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Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be Jesus' disciple

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posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."


source: gospel of Thomas, verse 55

What are your thoughts about this verse?

I think it is true.

Gospel of Thomas is a gnostic scripture, so "Jesus" might have a slightly different meaning than it has in the bible. If a disciple of Jesus is a gnostic initiate then I believe it is true that you cannot be that if you do not hate your parents and siblings.
edit on 13930Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:13:05 -0500201405pAmerica/Chicago2014-09-19T11:13:05-05:0030 by introspectionist because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: introspectionist

Gospel of Thomas is not biblical. Gnostic junk. If you really want some insanity, go read the Apocalypse of peter, another book of gnostic junk which rejoices in pure torture.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 11:22 AM
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What he probably meant, was to everybody have their own way of thinking. Free thinkers.

Jesus was promoting a democracy as long as they followed a set of morals rules. And live accordingly.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: introspectionist

Yeah, that's a powerful and confusing bit of Luke and it finishes up with the even more cryptic suggestion about being "salty".

I think Jesus was trying to impress the cost of discipleship upon those that were thinking about following him. Trying to tell them that it should require the same deep consideration and planning that a general would engage in before going to war.

Sumpin' like that.




posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 11:36 AM
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My personal idea is that it is not junk, nor an allegory. To become a gnostic initiate you probably have to be in some deep dark misery first, totally alienated from all human beings. In other words, someone labelled mentally disordered.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: introspectionist

Why does it matter if the Gospel of Thomas is a gnostic scripture since the same verse (essentially) is also in Luke:

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple”

I always thought this would make more sense if it were the other way around. Like "If they don't hate you, you can't be with me" type of thing, compounding the notion that your faith will ruffle some feathers. But... the way it's written, I've yet to hear a decent explanation of it.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

Well the same verse is in the gospels as well...

I love it when a Christian comes along and calls gnostic writing junk...

Sigh... such ignorance

He doesn't actually mean one should hate their siblings or parents...

IF people would read the gospels they would realise he talked about the flesh vs the spirit quite a lot...

This is what he was saying... hate the flesh, it profits you nothing...




posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

Get ready. Not much time left


______beforeitsnews/prophecy/2014/09/brand-new-startling-information-why-the-tribulation-must-begin-next-year-2015-greatest-mystery-of-the-sevens -and-the-blood-moons-solved-you-will-be-stunned-just-released-video-2464242.html

edit on 19-9-2014 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



Soon
edit on 19-9-2014 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: introspectionist

Why does it matter if the Gospel of Thomas is a gnostic scripture since the same verse (essentially) is also in Luke:

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple”
Ok, thanks. Didn't know that.



I always thought this would make more sense if it were the other way around. Like "If they don't hate you, you can't be with me" type of thing, compounding the notion that your faith will ruffle some feathers. But... the way it's written, I've yet to hear a decent explanation of it.
I don't know anything, but this is how I think it works, this is how I have been philosophizing lately:

Humanity can be divided into three categories, Muslims, Christians and Jews. Muslims are the youngest souls. They are still innocent, but also inexperienced.

Christians are the useful idiots, the ones that have fallen astray. However, this stage is necessary in the evolution for their own and everybody's development.

The Jews are the ones that were so far astray that they were in total darkness. And then they were shown, and in some cases still remain to be shown, the light. This is the same as a gnostic initiate. And to be in total darkness entails hating everybody.

This video is in my view a good illustration of the process:




posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: infolurker

Are you people ever going to stop trying to predict the "tribulation"

After 2000 years... give it up for Gods sake...

No man knows the hour...




posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:23 PM
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This doesn't make sense. Jesus's mother and brother were following him around.

I don't know how this was interpreted in this gospel, it is not what Jesus was teaching other places.

I don't know why some people are obsessed with the tribulation? I mean any disaster can kill us. Our little world dies with us when we die. Others little worlds go on just fine. If there is a big disaster, as there have been in the past, some people will live and some will die. I try to be honest and good because I want to not because religion forces me to. I don't want to be remembered in the wrong way.
edit on 19-9-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: introspectionist

Why does it matter if the Gospel of Thomas is a gnostic scripture since the same verse (essentially) is also in Luke:

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple”

I always thought this would make more sense if it were the other way around. Like "If they don't hate you, you can't be with me" type of thing, compounding the notion that your faith will ruffle some feathers. But... the way it's written, I've yet to hear a decent explanation of it.






To fully understand Christ’s meaning here, the meaning of the Greek word translated “hate” must be examined. In this verse, the original Greek word is miseo, meaning “TO LOVE LESS” (Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible).


It seems clear if taking all sources into account and the admonition to LOVE and to honor parents etc. If you have unbelieving family you must turn from their course leave them behind.



The conclusion of the whole matter, as Solomon wrote, in Ecclesiastes 12:13, is that we are to “…Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole…man.” In Matthew 19:29, Christ pronounced the ultimate reward for those who sacrifice in this life in order to live God’s Way: “And every one that has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.”



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:32 PM
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You can see it as a hatred of the unchanged old that humanity have not evolved past yet. I have had thoughts where I love my parents for being what they are but still can be very annoyed at them and their ancestors for not progressing humanity further than this.

The whole power pyramid scheme with trickle up wealth in different forms is parasitical in nature and should long ago have been abandoned for a golden rule based system where the parasitical nature of human greed is not allowed.

Religion itself are sometimes in the way to create symbiosis between soul brothers and soul sisters for small minded reasons.

If I do Reiki (laying of hands) in a way that do not follow religious dogma I am evil according to some when my intent is to help the person for their benefit since I do not use Jesus name when I do it.

Insanity. Blessed ones: Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Nanak and Rumi. Some of your followers just do not get it.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: introspectionist

It's called heavy and light. It's a Jewish teaching tool. It's using extreme hyperbole to make a point.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:44 PM
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I think he meant hate their ways and/or not caring for their earthly sensitivities. I think he was saying that if you had the kind of love for someone that caused you to side with them when they are wrong, you could not be a disciple.


Mark 12:14 (KJV)
14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse


I don't know how this was interpreted in this gospel, it is not what Jesus was teaching other places.

zardust has it right -- Jesus was using hyperbole, he didn't really mean to hate your father and mother, which would violate the Commandment. Same thing with the "if your right hand offends you, cut it off" -- he didn't really want people to mutilate themselves, he was overstating things to better make his point.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: adjensen

Wouldn't the use of hyperbole go against saying "just yes or no"...

because anything more then that is from evil?




posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: Akragon


Wouldn't the use of hyperbole go against saying "just yes or no"…

Huh?



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 01:25 PM
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At one point he did deny his mother and brother while proclaiming that those with him are his family now. Many verses parallel this verse and overall it is painting a picture that is hard to see. Verses about how in the last days he will drive families against one another to the point of death and being sold. In the end we will all have to make hard choices about family and friends and i fear the family unit as we know it will not all end up together but then you have to take into account your spiritual family also.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: adjensen

T'was just a thought... Mat 5:37

Issues against exaggeration...




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