damn do i hate working on newer vehicles

Not wanting to cause thread drift but these are what we made in that shop yrs ago. The pic is from about 2003 or so. Yah, it's beat up. LOL! It was a Great Job and I learned a lot of machining too. Didn't use our CNC though. Used older Radial Arm Drills, End Mills, Planers, etc. I was mainly a Welder after the first year.
This Behemoth took up two rail cars. Each white cap covers a tube, that came in 20 foot sections that we welded together for the 100 feet each needed. Inside the Dryer were also 'sheets' that had holes for running the tubes through. In the background of that car were the 'tires'. Huge 'perfectly' machined steel that slipped over each end of the Dryer, that rode on Trunnion Rolls under each end of the Dryer. Massive undertaking getting these Beasts out of the shop and onto the rail cars.
We would work on our vehicles in the shop late at night at times. So that goes along with your thread here I guess! LOL!!!
click for larger

a reply to: smithjustinb

But, from what I've heard, trannies do suck.

Anyways, I drive a very old petrol Ford Mondeo, my second one, first one was a diesel. Unfortunately Wilma is to be sent to the heavenly scrap yard next March. But what to get instead of her?

Two weeks ago I was in a brand spankers new Zetec. It has more lights on it than a foookin christmas tree! No normal dials, just bar graphs of warnings like a graphic equaliser on speed. Gone are the analogue type clocks telling you all you need to know, to be replace by a central screen which alternates between an equaliser, a gps and your CD controller which goes into detail about the current track you are playing from the arse end of the car. No knobs and switches....nope....buttons and paddles a plenty! You need to re-sit your exam just to drive one or at least have a pilots license! Hell's bells, even a cessna (which I've flown) is easier to read than this 'baby'!

So, an ex army 4x4 land rover will do me fine (except they are like hen's teeth and gone way up in price....I wonder why?...sarcasm). At least with global warming I'll be able to take the door off and cook myself a full english! Show me a modern contraption that will do that hey! .

And when it gets too warm....global warming again.....at least I can wind my windows down.....wont be able to do that with one of these sensor laden things when it goes awol! My tool kit will probably consist of a can of WD40, gaffer tape (colour co-ordinated of course) a pair of tights, universal spanner, a hammer, and water filled milk container!


Jane

a reply to: SyxPak

thats sweet man.
i love machine shops

Well the good news is that those born after 1975 probably will not have the credit to lease a car at 11%, or any other percent.

At least old cars are cheap now, and fixeruppers are better. But as some find out, parts are what cost you A LOT even on the aftermarket. Pick N Pull isn't really a good option as most good parts are already pulled by the place from when they get there.

People need to get into scooters and motorcycles. Cheaper, easier to mod, and better on gas.

originally posted by: ArchPlayer

People need to get into scooters and motorcycles. Cheaper, easier to mod, and better on gas.

and comfy for the whole family.

i love bikes man. cant justify it when i need a family vehicle and with ohio winters i have to garage the scoot for 5 months

A little about my background in the world of working on newer vehicles. I started as a tech in a GM, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Subaru dealership around the end of 1986. I was just out of trade school and had it in my mind that's what I wanted to do for a living. I worked my way up to Shop Forman in 1994, was the youngest one in the 50+ years that this dealer had been in business so needless to say I took every class I could and took the hardest jobs that came in the place. I have probably 2500 hours of GM training, close to 3000 hours of Mopar and maybe 1200 of Subaru. I guess my specialized area was electronics and data bus communications. I also did some part time teaching to inmates at a state correctional rehab center.

It is damn hard to keep up with the technology that comes from these companies. Most people wouldn't believe what it takes to keep a masters certification in every area and take every class that they want. One must also keep all the ASE's up to date. I have all the automotive ones including L1, Diesel and I also have my Masters in the Paint and Collision area as well. I retired in Jan of this year, health had got the best of me and I just couldn't do it anymore.

I suppose my main rant here is the fact of the crap that comes out of the factory and just how cheap its really made. The quality is just not there. I also got so sick and tired of all the electrical gizmo's that seem to infect the modern automobile.. Every year its more and more to deal with and IMO most of it is use less. The infotainment system on most of these cars and trucks is crazy, way too many buttons, touch screen issues ect to deal with. Its no wonder drivers get distracted any more. Just trying to turn the AC system on can be a challenge.

