Putting an 18 year old into 120k debt should be considered criminal

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Umm I agree with this poster because he's right.

I'm right.

There's no mindset to this thread.

Education should be free and would benefit the entire planet period.

That's the mindset. period.

no you BELIEVE youre right, that doesnt make it so.......

it would be nice if education was free, but its NOT......

And because its not, people need to take responsibility forthe debt they incur and stop expecting other people to pay for it.

If you want to get a higher education and be a grown up, then take on the grown up responsibility , that means when you take out loans then you pay them off......

If you decide to major in something where you cant get good pay, then whose fault is that

Maybe I missed something but I haven't seen anyone suggest that student loan debts should be paid by the government.

What is being debated are the out-of-control costs of higher education and the lack of government support to keep costs down. Keep people from being buried in debt in the first place... that should be the goal. I also haven't seen anyone suggest that additional taxes should be taken to make this possible... merely that existing tax dollars are used more wisely to help remedy the problem. College hasn't always been this expensive... it's a relatively recent problem.

I'm glad your chosen field worked out for you but there are students who choose a field that's great when they enter college and dries up by the time they graduate. There are also students who research their major thoroughly and the information available paints a rosy picture that isn't realistic. The issue is, with no job experience, they don't know the difference. This isn't a matter of "personal responsibility", it's a matter of misrepresentation and outright lies told to young people.

The OP said, repeatedly, that higher education should be "free." Whom else do you think he is referring to but the government?

Give me a reasonable response as to why our tax dollars shouldn't be going to education?

In my opinion education is better then war.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Answer

When government started subsidizing education for everyone is when the problem started. When government makes something "affordable," it rapidly becomes unaffordable for everyone. Government has the deepest pockets of all, and universities take advantage of that freely. Who cares about the rest of us? If we get priced out of the college, government will always pick up our tab ...

This. This is when the cost of university education skyrocketed.

So you admit that this is a problem.

What's your solution then since you don't like mine.

originally posted by: macman

originally posted by: onequestion


It's a cop out blanket statement used by people who don't want to discus the issues and find common ground and come to resolution.

Common ground for what exactly?? That you want others to fund people's mistakes??
Yea, no common ground. None to be had.
You make a choice, you live with said choice.

originally posted by: onequestion
The best part almost everyone who uses it, they don't think they are responsible to helping people in their community. It's so hilariously hypocritical.

So now responsibility to people in the community equates to money taken from me to give to you.

Yep, Govt theft helping others. SOOO much help.

Your already paying the taxes that would enable this to happen we just need to reallocate the funds.

Seems like your perfectly fine I prisoning everyone for victimless crimes and for bombing kids I. Iraq but how dare us help some people with an education,

"For our nation's youngest workers, as well as for the workforce at large, there is a real need for employers to reexamine how they hire, train and develop their employees," said Katherine Lavelle, of the global management consulting firm Accenture, which conducted the survey.

These corporations need us to be educated in order for them to make money off of us so why aren't they held marginally responsible for training?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: pexx421

It's a cop out blanket statement used by people who don't want to discus the issues and find common ground and come to resolution.

The best part almost everyone who uses it, they don't think they are responsible to helping people in their community. It's so hilariously hypocritical.

Nah, wanting someone else to pay for what you want and calling them selfish when they don't want to is hypocritical.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I don't want to go to college I already have a trade.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: NavyDoc

www.huffingtonpost.com...

While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder. Median wages for those with bachelor's degrees are down from 2000, hit by technological changes that are eliminating midlevel jobs such as bank tellers. Most future job openings are projected to be in lower-skilled positions such as home health aides, who can provide personalized attention as the U.S. population ages.

source

The online survey of 1,050 workers who finished school in the past two years and 1,010 who will receive their degree in 2013 also found that many graduates, some heavily in debt because of the cost of their education, say they are in jobs that do not require a college degree.

