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Putting an 18 year old into 120k debt should be considered criminal

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posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: Answer

The op said education should be free, it's in the first post.




posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: Answer




Who has said free?


Really ?!



From the OP's very own words:



That's right, we are horrible for taking advantage of young minds and forcing them into a lifelong debt to get an education that we can easily choose to fund freely for the entire nation.



Are you asleep at the wheel or something ?



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: Answer


Ok, aside from the OP... nobody is saying that!


edit on 9/21/2014 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Aazadan

Why does the college have to do all that. Maybe people should research careers and make sure they are getting a degree they can find a job with ...


Because there are no degrees that are 100%. If we treat colleges are businesses which they pretty much are these days, they have the same responsibility to provide a product that doesn't screw the customer over for life just the same as our food providers can't poison us.

By holding colleges accountable for their loan repayments not only are they encouraged to make sure the programs they offer will allow for those repayments, but they're encouraged to make the costs cheaper as they're competing for terms and they'll even want to make partial educations more worthwhile, again so they get repaid.

This is not an argument for free education or against personal responsibility. People still need to pass classes and they need to pay for their education. It's more an argument against Caveat Emptor taken to the extreme.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I agree people thinking getting a degree entitles them to a job is a problem but why should getting a job be the focus of education? Surely that's completely the wrong approach.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 04:54 PM
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What I see as the general attitude on this post and others I've recently debated on is the general attitude that people don't care if certain groups of wealthy individuals rigging the rules for their benefit at the expense of the poor and middle class and our future generations. Their attitude seems to be that they are ok, and if you are not then too bad, you deserve to be exploited. As this is the social situation that we are going to be bequething to our children and our children's children, I don't really understand how people have been ok with being brainwashed into supporting an ever decreasing standard of living for future generations so that the wealthy can prosper more without giving anything back to the society that they have manipulated into providing themselves with luxury and power.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:04 PM
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Being in debt is akin to selling your soul, and enslaving yourself to the beast...

No matter what age you are.

Is it any wonder that our national debt is approaching $18 TRILLION?

Feed the system, feed the beast.




posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: ausername
It still amazes me. My father worked a crap job all summer before senior year in high school, at the end of summer he bought himself a brand new muscle car. These days, crap job all summer will get you a down payment for a car if you are lucky. Same goes for houses. My grandparents built a house in their early 20's for less than it costs to buy a generic car brand new these days. Some more perspective, my grandparents worked enough in both canada and the us to pull a pension in each country. After granpda died, my grandma's two pensions were not enough to support her enough to keep her house. Two pensions not enough, that is crazy! This is not a mansion here, a modest raised ranch, on a normal sized plot of land for the area.
edit on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 19:27:28 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 07:40 AM
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i didnt make it through all 11 pages but i just want to toss this out there. i dont know exactly how the student loan thing works but a lot of young adults scam the system for the cash.
now i know when most think college they think NYU and Yale... places like that.
what about community college?
does community college have the same loan program as a school like NYU? i mean do the loans come from the same place?

i dont know if this has anything to do with the cost of school or how much has to be paid back but....

you might be surprised at how many new community college attendees are scamming the loan and only there to get the check.
when i met my wife she was still in college and i would go up there with her when she had class and just hand out. i would walk around or jump online.
when the semester first started the hallways and classes were jam packed. no room at all. a few weeks later there had to be a 50% drop in students. maybe not that high but that was a lot. i asked my wife what was up cause i didnt know about the college life.

she said someone gets financial aid. for the first few weeks of class they have to show up as their attendance is recorded. after that few week mark, no more attendance is taken and the checks are cut.

what im saying is there are a lot of students that go through the motions of getting financial aid only to go to class for a couple weeks and then pocket all the cash.

we are not talking 30 grand but still, a few thousand over thousands of students is a lot of money.
my wife stayed in school and every so often she would get a check for $600 and then one would come in for $1100.
i guess its book money. supply money.
see what i mean. kids would drop out after that few week mark cause they had no intention of going to school. they just wanted the cash.

now i know that debt follows them. at some point their taxes will get taken to pay back the funds but that could take years.
not every person that ran the scam will even file taxes. at least not for years.
i used to know plenty of people in their early 30's that either worked under the table or they were a home maker and had never had a job so no taxes... that means no loan recovery.

i dont know how it works everywhere and i dont even know the ins and outs of this.
i just know the number of students dropped way off when they didnt have to be there anymore to get the money....

that has to have some kind of effect on the loan program.....



