Putting an 18 year old into 120k debt should be considered criminal

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: infolurker

Please explain to me when and how you acquired this perspective?

Was this your perspective at 15 when you were choosing what program you wanted to go I to and for what colleges to apply to?

My best guess... Probably not.

This is more likely knowledge you've acquired recently after analysis and years of working In the market.

At 16, I knew what I wanted to do, and knew college wouldn't get me there. I now work as the chief technician in the performing arts dept. at a University, which is within my chosen field.
I will point out I did pick up some great contacts while I myself attended college. But the degree isn't what gets you there. And I would have found the contacts through my own travels outside of my college days.

a reply to: macman
Yeah, unless of course you are someone like Trump, then you run up multi-billion dollar tabs and file for chapter 11 a couple of times lol.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: macman

Because the world is as simple as responsibility and not responsibility.

thats really all it comes down to. THATS THE ANSWER TO ALL!

Now you are beginning to understand.
Please think of it this way---if every single person in the world woke up one morning and said, "I'm going to take responsibility for myself today and from now on." Would that make the world a better place or a nastier place?
That's not say that it would be a perfect world yet but it would certainly be a different world. The first effect would be that the banksters would be in a world of hurt because when you swear off debt, they suffer. As long as you are carrying plastic, they are happy, happy, happy.
The corporate structure isn't shaking in its boots over the millis---they're laughing all the way to the bank as you buy more and more corporate-produced junk and they collect the interest on the debts you're incurring by being a sheep and following the latest fads on everything from hair color to e-gadgets.

When you've become responsible for yourself, then your next obligation is to reach out and help those who aren't able to take care of themselves. Pay it forward. It doesn't have to be financial help---it could be any number of ways to help others. Offer your strengths to help them overcome their weaknesses. Volunteer your time and talent to help out in the community where you see need. There is no greater satisfaction than seeing hard work pay off in positive changes in your community---a small group of dedicated people making a difference in the lives of the community.
Channel your financial resources into YOUR community, not the global economy. Screw the global economy---it's a myth. It's a banksters' economy, period. The only way to defeat them is to not play---not buy their product. They are snakes and if you play with them long enough, expect to be bitten.

Wow. Here we go again, Americans speaking about "personal responsibility". Do you realize that you, every single American who pays taxes, are personally responsible for the deaths of 1.3 million Iraqis? 4 million Vietnamese? If you shop at Walmart, or other similar stores, you are personally responsible for child labor, and sweat shops. Get that? You are personally responsible for contributing to the terrorism and dictatorships we install in Venezuela, Columbia, argentina, Haiti. You pay taxes, so you contribute to it. If you wear nikes, or reebok, or any of the umpteen other brands, you contribute to child slavery. If you have a cell phone or computer, you are personally responsible for slaves in Africa held to labor since the Rwanda genocide.....and dying from their mining of radioactive materials. If you use a gas powered vehicle you are personally responsible for the wars we have waged to steal petroleum from other nations. You are the single largest cause of global warming due to your complete lack of "personal responsibility". Americans are so far from "personal responsibility" that its not even funny. Please, stop referring to this as if you have any clue what it means. If any of you truly decided to have personal responsibility, you would now be safely resting in a prison. Please, by all means, come up with other arguments to support your cause, but leave this one behind, as you have less claim to it than any other peoples in the world.

a reply to: pexx421

It's a cop out blanket statement used by people who don't want to discus the issues and find common ground and come to resolution.

The best part almost everyone who uses it, they don't think they are responsible to helping people in their community. It's so hilariously hypocritical.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Can you expect an 18 year old to understand s after 12 years of brainwashing and limited exposure to the rest of the world?

No you can't.

So...I just want to make sure I have this right

An 18 year old ADULT, who has had access his entire life open and available to the whole of human knowledge that can fit on a 7 inch phone AND is part of the generation known to consider themselves smarter, more advanced and questions EVERYTHING...can't be bothered to turn on said phone or computer and look for him/herself and determine that this economy is crap and that maybe a degree in Economics or Engineering is probably a weeeeee better than a degree in Romance Languages?

bull.....poopy

All I ever hear is how this is the generation of 'why.' Why is this like this? Why is this like that? How does this work? Who did that? When did it happen?