Exactly. People who get degrees in basket weaving are having trouble finding a job. No sh$t.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Umm I agree with this poster because he's right.

I'm right.

There's no mindset to this thread.

Education should be free and would benefit the entire planet period.

That's the mindset. period.

no you BELIEVE youre right, that doesnt make it so.......

it would be nice if education was free, but its NOT......

And because its not, people need to take responsibility forthe debt they incur and stop expecting other people to pay for it.

If you want to get a higher education and be a grown up, then take on the grown up responsibility , that means when you take out loans then you pay them off......

If you decide to major in something where you cant get good pay, then whose fault is that

Maybe I missed something but I haven't seen anyone suggest that student loan debts should be paid by the government.

What is being debated are the out-of-control costs of higher education and the lack of government support to keep costs down. Keep people from being buried in debt in the first place... that should be the goal. I also haven't seen anyone suggest that additional taxes should be taken to make this possible... merely that existing tax dollars are used more wisely to help remedy the problem. College hasn't always been this expensive... it's a relatively recent problem.

I'm glad your chosen field worked out for you but there are students who choose a field that's great when they enter college and dries up by the time they graduate. There are also students who research their major thoroughly and the information available paints a rosy picture that isn't realistic. The issue is, with no job experience, they don't know the difference. This isn't a matter of "personal responsibility", it's a matter of misrepresentation and outright lies told to young people.

The OP said, repeatedly, that higher education should be "free." Whom else do you think he is referring to but the government?

Give me a reasonable response as to why our tax dollars shouldn't be going to education?

In my opinion education is better then war.

1). Maintaining a military is one of the enumerated duties of government, education is not.

2). Government always does things less efficiently and more expensively than the private sector. The true cost will go up and the true value will go down if government takes over and everything is "free."

3). If the taxpayer is paying for your education, the taxpayer has every right to tell you what to study. I sure as heck don't want to waste taxpayer money on yet another worthless degree when what we need are engineers and scientists. I'm certain that you would not be happy with state mandated degrees and having certain degrees not "free" and complain about it not being "fair" that basaketweaving is not on the approved degrees list.

4). Some people are simply not university materiel and "college" would be simply a prolongation of their adolescence. We need more trade schools.

a reply to: NavyDoc

So your solution is for everyone to become a nurse?

In fall 2014, some 21.0 million students are expected to attend American colleges and universities, constituting an increase of about 5.7 million since

source

So, what should these 21 million people do? Maybe 10 million nurses, 5 million electricians, and 5 million engineers? Great........I'm sure that will work. We'll be in exactly the same position.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Answer

When government started subsidizing education for everyone is when the problem started. When government makes something "affordable," it rapidly becomes unaffordable for everyone. Government has the deepest pockets of all, and universities take advantage of that freely. Who cares about the rest of us? If we get priced out of the college, government will always pick up our tab ...

This. This is when the cost of university education skyrocketed.

So you admit that this is a problem.

What's your solution then since you don't like mine.

Free market solution. Stop subsidizing and stop covering loans. When government backs loans, universities know that they'll get paid by someone so they raise prices and fees out of the realm of reality and kids sign up for them because they know the debt will be "forgiven" and the cycle spirals upwards. Stop covering loans and kids will not sign up for them or default on them and universities will not get their fees covered and they'll go back to charging more attainable fees and they'll stop wasting money on extraneous crap like gender studies departments.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: NavyDoc

So your solution is for everyone to become a nurse?

In fall 2014, some 21.0 million students are expected to attend American colleges and universities, constituting an increase of about 5.7 million since

source

So, what should these 21 million people do? Maybe 10 million nurses, 5 million electricians, and 5 million engineers? Great........I'm sure that will work. We'll be in exactly the same position.

Perhaps if they are going to get a degree that qualifies them only to be a barista, then they could skip the middle man and the debt and just become a barista.

When you have one American kid and 30 Chinese kids in an engineering class, the problem becomes quite clear.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: NavyDoc

I don't want to go to college I already have a trade.

