war on drugs and reallocate those funds to education. End the war in the Middle East and reallocate those funds to education.

Tax the new drug trade.

Regulate tuition costs and end endowments.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: NavyDoc

We need more apprenticeships not trade schools.

I agree with that. The apprentice program is a great way to learn a skilled trade while getting job experience and a paycheck.

The trouble is that it requires something that a lot of young Americans don't want to do--work. For many, university is just an extension of highschool and the prolongation of adolescence.

It requires something else too. It requires that the employer pay for job training. That cost has been passed on to the employee.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: peck420

Yup and that's what your hear fighting against.

I'm identifying a problem and trying to come up with a solution all the while your trying to what exactly?

Your contradicting yourself.

There is no contradiction.

I slugged through my mess, and found my own ways to better myself and overcome my mess.

Now it is your turn.

But, it does involve a wee bit more than whining online about it. And, that is the part that you fail to understand.

a reply to: onequestion

Our economy is growing, and people with majors in science, technology, engineering, and math (people who CREATE) are becoming more and more relevant in comparison to people with majors in, say, interdisciplinary studies and psychology. Because of the demand for more STEM majors, more people need to attend college and major in STEM in order to meet the demand of our STEM-driven economy. I think people misinterpret this as, "more people need to go to college," which isn't necessarily true. More people who are interested in STEM need to go to college. The influx of art and music majors in college along with STEM majors is what has helped cause the inflation of university dues.

I am a STEM major. It is hard, but it will pay off. I have tutored english, parks and recreation, emergency management, etc majors, most of whom are attending on some form of federal aid, in basic math. To be honest with you, most of them are not critical thinkers. They want information to be handed to them, and they just want to digest it and regurgitate it. They do not want to use the information given during class to apply in other situations. People majoring in things like parks and recreation and emergency management really do not need to have a 4-6 year college education in order to perform the job duties that they will encounter later on. The government is basically paying millions of dollars for these zombies to go to college to be fed information, graduate, and then still live off of the government due to low pay in that field after graduation. The people in our society who are less smart are tricked into this idea that they need to go to college, but college isn't for everyone and that's OK. Everyone is not the same, and that's OK!! What is misunderstood is that truck drivers, plumbers, highwaymen, linemen are just as needed as STEM majors and are undoubtedly more needed than Latin and French sculpture majors.

originally posted by: peck420

No, the fact that he profited from the system...than bucked the system invalidates his position.

As it does with the vast majority of hypocrites.

So Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson couldn't criticize slavery and formulate opinions that would later lead to abolishing it?

a reply to: peck420

Your personal success hinges on the success of our society.

originally posted by: onequestion
I don't know why don't you try coming up with an idea like me instead of making me responsible?

This is YOUR thread. It's YOUR generation. It's YOUR education. It's YOUR responsibility. Every thread I've seen from you lately has been complaint after complaint about how your generation is treated and how it's all my fault. And NO solutions.

Don't tell me my solution isn't good enough if you don't have one of your own.

You haven't given a solution! You've said "if only..." If only someone else would pay for it... That's pie-in-the-sky thinking. That's not a solution. My solution was to not have children so they wouldn't have to go through what kids are going through today. It worked for me.

Here's my idea: RUN FOR OFFICE. Get together with others in your neighborhood and talk about this. Take it to your town hall - your representatives. MAKE it an issue in your city and state. Reaching out and blaming a bunch of strangers on a forum is NOT helpful.

Maybe you just want to argue. I don't know. But if you REALLY want something done... do it yourself.

originally posted by: onequestion
Your personal success hinges on the success of our society.

My 'society' is currently moving forward at breakneck speeds.

Our current concern is growing too quickly, and large labour shortages.

originally posted by: onequestion
End the war on drugs and reallocate those funds to education. End the war in the Middle East and reallocate those funds to education.

Tax the new drug trade.

Regulate tuition costs and end endowments.

