It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Putting an 18 year old into 120k debt should be considered criminal

page: 12
16
<< 9  10  11    13  14  15 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 03:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
The tuition at the 4 year college I went to is $4,000/year.


I've gone to a few schools. I paid 15k/year at Ohio University for a bachelors and that was just tuition. For tuition+books at community college I paid exactly $7600 (the same amount Ohio gives in grants to poor people like me) per year for each of my associates degrees. At my current school where I am finishing off my education I'm paying 9k and that is by far the cheapest program I have ever found offering my field.

I strongly believe people should shop around for their education and find something that fits the finances. Sometimes that's just not possible though.

Anyways if you want to fix it one thing we could do is to remove federal student loans. Make the colleges themselves offer the loans and allow bankruptcy to discharge them. That way the college has an incentive to be competitive on rates, and to get you out and repaying the loan ASAP. They also have an incentive to make sure you're going into a program that has a job when you're done.




posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 04:23 AM
link   
a reply to: onequestion

I'm very aware of the situation today. My grandchildren and grand nieces and nephews are out there graduating and getting jobs and starting life. It is different in that they might have to move out of our area to find a high-paying job, much like my father's generation had to leave the country for Michigan to work in the automobile industry. The ones who have taken the initiative to get an education and to seek out their dream job have done well.
Just as in my youth, those who work hard and have two brains cells where money is concerned can make a good life for themselves. Those who are seduced by today's consumerism and believe that their stuff is important wind up deeply in debt. Then they sit around and whine via their e-gadgets about how they don't have the same opportunities that their parents had. Pfff!
Home mortgages were nearing 10% when we bought our first farm. It was the time of waiting in line for gasoline. Inflation was hovering around 10%. Yeah, it was good times! Jimmy Carter made things just lovely.
I think that it's not my head that is positioned in a dark place. I'm not the one standing with my hand out and demanding that someone else do the work to put me through school. I'm the one handing out money of my own free will to help those who are helping themselves. I had a lot of help to get through so I'm obligated to help others in the same manner.
I do feel sorry for those kids whose parents didn't care enough about them to save for their education. But I also know that there are ways to make it through if you have enough grit and determination. I've seen it done too many times to doubt it.
You've been brainwashed. I'm sorry for you but only time and the experiences of life will remedy that situation. You have every right to believe that everyone should be granted a free education. I have every right to do all within my power to stop you from forcibly taking my money and giving it away to others.
Today's attitude seems to be that everything should be free....education, health care, housing....what is it that you would value enough to actually work and pay for?



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 04:29 AM
link   
a reply to: intrepid

How much was your tuition compared to today for the same degree?

Pretty penny more ain't it?



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 04:33 AM
link   
a reply to: Aazadan

Why does the college have to do all that. Maybe people should research careers and make sure they are getting a degree they can find a job with ...



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 05:19 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That's the problem today, people aren't being encouraged to do what they love, or find a career they can enjoy, but instead are pushed into fields because of market demands.

The problem with that thinking us that market demands fluctuate and the field that is in high demand today, may not be so in a few years, especially if people are educating themselves according to trends in demand therefore flooding the field with recruits that outpace job availability.

You eventually end up in the same situation.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 05:39 AM
link   
a reply to: bhliberal

Well usually once demands are lowered you have work experience and will be ok getting a job. There is always more than 1 in demand job, you can do what you like and still get a degree that will get you a job.

If the choices for me are doing something I LOVE (rating of 10/10) with the odds to get a job of 2/10, or a job I will very much like (8/10) and very high odds to get a good job (8/10), I will choose the 8/10 job. Other people can choose the other option, but don't complain when you can't find a good job, that was your choice, own it.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 06:19 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I believe your ratios are off a tad, but I understand your point. And experience is a good factor too.

However, I think that, a lot of students are pushed into careers that they merely can tolerate, or get training in fields that collapse in demand after being flooded with highly trained applicants. Either the student switches majors, and extends schooling and therefore debt load for a career they can simply tolerate, or fail and waste their degree in a low pay job just to survive.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:07 AM
link   
Several thoughts come to mind regarding this:

Are we going to or are we already seeing a "educational market crash" similar to the "housing market crash" from 2007 to 2009 ?

I went to a local Community College which changed over to University status during my education. Except for free room and board, being that I lived at home with my parents while I was in school, I paid for my own tuition with student loans. It took me the full 10 years to pay it back and that was back in the 1995 to 2005 year time frame. I did not go to an extremely high tuition school but I also did not have the "prestigious" school name backing my bachelors degree upon graduation. It took me what felt like an eternity to pay it back, sometimes working three jobs just to get it done.

I have many mixed feelings about the whole education system from start to finish but I am not going to get too involved in a discussion for this thread.