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 07:55 AM
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I am a bit older than most of you that are replying on this thread. I have not read everything within this thread, but I wanted to add a different view to a lot of the things written here:

I was 22, just divorced an abusive husband and had a small child. I dropped out of university in 1986, (with a full paid scholarship, no less), to get married to this man who was almost 12 years older than I. After I left him, I couldn't make ends meet answering phones, so I got lured into attending a school in Phoenix in 1988 for a surgical technology program. It was an 18 month program including the "externship". I borrowed roughly 8 grand to attend. I was about 2 months from graduating when the school was suddenly closed down. I was never able to complete my education. I got some kind of "certificate"in the mail from another school several months later. I ended up moving to Houston and because I had already been working in ophthalmology for a year while I was in school, I was able to get a position in a hospital scrubbing eye cases. I was trained on the job how to scrub other cases. I worked as a surgical technician ONLY within ophthalmology and was never able to get a job in an operating room. I paid about 3 or 4 grand of the loan out of pure fear of the long arm of the DOE. Then I stopped.....bad finances, I got remarried, got ill, had another child....all the things that happen in life....PLUS, I got in the mail in the mid 90's, a letter from a lawyer informing me that a class action lawsuit was being instituted against the school, (Google: Keams v Tempe Technical Institute...and the case will pop up. It went ALL the way to the supreme court!). I have not paid on that loan for close to 20 years. I never heard a word from the DOE in all those years. Then, this year, my husband and my tax return was taken by the DOE. I got a letter stating I owed 18 GRAND!!!!! 18 grand on an original 8 K loan!!! No mention of any of the payments I made...not one penny had been credited to my "account"!
When I found the case online, I read that the owners of the school went to jail, was ordered to pay back all the money they stole. They FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY.....(something I was never able to do)...and they never had to pay back the hundreds of thousands they stole from the DOE and the students. I, on the other hand, will continue to be chased and hounded and terrorized into paying back money that was stolen by a school that never gave me an education. The "certificate" I was issued was from a school I never attended!
SO...when I read these snippy comments about how people should pay back their loans no matter what...that people who do not pay them back are "losers" or "dead beats", it makes me angry all over again....BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE WHO IS DELINQUENT ON THEIR LOANS ARE DEADBEATS!!! The DOE is a LOAN SHARK!!! It is CRIMINAL when an 8 grand loan turns into an 18 grand yoke...when a person can file bankruptcy for ANY OTHER DEBT...but not for student loans....when they can come after you almost THIRTY YEARS LATER...especially when most other debts disappear or are written off after 10 years....when the people who actually STOLE the money I borrowed get LESS "punishment" than I do...THIS is the TRUE disgusting reality of the student loan mess.....not simply the cost of education...the sheer amount kids have to borrow now...it's the fact that our gov. is a LOAN SHARK!!!! They make a LOT more money with the 25% interest and all the other disgusting "fees' that just keep getting tacked on until there is no hope to ever pay off the loan!
The government can come after my social security when I am 65...for a loan I took out when I was 23...(by then I am sure it will be 30 grand!!!)
I, and a million other people, are FOREVER SLAVES to the DOE...and in some of our cases....for an education we never got!
So, young uns'.....before you point the finger and smugly comment about how YOU paid your loans and telling others who can not pay them pack, (or refuse to in cases like mine), and tell them to quit being a "dead beat" and pay your "debts".....ya'll need to realize that there is a LOT MORE to the student loan crisis than what the "media" is telling you.....not everyone who refuses to pay is a dead beat.....
And my story isn't the only one. My mother took out a 3 grand loan 35 years ago, she paid about 10 grand back over the years in garnishments and liens.....and after 35 years, they STILL want 15 grand from her....they just started taking her social security and she is now almost 66 years old and can never work due to a disability....the DOE can take disability payments too, by the way!
I can go on and on and on......




posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 07:55 AM
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I am a bit older than most of you that are replying on this thread. I have not read everything within this thread, but I wanted to add a different view to a lot of the things written here:

I was 22, just divorced an abusive husband and had a small child. I dropped out of university in 1986, (with a full paid scholarship, no less), to get married to this man who was almost 12 years older than I. After I left him, I couldn't make ends meet answering phones, so I got lured into attending a school in Phoenix in 1988 for a surgical technology program. It was an 18 month program including the "externship". I borrowed roughly 8 grand to attend. I was about 2 months from graduating when the school was suddenly closed down. I was never able to complete my education. I got some kind of "certificate"in the mail from another school several months later. I ended up moving to Houston and because I had already been working in ophthalmology for a year while I was in school, I was able to get a position in a hospital scrubbing eye cases. I was trained on the job how to scrub other cases. I worked as a surgical technician ONLY within ophthalmology and was never able to get a job in an operating room. I paid about 3 or 4 grand of the loan out of pure fear of the long arm of the DOE. Then I stopped.....bad finances, I got remarried, got ill, had another child....all the things that happen in life....PLUS, I got in the mail in the mid 90's, a letter from a lawyer informing me that a class action lawsuit was being instituted against the school, (Google: Keams v Tempe Technical Institute...and the case will pop up. It went ALL the way to the supreme court!). I have not paid on that loan for close to 20 years. I never heard a word from the DOE in all those years. Then, this year, my husband and my tax return was taken by the DOE. I got a letter stating I owed 18 GRAND!!!!! 18 grand on an original 8 K loan!!! No mention of any of the payments I made...not one penny had been credited to my "account"!
When I found the case online, I read that the owners of the school went to jail, was ordered to pay back all the money they stole. They FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY.....(something I was never able to do)...and they never had to pay back the hundreds of thousands they stole from the DOE and the students. I, on the other hand, will continue to be chased and hounded and terrorized into paying back money that was stolen by a school that never gave me an education. The "certificate" I was issued was from a school I never attended!
SO...when I read these snippy comments about how people should pay back their loans no matter what...that people who do not pay them back are "losers" or "dead beats", it makes me angry all over again....BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE WHO IS DELINQUENT ON THEIR LOANS ARE DEADBEATS!!! The DOE is a LOAN SHARK!!! It is CRIMINAL when an 8 grand loan turns into an 18 grand yoke...when a person can file bankruptcy for ANY OTHER DEBT...but not for student loans....when they can come after you almost THIRTY YEARS LATER...especially when most other debts disappear or are written off after 10 years....when the people who actually STOLE the money I borrowed get LESS "punishment" than I do...THIS is the TRUE disgusting reality of the student loan mess.....not simply the cost of education...the sheer amount kids have to borrow now...it's the fact that our gov. is a LOAN SHARK!!!! They make a LOT more money with the 25% interest and all the other disgusting "fees' that just keep getting tacked on until there is no hope to ever pay off the loan!
The government can come after my social security when I am 65...for a loan I took out when I was 23...(by then I am sure it will be 30 grand!!!)
I, and a million other people, are FOREVER SLAVES to the DOE...and in some of our cases....for an education we never got!
So, young uns'.....before you point the finger and smugly comment about how YOU paid your loans and telling others who can not pay them pack, (or refuse to in cases like mine), and tell them to quit being a "dead beat" and pay your "debts".....ya'll need to realize that there is a LOT MORE to the student loan crisis than what the "media" is telling you.....not everyone who refuses to pay is a dead beat.....
And my story isn't the only one. My mother took out a 3 grand loan 35 years ago, she paid about 10 grand back over the years in garnishments and liens.....and after 35 years, they STILL want 15 grand from her....they just started taking her social security and she is now almost 66 years old and can never work due to a disability....the DOE can take disability payments too, by the way!
I can go on and on and on......




posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: onequestion

Who is being forced again???

Oh wait, is this guy
, you know the "predator" lending officer, now forcing people to sign up for student loans, instead of home mortgages???


DAMN Predators and their barrel shroud..



