It's Just a "Do-Over"

a reply to: tetra50

I'm paying attention, but you are being vague. If there is something in total control of every thought, action, atom, that will repeat over and over with the exact same results, what is there to be gained? It's purposeless and if anyone truly believed that why would they even go on living?

a reply to: tetra50
Sorry, but it sounds like you are freaking out. Don't do that. Just because we made the same mistakes on different levels again and again doesn't mean the spiral is unescapable.
I belive we are experiencing this and may finally be rational enough to grasp what it is for a reason. This is the shift, when we accept our free will even if it is attached to fate, but don't give away your freedom. That's what all the training was for all the millenia before, now we prove we are grown, we don't panic, we stay rational, we will find out what IT is, before we blame all our behaviour on it, because that is pretty much what kept us in the dark ages for so long.
If you feel you lost control, regain control, even if it means you have to focus on every tiny move and every tiny thought, but stay in charge.

a reply to: Darksea13
You truly think you are in control of that going on living thing anyway?

well, I'm happy for you.

As for the rest:

If there is something in total control of every thought, action, atom, that will repeat over and over with the exact same results, what is there to be gained?

I suppose just a reinforcement of whatever the CS (Control System) would wish to go down in the history, whatever history results from us being here, that is….and really, that's the question: Is there anything beyond the controlled here? And if so, what does that mean for us.

I don't think that I'm being vague at all. That's the only thing you've written which stupefies me thus far……
But then, I'm easily stupefied. The thread exists to inform those who may not have yet remembered, or caught the current drift….you'll see it here, if you read enough: allusions to the need for a reset, for example. All these references exist to tell you that what I describe may very well be true, but also that others know it, recognize it, refer to it: the reset, that is, and therefore, the re-do……

or is that a psy-ops?
lol
tetra

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: tetra50
Sorry, but it sounds like you are freaking out. Don't do that. Just because we made the same misatakes on different levels again and again doesn't mean the spiral is unescapable.
I belive we are experiencing this and may finally be rational enough to grasp what it is for a reason. This is the shift, when we accept our free will even if it is attached to fate, but don't give away your freedom. That's what all the training was for all the millenia before, now we prove we are grown, we don't panic, we stay rational, we will find out what IT is, before we blame all our behaviour on it, because that is pretty much what kept us in the dark ages for so long.
If you feel you lost control, regain control, even if it means you have to focus on every tiny move and every tiny thought, but stay in charge.

Interesing, because you and I have met before on the boards and not really understood. But interesting, because I've hoped for what you speak of, for sure, and waited for that. And just that much understanding is important, in and of itself, whether I believe what you describe is for true and real anyway.

The point of the thread, written a while ago, which should tell you I'm NOT freaking out, or I wouldn't still be here cohesively replying….is just to let any noobs know what they may not yet have remembered or what the game is hereabouts, either way…..

But thanks, peeple. Ima not freaking, tho….not quite yet.
tetra

a reply to: tetra50

What specific experience or group of experiences led you to this perception of reality? I just don't understand how you can come to this conclusion, but not know the why behind it. The only way I can see the idea of a perpetual time loop existing is with free will.

a reply to: Darksea13

Hey Darksea: I appreciate your reading and contributing to my thread. Perhaps I wrote this thread in a fit of picque. We'll never really know. But I did't write it, specifically, as a point of argument, or in a forum where it needed factual support for a reason….because I wasn't going to do that.

I see you're a little new around here. No problem, and welcome aboard. Read the site. Read, read, read. If you want a clue to a specific member and what they're writing, it also helps to check out their profile, and read what else they've written. But specifically, as to what you've asked of me hereabouts, my suggestion is to read, read, read. Then you won't come back asking me these questions anymore, cause it's already all written down, and I'm not interested in spending time on repackaging all that for you. Sorry, if that's abrupt. But I have to say, the majority of the time I spend on this site, has always been about reading, not writing anything, whatsoever.

Take care, and be well.
tetra50

a reply to: tetra50

No I understand completely and have been doing more reading here than writing. I lurked for a while before registering. I don't mean to doubt you or try to catch you in a lie (someone decided to spend several hours attacking me over a few things I said). I just wanted to know more about how you arrived at this conclusion, but I will not push the issue and do more reading.

originally posted by: Darksea13
a reply to: tetra50

No I understand completely and have been doing more reading here than writing. I lurked for a while before registering. I don't mean to doubt you or try to catch you in a lie (someone decided to spend several hours attacking me over a few things I said). I just wanted to know more about how you arrived at this conclusion, but I will not push the issue and do more reading.

Just checking back in with you, Darksea13, after you have maybe had a chance to read some more….
Tell me, for I am interested…..do youi see more clearly my point of view in this thread , now?

Well, you glitches (and the programer/controllers) already knew I'd post ...what I'd say ... how anyone bothering to read it (or not) would respond (or not)... sigh... so why bother?

I'm going back to bed... indefinitely.

originally posted by: Baddogma
Well, you glitches (and the programer/controllers) already knew I'd post ...what I'd say ... how anyone bothering to read it (or not) would respond (or not)... sigh... so why bother?

I'm going back to bed... indefinitely.