I feel that perhaps a class could be offered to teach kids in high school how to prepare for their choice of furthering their education. Perhaps a class that through statistical analysis can predict what the up and coming needed career fields in the workforce will be as well as the predictions of far reaching future careers that will be needed. Maybe offer a class for each of the 4 years of High School so that during each year they can see and watch the transition of the workforce and career fields that exist and are ever changing. The class could even go on to show them an analysis of what the average typical income level will be for their field of choice throughout the years they will be in the field while paying back their student loans. A chart that can break it down so they know what to expect and how they will be able to pay it back based on the income level they will likely on average be making. Educate them so that they know they are making the right decision. Heck it could be a college class that is required if you take out student loans. A project that a student can work on themselves to see the bigger picture.

I agree with the previous poster that stated the schools could be more involved in the responsibility of the paying back of loans for students who attended their school. It would be motivational to keep the school's name in good standing that there were successful students who attended their school. A win / win situation in my opinion.

leolady



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 07:49 AM
link   
College is big business now. Everyone goes to college. It is a money making machine now.
Everyone being college educated does NOT “help the planet” or the human race. Formal college Education does not equal a better society. An Informed society that has free thinking and free will make for a better world. Education is nothing more than a tool. Non-college higher education comes in many forms. A journeyman passing his/her skills down to an apprentice would be a good example that does not include a formal College education but is definitely a career skill and trade that makes life better. Electricians, road workers, construction workers and sewage workers…to name a few, helped build this country and its infrastructure. These are all highly valuable jobs that I am sure are looked down upon.
College, in my opinion, was not meant for the masses. It was for higher education in fields the REQUIRE higher education.
The number of people who have college educations that have underwhelming jobs should point you directly at the fallacy that a college education equals a higher chance of success.
We can all argue all day long about government subsidized education, but, the government will sooner or later want to tell you what you qualify for based on an aptitude test since they are footing the bill. Sorry, you can’t be a doctor but you can be a sewage worker. The test says so. Government funding is the last thing you want in your higher education facilities.
You will not change the path of high school to college and the cost and debt as it currently stands without some kind of sacrifice. That sacrifice, whether you like it or not, will be to realize that college and extended education isn’t for everyone no matter how entitled to it you think you are.
The world needs ditch diggers too.

edit on 21-9-2014 by wdkirk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 10:18 AM
link   
a reply to: onequestion

I joined the military to pay for my school...it is not for everyone but man its free school.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 10:21 AM
link   
Suck it up buttercup. Getting a degree doesn't entitle you to a job or guarantee you can pay off your debt. Try a trade. Don't expect the rest of to share your dreams, let alone pay for them.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 10:22 AM
link   
In an ideal worl, yes, education should be free. But for now, it does need to be made less expensive. This corrupt system that has been set up to leech off us 'til we die has got to go. It makes me appreciate Shakespeare more.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 12:22 PM
link   
Looking around a bit, education is free. Just a few examples and the history behind it.

But you have to spend money for the almighty degree that lands you the good job. Unless of course the company you are applying to is reasonably intelligent enough to realize that you did acquire an education. And glancing at the coursera site, they offer free classes in writing apps for both Android and iOS. And I think that a game called Angry Birds made a few bucks for a small time developer.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 12:57 PM
link   
lets step back a second and think about what this debate is. The point was that a higher education in a reasonable career field is the most LIKELY path to increase your future opportunity. We all know this is the standard line. However, the increasing costs of education and the lowering of wages are an effective method of lowering our social mobility and opportunity, increasing the likelihood that we will all be wage slaves. This is a system set up specifically for this, to create a cheap, desperate labor force indebted to the banks and at the mercy of powerful businesses. The idea that we can just work hard to get ahead is not a reality, and the idea that we can all be the lucky one to create a hit app is as spurious as the idea we can all be the lucky one to make it big as a rock star or sports athlete. The system is stacked against us. The idea posited here is that "free" (not really) education would help level the playing field. I think it has been statistically shown that almost every nation now with free education has more social mobility than the US for profit system.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 02:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: pexx421
lets step back a second and think about what this debate is. The point was that a higher education in a reasonable career field is the most LIKELY path to increase your future opportunity. We all know this is the standard line. However, the increasing costs of education and the lowering of wages are an effective method of lowering our social mobility and opportunity, increasing the likelihood that we will all be wage slaves. This is a system set up specifically for this, to create a cheap, desperate labor force indebted to the banks and at the mercy of powerful businesses. The idea that we can just work hard to get ahead is not a reality, and the idea that we can all be the lucky one to create a hit app is as spurious as the idea we can all be the lucky one to make it big as a rock star or sports athlete. The system is stacked against us. The idea posited here is that "free" (not really) education would help level the playing field. I think it has been statistically shown that almost every nation now with free education has more social mobility than the US for profit system.


I wish I could star your post multiple times. Finally, someone else who knows what's actually being said.

I still haven't seen anyone advocate free education OR taxpayer help paying back their loans but those are the topics being argued against by many of the posters. What has been advocated is a more affordable system that keeps students from being buried in debt.