And I am not being insulting...Milleneals and this newest, unnamed generation SHOULD question everything...I beg that they do! But when the new generation began working under me in the Air Force and in the corporate and now mental health world, everything was 'why should I do this' or 'what is this for' and seems to need to know answers instead of taking my suggestions (or in the case of the military) my direct orders. Now, if that's how the new generation will be, fine. I am always going to do my job with integrity and I will do what I can to help them succeed

But do you see the disconnect here?

These two new generations are all about researching and having to know and DEFYING authority (again...PLEASE READ THAT I AM NOT SAYING IT'S ALWAYS A BAD THING) and yet, when something does go wrong, they are the victim. Despite being an adult and being fully capable or switching on our fancy 4G LTE or our blazing fast 50 Mbps (and faster) internet, they are still somehow the victim.

Question everything...defy the man...do things our OWN way...but oops I didn't look into the reality of something and now I am the victim

There comes a point when a person or generation has to stop being the victim. They are adults now and need to act as adults and learn for themselves

So in short, if this 'question everything' generation can't 'question everything' then I have zero sympathy

I went to grad school and owe a lot...I read all my rights...there were no surprises to me when I owed a lot of money back and not once did I run and say it's someone else's fault

a reply to: pexx421

no because the younger folks today (not all of them) seem to spout that they are responsible and kings and queens of their own actions, but when it comes to a moment where they truly need to take massive responsibility, EVEN as adults...they are suddenly victims...it's how it is for many today

It was real simple when I grew up...you make your bed and lay in it...if you choose to not look at what color sheets you put down close your eyes and lay down in some stain, then guess what bucko...you did it

originally posted by: ketsuko
No one forces you to go to college.

There are many jobs that pay very well that don't require a college education. My cousin has one. He's a trucker.

There are also ways to get your college education that don't require you to do it in the traditional four years on college loans.

When do we stop the "free stuff" ride in this country? When did "I want it and don't want to pay for it, so I'm entitled to it" become an excuse to make it government-funded? We cannot afford to do this healthcare, and we cannot afford to do this with college education, either.

Another thing to consider is that you generally get what you pay for. Free is not quality. It isn't with health care, and it won't be with college education, either. There is a reason why no one talks much about going to Europe to get their college diploma, and most everyone travels to the US to get theirs.

This sounds good and you make some good points.

On the "free is not quality". Schools that have say 200 students enrolled in a field where the school knows dam well that 5% of them wont get a job? And we don't see the loan people stepping in and basing the borrowing criteria on this information. Really does look to me like a case for fraud on the part of the lenders and the schools. The government loan program is nothing but a welfare free ride for the higher education institutions which are a dine a dozen anyway.

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: pexx421

no because the younger folks today (not all of them) seem to spout that they are responsible and kings and queens of their own actions, but when it comes to a moment where they truly need to take massive responsibility, EVEN as adults...they are suddenly victims...it's how it is for many today

It was real simple when I grew up...you make your bed and lay in it...if you choose to not look at what color sheets you put down close your eyes and lay down in some stain, then guess what bucko...you did it

As far as I am concerned, to attribute these adages, which are fair enough, to the what colleges and the loan folks are doing sounds like the old line...."well did you see the way she was dressed? She was asking for it"...

Kids thinking about getting any sort of college education these days should be advised not to drop the soap in the shower, and don't bend over to pick it up.

a reply to: TKDRL

And that is wrong also.

originally posted by: onequestion


It's a cop out blanket statement used by people who don't want to discus the issues and find common ground and come to resolution.

Common ground for what exactly?? That you want others to fund people's mistakes??
Yea, no common ground. None to be had.
You make a choice, you live with said choice.

originally posted by: onequestion
The best part almost everyone who uses it, they don't think they are responsible to helping people in their community. It's so hilariously hypocritical.