Not to offend anyone but my next rant would be about the customers.. bad point I know but most people have no idea how complex these vehicles are, for example how the traction system works or what stability control system is and how it works. There are so many new features and technology that its just too far ahead of the normal person. Hardly anyone reads their owners manuals to figure out how to work the rear DVD infotainment pod in a new minivan or how to pair their old phone via Bluetooth. I blame sales department for not educating the customer about his or her product, most of the sales people didn't know either it seems.

I cant recall all the times I had to hear I pay 850 a month for this or do you know how much gas Ive spent bringing my car in for service or some other type of complaint. I have had many customers threaten me, cuss me, go to the General Manager and my favorite "Im going to talk to my lawyer about this" and my answer would be does your lawyer fix cars in his spare time?? Now please don't get me wrong, I do understand the frustrations that customers have and I have been there my self, but I didn't build it, I didn't engineer it, I didn't sell it, I didn't make you buy it.. Im here to fix the issues you have and try to make you happy.

Its sad that a lot of these issues cant be fixed by the manufacture. When we (techs) would run out of ideas and had made the 10 - 20 phone calls to technical assistance trying to get the answers we needed it would be like hitting a brick wall. I have seen many field engineers come out to the dealership and try to solve the concern and still at times the vehicle would get bought back from the customer because the factory people couldn't fix them either.

I guess what Im saying is these products are man made and they are going to fail, none of them are perfect they ALL have issues so take it easy on the poor tech that's trying to work with you and get your problems addressed. As a person that took great pride in my work and education I would do whatever I could to make sure your car/truck was safe and treated with respect.

Just take a moment and calm down when you take something in to get it fixed, try and understand how complicated it can be and try to provide helpful answers to questions that should be asked and provide any info you can about your concern.

To the OP I can relate to your pain, It would have to be hard to work on this stuff with a hand tore up that bad. This job will take a toll on a person both physically and mentally over the years its not a walk in the park.

a reply to: rogue7573

i hear you about the customers. i feel kind of the same way. the thing that bugs me the most is things like this.

someone will say something like "fords suck i will never drive one. my dad had one and all it had was problems"

something like that.

my answer to that, from a mechanic stand point has always been 'no, they dont suck'(swap ford for gm...dont matter)

i always bring questions to that little bit of info.

well you said your dads truck always had problems....
did he make sure the oil was changed? preventative maint???
you know, that kind of stuff.

i have my preferences on manufacturers as well but i wouldnt say that ford sucks or gm sucks.

i have always been of the opinion that if you buy a used car you dont really know what youre getting into because you dont(in most cases) know all the history.

i have also been of the opinion that if you buy a new car(ford, gm, whatever) and you do your preventive maint. and drive it within the confines of its intended use then you will have a vehicle that lasts you for a long time.
i am not saying that 30k for a new ride is a good deal. just saying that if you take care of it, its gonna last.

i mean if you buy a truck then make sure you stay within the payload. if you buy a truck and plan to pull things with it then you better get a trans cooler.

when they say my dads ford blew a timing belt at 110k miles, my response has always been "when did he have it changed"

things like that have always bugged me

in my opinion, a new ford f-150 will last you just as long as a dodge ram and just as long as a chevy silverado, if you take care of it.

im sure you know what i mean

also, im glad im out of the dealership now. onstar was just kind of gaining momentum when i stopped.

these days with all the data ports and electronics....man, thats just a nightmare for a tech(among other things)
just like you said

a reply to: CardiffGiant

I couldn't agree more. Maintenance is seldom performed when its required. I think a lot of that has to do with education of the customer because they haven't been shown how to check the oil or even how to check tire pressure. I also know a lot of people cant do it because of health reasons or what ever and I understand that, but take it to someone who knows what to look at.

It wasn't my car you downloaded codes for? 3400 V6 had a problem with EGR control, and reflashing the EPROM was how it was fixed. Of course that was years ago and lucklily done under warranty along with the LIM gasket.

New stuff isn't all bad. I remember carbuerated cars that always had a problem with stupid vapor lock and choke adjustments that would never hold. Always had to go under the hood with a screwdriver to get 'em running. Not to mention gumming up if they were left too long. All those problems completely went away with fuel injection, the cars I remember since then started and ran much more reliably.