The argument keeps coming up "don't get a liberal arts degree" "research and find something that will make you money" "I did it this way and blah blah blah." The reality of the situation is that regardless which field is chosen, it is never a guarantee. People are graduating college with loads of debt that they WERE TOLD BY THEIR ELDERS and counselors would not matter because they'd have a great high-paying job. Young people don't know the future. Just because you were one of the lucky ones doesn't mean everyone else is too stupid to make correct decisions.

The point I'm trying to make is not "let's tax people more so education can be free for lazy kids who don't want to work." Stop turning the issue into that for the sake of dramatic replies. The point is that higher education should not be a multi-billion dollar industry that preys on the ignorance of young people. It should not be a system designed to load people with debt before they even have a chance to understand how the world really works. I really don't care what your anecdotal story is about how well everything worked out for you, it doesn't change the reality of the situation. I graduated, got a job, paid off my loans, and I make a decent living earning six figures but I'm smart enough to know that my story is irrelevant to the reality of the PROBLEM facing our society. You folks that keep saying you don't care what happens because you're doing fine... you WILL feel the effects eventually. We all will. Stop turning this into an argument of personal responsibility vs socialist beliefs. That's not the issue. Ignoring this problem just because you're doing ok will not make it go away.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 02:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: pexx421
lets step back a second and think about what this debate is. The point was that a higher education in a reasonable career field is the most LIKELY path to increase your future opportunity. We all know this is the standard line. However, the increasing costs of education and the lowering of wages are an effective method of lowering our social mobility and opportunity, increasing the likelihood that we will all be wage slaves. This is a system set up specifically for this, to create a cheap, desperate labor force indebted to the banks and at the mercy of powerful businesses. The idea that we can just work hard to get ahead is not a reality, and the idea that we can all be the lucky one to create a hit app is as spurious as the idea we can all be the lucky one to make it big as a rock star or sports athlete. The system is stacked against us. The idea posited here is that "free" (not really) education would help level the playing field. I think it has been statistically shown that almost every nation now with free education has more social mobility than the US for profit system.


I wish I could star your post multiple times. Finally, someone else who knows what's actually being said.

I still haven't seen anyone advocate free education OR taxpayer help paying back their loans but those are the topics being argued against by many of the posters. What has been advocated is a more affordable system that keeps students from being buried in debt.

The argument keeps coming up "don't get a liberal arts degree" "research and find something that will make you money" "I did it this way and blah blah blah." The reality of the situation is that regardless which field is chosen, it is never a guarantee. People are graduating college with loads of debt that they WERE TOLD BY THEIR ELDERS and counselors would not matter because they'd have a great high-paying job. Young people don't know the future. Just because you were one of the lucky ones doesn't mean everyone else is too stupid to make correct decisions.

The point I'm trying to make is not "let's tax people more so education can be free for lazy kids who don't want to work." Stop turning the issue into that for the sake of dramatic replies. The point is that higher education should not be a multi-billion dollar industry that preys on the ignorance of young people. It should not be a system designed to load people with debt before they even have a chance to understand how the world really works. I really don't care what your anecdotal story is about how well everything worked out for you, it doesn't change the reality of the situation. I graduated, got a job, paid off my loans, and I make a decent living earning six figures but I'm smart enough to know that my story is irrelevant to the reality of the PROBLEM facing our society. You folks that keep saying you don't care what happens because you're doing fine... you WILL feel the effects eventually. We all will. Stop turning this into an argument of personal responsibility vs socialist beliefs. That's not the issue. Ignoring this problem just because you're doing ok will not make it go away.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 02:27 PM
link   
a reply to: intrepid

You make education sound like a bad thing.

This alongside healthcare is what baffles me about the US - everyone benefits from an educated populace and it causes major economic growth so why would anyone want a system so only the rich can take part?



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 02:56 PM
link   
Threads like this on ATS make me laugh my ass off.

You people whining about how post-secondary education should be free are the first people whining in other threads about how horrible a socialist system is.

The public education system from grades K-12, scholarships, bursaries, etc... are all a part that horrible socialist system you bleat against day after day.

Make up your fricken minds.




posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 03:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: CranialSponge
Threads like this on ATS make me laugh my ass off.

You people whining about how post-secondary education should be free are the first people whining in other threads about how horrible a socialist system is.

The public education system from grades K-12, scholarships, bursaries, etc... are all a part that horrible socialist system you bleat against day after day.

Make up your fricken minds.



Who has said free?

I've seen that claim from MULTIPLE POSTERS arguing against socialist ideas but I have not seen one proponent of FREE higher education in this thread. Why is it impossible for people to avoid straw man arguments? You're adding nothing to the discussion.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 03:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Answer

Our tax dollars go to war I stead of education.

Many countries successfully provide educational opportunities for free and their entire culture benefits from it.

There's no such thing as free you pay taxes your entire life.

I want my tax dollars to go to education and not war or prison period.




top topics



 
16
<< 9  10  11    13  14  15 >>

log in

join