It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The ways of sacrifice; Abraham and Isaac

page: 3
6
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:05 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

And Jeremiah 8:8 tells us what about your scripture? Or, Isaiah 30?

Something about never trusting the rebellious house ever? That would include YHWH claiming he made creation. Lol.

Would you like me to quote that segment to?




posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: Not Authorized
And Jeremiah 8:8 tells us what about your scripture? Or, Isaiah 30?

Nothing in particular about the passage we're discussing.
I'm not going to be drawn by the scatter-gun approach.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:16 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI




This being a thread on Christian/Biblical theology, it is obviously based on Christian/Biblical scriptures.


Obviously it was the Christians that edited and altered the story line, not the Hebrews, so that it fit with their mythology of the dying and resurrected God. It was the Jewish God that they killed, who they resurrected as Jesus (pagan) Christ, by the way. The King is Dead! Long Live the King.

Seriously, you can't have it both ways. Either Christianity is the outcome of Hebrew mythology or it isn't, When they have to change Hebrew mythology to make Hebrew mythology fit the Christian agenda, something starts stinking to high heaven!

I love that Christians never really address Abraham's sin of listening to his wife, like Adam did, and distrusting "God's" promise and demonstrating that mistrust by siring Ishmael through Hagar. Then, he listens to his wife again, the one who snickered at God's promise, and throws out Hagar and Ishmael.

Really? Do you think it ends there....and, Abraham's "real" story begins with the sacrifice of Isaac? Do you really think that God would have made that request if Abraham DIDN'T reject Ishmael and Hagar, because of Sarah?








edit on 20-9-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: windword
Do you really think that God would have made that request if Abraham DIDN'T reject Ishmael because of Sarah?

Absolutely nothing in the Genesis text suggests any connection between the two events.
In fact Abraham had already tried to recommend Ishmael to God's favour, but God himself had identified Isaac as preferred covenant partner. ch17 vv18-21



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:34 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

I could have sworn God was not a "respecter of persons"

Interesting thread by the way... I had planned to chime in but it seems others beat me to it...




posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:37 PM
link   
a reply to: Akragon
Well, he spends much of the OT making choices between options.
Not just Isaac and Ishmael, but Jacob and Esau, Ephraim and Manasseh, etc.
He has a penchant for younger brothers for some reason. As an older brother myself, I ought to feel aggrieved, but there seems to be a purpose in it.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:43 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

Considering the personality we're talking about...

Perhaps he tends to choose the more naïve of the two




posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:44 PM
link   
a reply to: Akragon
Or the weaker, and therefore less prone to think he did it all on his own.
Consistent with choosing the weak Israelites as partners rather than the strong and proud Egyptians.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:54 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI




Absolutely nothing in the Genesis text suggests any connection between the two events.


That's because Genesis doesn't tell the whole story. It's a truncated version of a larger tale with implications other than those that are supposedly foreshadowing the "sacrifice of Jesus", that Christians like to tout.

Early texts of Genesis go little further than the first 34 verses of the creation story. Enoch and Noah and the flood are later additions, as well as the stories of Abraham and certainly those of Moses and Aaron.


edit on 20-9-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 12:55 PM
link   
a reply to: windword
This being a Biblical thread rather than a Jubilees thread, the Genesis story is the one that concerns me.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:02 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

Mythology doesn't concern me. It bears no semblance on reality. It was a made up story by so called religious men, inserting a God just as pathological as they were to the mix, in order to promote war, oppression, and nationalism. Sadly, those most oppressed, are them that believe that myth as fact.

Your story is a prime example. It is still used for oppressing people, today.

Time to end that template, and move on. It is a very violent and malevolent way of thinking. It has no place as a beacon of morality.


edit on 20-9-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: DISRAELI

Mythology doesn't concern me...Time to end that template, and move on.

If you're not interested in the topic, then yes, you may as well move on.
It does concern me, so I intend to continue dealing with it.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:09 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

I am concerned said nationalism and mythology is still used today to promote genocide, intolerant people, and war. That is my interest.

It should be confronted and accepting it as unquestionable truth should be abolished. You should be more concerned to how said words make you think and treat others.
edit on 20-9-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-9-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:10 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

You mean the Roman Catholic approved Christian version of the Book of Genesis that they created, from editing various ancient texts of their choosing, that backed up the story that they were promoting. Certainly NOT the genuine stories of antiquity, that that had been transmitted orally by Hebrews, generation to generation, for hundreds, if not thousands of years, and finally written down by Hebrews.

The Book of Jubilees version of the Abraham story is the same version of stories that the Hebrew people, including Jesus himself, if he existed, told. There was no version of Genesis, as we know it today, found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

This is yet another example of Christians trying to rewrite history and mythological accounts to suit their premise that Hebrew mythology foreshadows Jesus (pagan) Christ. Unfortunately, they had to write their own version of Hebrew mythology, editing out the inconvenient parts, to make it work.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Not Authorized
I do not intend to discuss the subject of religion in general.
My topic is limited to the story of Abraham and Isaac.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:13 PM
link   
a reply to: windword
The Jews have the same text of Genesis, and they did not get it from the Christian church.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:15 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

A story that is fable, and promotes a murderous desert God. One who clearly needs a mental evaluation and a sanity check.

The whole story is sadistic, in the extreme. No real God would even consider using sadistic tendencies to promote a lesson of love.
edit on 20-9-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:18 PM
link   
a reply to: Not Authorized
We're going round in circles now.
I disagree with your assessment.
A sadistic God would have allowed the son to be sacrificed anyway; this story is intended tohave a very different lesson.



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:27 PM
link   
a reply to: DISRAELI

I would argue that a sadistic God would ask for blood....

whether it be the blood of an innocent animal or a man...

Furthermore, the very idea that sin can be resolved by placing it on another, and spilling said beings blood is rather disgusting and sadistic in itself

I realise you believe this god had not intended to actually let Abraham kill his son, but the story tells the truth of the matter... this god had every intention of Isaac's death happening... Angels stopped him, not this god...

Angels do not disobey or prevent God from his will... This was not God...

Nor were the angels his...




posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 01:31 PM
link   
a reply to: Not Authorized




The whole story is sadistic, in the extreme. No real God would even consider using sadistic tendencies to promote a lesson of love.


The Hebrew version of the story is retold and echoed in the story of Job. It seems it was a familiar theme, that there was a God out there that enjoyed playing poker with mankind's appointed adversary, to the point of sadism. And then of course, there's the big reward!



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join