These things aren't just going to happen! Those are great ideas and ones I agree with. "Ending the war in the middle east" is something we'd ALL like to see. Have you got a magic wand?

originally posted by: MathGal14
a reply to: onequestion

Our economy is growing, and people with majors in science, technology, engineering, and math (people who CREATE) are becoming more and more relevant in comparison to people with majors in, say, interdisciplinary studies and psychology. Because of the demand for more STEM majors, more people need to attend college and major in STEM in order to meet the demand of our STEM-driven economy. I think people misinterpret this as, "more people need to go to college," which isn't necessarily true. More people who are interested in STEM need to go to college. The influx of art and music majors in college along with STEM majors is what has helped cause the inflation of university dues.

I am a STEM major. It is hard, but it will pay off. I have tutored english, parks and recreation, emergency management, etc majors, most of whom are attending on some form of federal aid, in basic math. To be honest with you, most of them are not critical thinkers. They want information to be handed to them, and they just want to digest it and regurgitate it. They do not want to use the information given during class to apply in other situations. People majoring in things like parks and recreation and emergency management really do not need to have a 4-6 year college education in order to perform the job duties that they will encounter later on. The government is basically paying millions of dollars for these zombies to go to college to be fed information, graduate, and then still live off of the government due to low pay in that field after graduation. The people in our society who are less smart are tricked into this idea that they need to go to college, but college isn't for everyone and that's OK. Everyone is not the same, and that's OK!! What is misunderstood is that truck drivers, plumbers, highwaymen, linemen are just as needed as STEM majors!!!!

I can agree with that.

Would you say that the issue is the way we approach college as a culture and push college at a,l costs?

Should make science relevant in the media to encourage more STEM programs? Umm I think you get it.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Nope but guess what if we don't start talking about it it's never going to happen.

We need to communicate these ideas to more people and agree on the. And start working on solutions that work for everyone.

How are we going to get there if we don't start talking about?

originally posted by: Aazadan
So Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson couldn't criticize slavery and formulate opinions that would later lead to abolishing it?

Seeing as neither did much other than whine about, even while they had the influence to directly change it...yea, I wouldn't put much stock into their opinions on slavery.

It is nice to glorify their statements about their role in abolishing slavery, but let's put things into perspective. Both of these men had the chance to actually end slavery (US only)...neither did.

What does that tell you?

a reply to: onequestion

I completely agree with that. Huge misconception in our society about the demand of the economy, per the usual.

originally posted by: onequestion
How are we going to get there if we don't start talking about?

I don't have any problem with talking about it.

I'm beginning to think you'd rather argue with people who disagree with you rather than actually DO THE WORK it's going to take to turn things around for you and your peers.

I'll check back later.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I mean how do we turn this boat around so that education isn't so expensive? How do we make this country stop paying so much for the military so we can afford to pay for our children's education? HOW does it happen?

Two solutions:
1. Let the government take over education, dictate all salaries and costs then pay those costs with tax money. The advantages are that it spreads risk and if run optimally is cheaper as there is no profit motive. The disadvantage is that there's little incentive to control costs and programs offered are driven by demands of the voters (who frankly don't have a clue) rather than by the market.

2. Get government financing out of student loans. Make the colleges themselves offer financing and compete not just on cost/quality but on loan terms. The advantages are that colleges have an incentive to make sure students learn and can get jobs that allow them to repay the loans and that costs are minimized. The disadvantages are that some people will be unable to afford college.

Personally, I would be fine with either system.

a reply to: Aazadan

Great solutions.

Thanks for adding constructively to the thread rather then using blanket statements to ignore all issues.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Two solutions:
1. Let the government take over education, dictate all salaries and costs then pay those costs with tax money.
2. Get government financing out of student loans.

Voicing solutions is great, but HOW do we make these things happen? We can talk about it here all day, but unless someone goes out and does the work, it's just wishful thinking.