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

So where does that leave SOMEONE LIKE ME? A younger person who withheld from going straight to school so that I could WORK A FEW YEARS and pay for classes? All while gaining a perspective of the world and society?

The lot of my generation DO NOT understand that actions have consequences and SOMEBODY has to pay. Why should I have to pay for their free ride? Where does that leave me other than sitting here with a bad back working overtime office jobs and a sub-par education.

These demands are absurd these kids knew FULL WELL what they were going into when they read the small print and I shouldn't have to suffer TWICE for something they suffer Zero times for.

Selfish, greedy assholes if they're educated then they should have understood that nothing is a given, and everything is a calculated risk. When you willingly make yourself responsible for tens of thousands of dollars you're stacking the deck against your favor. Truth is they just teach these kids to be shills and corporate mouthpieces, not actual common sense and actual economics.



If these students couldn't make smart choices before what makes you think they will now? Imagine to have them as future leaders and in positions of power with NO SENSE of accountability or consequence of decision?!

Truly ludicrous.
edit on 2014 by BlubberyConspiracy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: BlubberyConspiracy
Why should I have to pay for their free ride?

Because......it just isn't fair. That's why...




originally posted by: BlubberyConspiracy
Where does that leave me other than sitting here with a bad back working overtime office jobs and a sub-par education.



With feelings of resentment that all you had to do, was complain loud enough and force others to deal with your bad choices....

2014 and people are still pushing for others to foot the bill for the actions of some. You shouldn't be surprised, as responsibility comes with a price....that price is paying for others that aren't responsible.



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: macman

Because the world is as simple as responsibility and not responsibility.

thats really all it comes down to. THATS THE ANSWER TO ALL!



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

Yes.....personal responsibility for ones own actions.

You sign up, as an adult, for $100k+ for a car, school or what ever, you are responsible to pay that debt. NO ONE ELSE.



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

I love the romantic way young people see the world. If you are not a liberal by the time you are 20 you have no heart. If you are not a conservative by the time you are 30 you have no brains.


Once again I do not agree with what you are putting forward OP. Truth be told the very reason this is happening is because of the progressive mindset you are putting forward. Here me out part of the progressive plan was to push college as the the only real choice. They knew by doing this it would first of all flood the job market and lower wages and secondly it would put an entire generation in debt. Once this was accomplished the masses would cry out for change and the PTB will give it.


This is why the government took over all school loans. The progressive plan is to make things so bad people demand change...........Kinda like this OP is doing. Ironic it is.



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 08:07 PM
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agreed



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 08:54 PM
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a reply to: Cornczech
We've all done stupid stuff when we were young. Those of us who were raised with a sense of honor knew that when we signed a document and got money in return for that signature, we were honor-bound to repay the loan. What part of that do you not understand?
It is because of people like you who make no real effort to repay those debts that the current situation has arisen. The bankers love people like you because they can charge all of us more in interest and fees to cover your dishonorable behavior. Did not read the document that you signed? That part where they could come after any income if you don't make payments? Did you even attempt to get a deferral of payments? Or did you just expect them to forget about it? Seriously?
I'm eternally thankful that I had parents and grandparents who taught me to live within my means and walked the walk as well as talking the talk. And despite all their excellent teaching, I did stuff that was just stupid-squared. It took working three jobs after I sent my lazy husband back to his mother but I paid every debt. How else could I face my child? How could I tell her it was wrong to steal if I'd done just that with no consequences? How do you explain to a teenager that plastic is not your friend if she sees you waving a credit card for every purchase?

On your point of the banksters and loan sharks, I couldn't agree more. They have paid the legislatures to write all the laws and regs in their favor. When the government realized what a cash cow this could be, they simply took it over. Neat,eh? Now you can bet your bottom dollar that it will go even more out of control. If the government can't run a brothel with a liquor license and make a profit----you can see where the student loan business is headed.
Like a lot of other folks, I'd like to see the banking cartels busted up like Teddy busted the robber barons of his era.
I would agree that it is not a fair system. There's a lot of work to be done on legislators, on elections and making ourselves heard to make real change come about. But that's a whole different thread...



posted on Sep, 23 2014 @ 09:34 PM
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No it shouldnt we dont have laws to cover that stuff



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