For a little while during the 1980's computer cars were easier to work on. Right during that period when throttle body injectors were still in use. None of the problems with carbs, none of the real stupidity that was electronic carbs, yet the fuel injectors were where you could see them working, and everything else was still designed easy enough to access.

I'd suppose that a lot of automotive engineering must be done by people that never have to work on their own ####. If they did, they'd probably redesign it after making their knuckles bleed a few times. In my car it's a PITA to get the headlights or front signal bulbs changed. A whole cover panel with 16 pop-clips has to be removed first, and there's a retaining clip that's a serious b#### to get out, before removing the entire headlight assembly which can really scratch up your paint if not careful. Sliding it back in involves getting these fragile plastic tabs to go into the slots for the clip, and if you break one - you pretty much have to buy another $200 headlight assembly.

My family is from Detroit and has been working in the auto industry since the 1920's. My Grandfather got an engineering job at the Flint Chevrolet plant. When the Great Depression hit, no body was buying any Chevy's so he got transferred to Saginaw Steering(people were still buying Cadillacs and Trucks that needed steering gear). Eventually the Depression got worse and they stopped buying those also, and he got laid off again. He then got hired by Packard Motor Car(they were like Rolls Royces that the super rich could buy, and did) in Detroit. When Packard Went out of business in 1955, he got hired by Chrysler and worked there until 1972, when he retired. He collected a fat pension until he died at 94 years old.
Our families' bread and butter(and a little more) came from the American auto industry, so we were not permitted to even look at a foreign built car. Maybe a GM, or a Ford(Mustangs were sweet!). I always wanted an American car, and never thought I would never own a foreign car. As I grew up, I drove them(had a sweet 5.0 Mustang), and with my Grandfather's help, I easily repaired them.
When I was 18, I thought it would be a great Idea to Apply at the Ford Wixom Lincoln Assembly Plant. I thought, I love cars, I might as well make them. It seems to pay well, and I am very mechanical. I went down to the personnel office at the plant and asked to fill out an application(1984). The man there laughed at me and said:"Boy, we have not had open hiring here since 1979". He then finished with the line:"Ha, ha,ha, Boy, you need to gets 'glombamly(sic) competitive'".
I walked out, and thought that hick may be right. I then went to College, graduated, and then went to Law School and became a Lawyer. Along the way, I applied several times at Chrysler, Ford, and GM. None of them even sent a rejection letter. No one from my High School Class(in the Shadow of the Wixom Plant) got hired by Ford. No one in the Class prior, and no one in the Class later. I don't think I have ever heard of anyone from my generation getting hired by one of the auto plants. That plant is no longer there. Even though it was one of Ford's newest, and most productive plants, It is gone. It is just a giant grass field now. They shipped production overseas and to Mexico.
Over the years, as I realized I probably would never have an Auto-related career, the guilt of possibly owning a foreign car has slowly evaporated. finally, I actually bought a Honda.
That car has been the most incredible car I have ever owned. It rarely has mechanical problems, it is easy to work on, and every bolt, no matter how small, or rusted, has actually come out clean. I have over 300K miles on it now. It looks like it may go 400K. I am shocked at every turn, how superlative the design, build, and assembly engineering is on the thing. All those years of owning American Cars, and replacing Water Pumps, Alternators, Radiators, Starters, Fuel Pumps, Ball Joints, Transmissions, Electrical parts, CV Joints, CPU's. ETC. All that money and time spent fixing them, (and the down-time and lost work) could have been avoided.
My advice to the OP, is to buy a Honda. There is a Up-front premium cost because word is out at how high their quality is. Dealers don't dicker on the sticker price, and it hard to find a cheap used one. Everything on the car can be fixed by a shade-tree mechanic at home(but rarely needs to be fixed).

CONCLUSION:
(1) Buy a Honda, you will live a lot longer,
and
(2) I did eventually get "Globally Competitive" and can now buy any car I want (Ford never actually did).
(3).Don't feel patriotic to the point of your own detriment, they gave up hiring us long ago.

a reply to: CardiffGiant

I am the same way with computers. Did you know that the Lenovo Yoga has only one board, all ram and storage is built into it.

a reply to: CardiffGiant

Hey There,
I hope you have received some Top Quality Repair
on you Hand. Man, You really shredded the hell out of it.

That will take quite a while to heal properly.
I hope you have a helper.

Wishing You Well, Wildmaninimal