And the trade is?

If you have not, nor plan to, go to university, then how do you have a clue what it's all about?

a reply to: NavyDoc

We need more apprenticeships not trade schools. That's just another excuse to pay someone to teach something your going to have to be taught how to do on the job anyway.

Even after people go to trade school they still can't seem to function properly on jobsites nothing beats an apprenticeship.

This means that there are no tuition fees charged in Finnish higher education degrees starting in autumn 2014, regardless of the level of studies and the nationality of the student.

Finalnd pays for anyone that's wants to go to school I. Their country. Interesting... Regardless of nationality.

www.studyinfinland.fi...

As reflected in the steady rise of its economic freedom over the past two decades, Finland’s strong competitiveness is built on flexibility and openness. The economy continues to be among the world leaders in several of the 10 economic freedoms including business freedom, property rights, and freedom from corruption. The sound regulatory environment encourages entrepreneurial activity and innovation. Commercial operations are handled with transparency and speed, and corruption is perceived as almost nonexistent.

source

Hmm, seems like they are doing fine to me.

I think the real issue here is that as the world globally I tegrates and labor cost go down, and with the advent of new technology such as 3d printing and robotics there just won't be jobs for everyone.

A new social structure is going to be required and free education is going to be part of it.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I've taken classes and I can read believe it or not.

I'm a carpenter.

originally posted by: onequestion


Your already paying the taxes that would enable this to happen we just need to reallocate the funds.

My property taxes goes towards local based education.
My Federal Taxes do not and should not.
You, and others, can make the choice. GO to college and pay for it yourself.

Or, continue down the narcissistic millennial pathway of everyone else pays for your mistakes in life.

originally posted by: onequestion
Seems like your perfectly fine I prisoning everyone for victimless crimes and for bombing kids I. Iraq but how dare us help some people with an education,

Oh, care to show where I stated that???

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: NavyDoc

So your solution is for everyone to become a nurse?

In fall 2014, some 21.0 million students are expected to attend American colleges and universities, constituting an increase of about 5.7 million since

source

So, what should these 21 million people do? Maybe 10 million nurses, 5 million electricians, and 5 million engineers? Great........I'm sure that will work. We'll be in exactly the same position.

Perhaps if they are going to get a degree that qualifies them only to be a barista, then they could skip the middle man and the debt and just become a barista.

When you have one American kid and 30 Chinese kids in an engineering class, the problem becomes quite clear.

Is it the kids fault or the parents fault?

We have serious cultural issues with cure option and greed. They need to be addressed.

a reply to: macman

Ummm. Millennial are learning a lifelong inescapable lesson at age 18.

How many mistakes did you make early on I. Your life? I bet you made a ton. Hell i bet you make mistakes all the time till this day. Should you be held fiscally responsible for them your entire life? No you shouldn't.

a reply to: onequestion

Regardless if it is the issue with the young adult or the parent....it is not the business of the Govt. Nor is it something to be carried by the tax payer.

a reply to: macman

And what's going to happen when labor cost go even lower, and robotics take over the service sector jobs?

Who's going to feed everyone?

There's simply isn't going to be jobs like there were ten years ago we need to start looking at new alternatives.

What's your Mac? Do you have any? Or do you just simply only care about your tax dollars?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: macman

Ummm. Millennial are learning a lifelong inescapable lesson at age 18.

How many mistakes did you make early on I. Your life? I bet you made a ton. Hell i bet you make mistakes all the time till this day. Should you be held fiscally responsible for them your entire life? No you shouldn't.

I made many mistakes, and I paid for every one of them.

Here is the difference.

I owned up to my mistakes and took care of them.

You want others to carry the burden. You are lazy and a coward.

Lazy because you want someone else to handle your mistakes.

A coward because you refuse to deal with your issues, and would rather bury your head in the sand and have others deal with the big scary life monster.