So now responsibility to people in the community equates to money taken from me to give to you.

Yep, Govt theft helping others. SOOO much help.

a reply to: Logarock

I had to read your response many times to make sure I had it right

I am testing this post for sarcasm or perhaps I am just completely misreading because I am very tired after a long overnight shift...so if you didn't mean to attribute my comparison to rape...stop reading right now and accept my apology

If you DID...then please read

really....I mean really? one more time...REALLY

so let me again get this straight

you are now attributing my comments to the concept of a woman getting raped and blaming her

ok then here we go

When a woman (or man) is raped...they never EVER asked for it and I am pretty sure there wasn't a lengthy legal document for her/him to sign that warned her "you are about to be raped" that then detailed PRECISELY how and where that woman was about to be abused. No...a man (or woman) surprises their chosen victim and ATTACKS them...no advance warning...no notice...no promissory note...no legal document you sign a billion times where at the end the victim is like "OMG I was raped?"

No...while I agree that loans are out of control and while I agree tuition should be lowered, you have to sign a ton of times to even request a loan...a ton of times to get the loan...then a ton of times to accept the loan. All the while, at any moment these folks can click decline. You are warned, over and over and over and over that you WILL be paying back a lot of money at a pretty hefty interest rate

Now...as far as the schools go and the job market...look around..yeah I am aware the numbers are not perfect...but I was pretty damn aware of the job expectancy for therapists in my area...and what I was told I would make was pretty spot on. There are websites...just google job expectancy and it wil tell you median, locations, expected growth all this fantastic and valuable data

BUT I know what you might be thinking...that data may be incorrect...yeah possibly...so call around, job shadow, find out what earnings are...the point is you can and SHOULD be data mining for yourself before you decide to take on 100k in loans and when you do, be it a good move OR bad, that's on you

Rape is not...I don't give a crap what she wore or what neighborhood she wore it in...not even close to the same

originally posted by: intrepid
OK. Let's see if I got this straight. I went to university on student loans. I paid off those student loans and now you want MY tax dollars to pay for YOUR education? Have I got that right?

Yep, you got that right.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Answer

When government started subsidizing education for everyone is when the problem started. When government makes something "affordable," it rapidly becomes unaffordable for everyone. Government has the deepest pockets of all, and universities take advantage of that freely. Who cares about the rest of us? If we get priced out of the college, government will always pick up our tab ...

This. This is when the cost of university education skyrocketed.

originally posted by: tavi45
Out of my family of more than 200 people I'm universally considered the smartest but yet I have the least "education" of anyone. This is due to seeing through the bull# early.

Really?

Is this something you all sit around talking about, how smart you are and how you see through BS early?

Wow, must be cool to be you.

I'm universally considered a grouch by my family.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Answer

When government started subsidizing education for everyone is when the problem started. When government makes something "affordable," it rapidly becomes unaffordable for everyone. Government has the deepest pockets of all, and universities take advantage of that freely. Who cares about the rest of us? If we get priced out of the college, government will always pick up our tab ...

Actually, if you research the issue, education costs got out of control when the government stopped giving as much money to public universities back in the '70s. It was the withdrawal of government support that increased the tuition costs. The federal government realized they could benefit from subsidizing loans (that, of course, had to be repaid with interest) instead of financially supporting public universities (with earmarks) to keep costs down for students. The government became the loan shark instead of the supporter.

Higher education is big business.

And here we have a reasonable educated perspective versus a,

ME ME ME perspective. Which is the, " why would I(me me me) pay for someone else's education?)

Isn't wanting someone else to pay for your education just as much, if not more, of a "me, me, me" philosophy, than not wanting to pay for someone else's education? Which is more selfish? Wanting to keep what you have made for you and yours or wanting to take from someone else to get what you want?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: thesaneone

You havent seen the data your making your judgements based on the "entitlement" curtain being draped over every issue that doesn't involve your age group.

Fyi current statistical data supports my position and you know this.
no I. Not providing sources Google it it's been talked about extensively on ats.

What statistical data? Define "education." Is a world full of women's studies majors better off than a world full of engineers?

When you say you have data to support your claim, you present said data, you don't just say "it's out there." That response wouldn't fly in university, thus you might not be university material in the first place.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Umm I agree with this poster because he's right.

I'm right.

There's no mindset to this thread.

Education should be free and would benefit the entire planet period.

That's the mindset. period.

no you BELIEVE youre right, that doesnt make it so.......

it would be nice if education was free, but its NOT......

And because its not, people need to take responsibility forthe debt they incur and stop expecting other people to pay for it.

If you want to get a higher education and be a grown up, then take on the grown up responsibility , that means when you take out loans then you pay them off......

If you decide to major in something where you cant get good pay, then whose fault is that

Maybe I missed something but I haven't seen anyone suggest that student loan debts should be paid by the government.

What is being debated are the out-of-control costs of higher education and the lack of government support to keep costs down. Keep people from being buried in debt in the first place... that should be the goal. I also haven't seen anyone suggest that additional taxes should be taken to make this possible... merely that existing tax dollars are used more wisely to help remedy the problem. College hasn't always been this expensive... it's a relatively recent problem.

I'm glad your chosen field worked out for you but there are students who choose a field that's great when they enter college and dries up by the time they graduate. There are also students who research their major thoroughly and the information available paints a rosy picture that isn't realistic. The issue is, with no job experience, they don't know the difference. This isn't a matter of "personal responsibility", it's a matter of misrepresentation and outright lies told to young people.

The OP said, repeatedly, that higher education should be "free." Whom else do you think he is referring to but the government?

originally posted by: tridentblue

originally posted by: jhn7537

originally posted by: tavi45
The education itself is worthless. Basically a college degree says you're willing to pay money to prove that you're willing to be obedient. Out of my family of more than 200 people I'm universally considered the smartest but yet I have the least "education" of anyone. This is due to seeing through the bull# early.

The education itself it worthless? Really??? I learned plenty over the course of 4 years, did I learn $35k's worth a year? Hard to say, but to say the education is worthless is just silly in my opinion. The cost is silly... The idea that you need it to perform a job is silly... But the education one can obtain from a quality school is not silly...

I enjoyed my time at my undergrad, I networked with many brilliant minds who have helped me both academially and professionally speaking... Unfortunately today, you need a degree (most times) to even secure an interview (for a corporate job)...

Yeah I totally agree with that...Especially with science degrees. So you did a 4 year home study program in chemistry? Are you ready to come into the lab and use the mass spectrometer? No, because they cost too much and you never touched one, because you didn't do lab time in a school.

So you gave yourself a home MD. Ready to do surgery? No. Because you never had access to cadavers to practice on or experience assisting real surgeons because you didn't go to med school.

So you did 4 years study in computer science. Ready to release your new algorithm? You have a better shot here, but still the answer is no, because you didn't have access to the journals you needed to read (too much at $30 each) to know if your new algorithm is actually new, or the mass server farms to test it on.

Colleges represent RESOURCES that you just don't have access to if you don't go.

But degrees in all of those things will get you jobs that can pay off your loans. A 200K debt for an MD degree is a wise investment (until the leftists destroy that profession of course). A 200k debt for a gender studies degree or a basket weaving degree is not a wise investment.

Those who leave university with science and professional degrees are not the ones starving as they try to find barista work. That's a key problem in the US...young people are avoiding the worthwhile degrees in droves. It does our society no good to have taxpayer funded basket weaving degrees.

a reply to: NavyDoc

www.huffingtonpost.com...

While there's strong demand in science, education and health fields, arts and humanities flounder. Median wages for those with bachelor's degrees are down from 2000, hit by technological changes that are eliminating midlevel jobs such as bank tellers. Most future job openings are projected to be in lower-skilled positions such as home health aides, who can provide personalized attention as the U.S. population ages.

source

The online survey of 1,050 workers who finished school in the past two years and 1,010 who will receive their degree in 2013 also found that many graduates, some heavily in debt because of the cost of their education, say they are in jobs that do not require a college degree.