Oh wait…..
lemme see now…Baddogma…you calling me a "programmer?" REALLY? I've recently arisen from going back to bed indefinitely, see, and I gotta say, it won't do much for you, for you're still gonna face the same upon awakening,but then I think we both already know that…..
So, I'm calling you out, cause you kinda called me out hereabouts, and I happen to know you know better…..
This thread is about the programmers, for sure, and the nod to knowing they are out there. However, I am certainly not one of them, for if I were, NONE of us would be currently suffering what we are.
tet

a reply to: tetra50

I was being wry...

but as far as being in a (possibly) controlled environment that's not "natural" by definition, even physics is coming on board... quantum mechanics is astounding and totally counter intuitive and the newer findings about 'simulation hints' are even more so... and never mind the myriad folks thinking something's "not right" and suspecting they are the rats in an experiment (or my own favorite, in a coma and inhabiting a world their own damaged, delirious mind constructed)... it's fringe, and people ascribe it to insanity, religious mania or fantasy... but people feel it.

Anyway, I might not have the exact same weirdness happen to me that cements it (or I might be a programmed personality not destined to become aware) but I've certainly had weeeeiiiiirrrrd instances where the world acts like it's a stage and I'm both the audience AND the player, and the only one not 'in on it'.

Heck, we have portions of our own minds hidden from our waking consciousness (subconscious, anyone?) so finding a level of 'knowing'... even in one's own head, is a toughie.

In fact, whenever I write or speak of this paranoid observation, something always interrupts... like random visits, or phone calls, or dive bombing birds hitting windows, cars crashing on a residential street... it's odd (random phone call this time, btw... heh).

I just call it the 'cosmic pranking frat boy' and go on... because I haven't found a way out of the maze. I've had a couple glimpses outside, but they involve illegal chems or dry hours of naval gazing... and the result is always helpless ennui, anyway, thus the bed comment.

I think I'd like to know the reality behind this one (or series of) ... but there is that fear it's something quite horrible... or that my mind's chemicals finally mixed that certain way that will get me a "crazy" label and a white room that truly IS a prison or experiment.

Either way, it's an uncomfortable, lonely direction to go... and the fact there's no solid proof makes it worse... but I hear ya.

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: tetra50

I was being wry...

but as far as being in a (possibly) controlled environment that's not "natural" by definition, even physics is coming on board... quantum mechanics is astounding and totally counter intuitive and the newer findings about 'simulation hints' are even more so... and never mind the myriad folks thinking something's "not right" and suspecting they are the rats in an experiment (or my own favorite, in a coma and inhabiting a world their own damaged, delirious mind constructed)... it's fringe, and people ascribe it to insanity, religious mania or fantasy... but people feel it.

Anyway, I might not have the exact same weirdness happen to me that cements it (or I might be a programmed personality not destined to become aware) but I've certainly had weeeeiiiiirrrrd instances where the world acts like it's a stage and I'm both the audience AND the player, and the only one not 'in on it'.

Heck, we have portions of our own minds hidden from our waking consciousness (subconscious, anyone?) so finding a level of 'knowing'... even in one's own head, is a toughie.

In fact, whenever I write or speak of this paranoid observation, something always interrupts... like random visits, or phone calls, or dive bombing birds hitting windows, cars crashing on a residential street... it's odd (random phone call this time, btw... heh).

I just call it the 'cosmic pranking frat boy' and go on... because I haven't found a way out of the maze. I've had a couple glimpses outside, but they involve illegal chems or dry hours of naval gazing... and the result is always helpless ennui, anyway, thus the bed comment.

I think I'd like to know the reality behind this one (or series of) ... but there is that fear it's something quite horrible... or that my mind's chemicals finally mixed that certain way that will get me a "crazy" label and a white room that truly IS a prison or experiment.

Either way, it's an uncomfortable, lonely direction to go... and the fact there's no solid proof makes it worse... but I hear ya.

I'm definitely in an epiphanous mood….having not been active on ATS for a while. LOL
You see, I frequently see our dialogue as you're not understanding my p.o.v., and from what i've just read, you totally understand my P.O.V. That's not the departure. And so, I just wrote a thread, no matter how ambiguous, inspired by our point of departure…..

It IS, most definitely, a lonely place to go and be….but nevertheless, for some of us, what we've experienced, nevertheless, without wasting time nor opportunity to make others' lives the same clusterfu@@ck for it, if Penrose and Hammer are correct about our experiential quantum entanglement. You see, this is quite an important element within this current consideration, as it is "science" saying that your consciousness or awareness, for wont of a better word, is replicating or deterministically providing the "reality" hereabouts….

What are we to do with such a thing, if all we have is suffering? I've written a thread, just today, in hopes to explore such a concept, and it should include relativistic space/time, in the sense that if the physical world was explained to those in power as being one in which one action warranted an equal and opposite reaction, they might think that the only way, at a certain tipping point, to persevere for humanity, was to go "all evil, and such…."

Think about it, and get back to me.
Thanks for your participation on my thread.

I want to add a perspective here, because even though it may seem 'counter' to the discussion, I actually think it's the same thing playing out in a different way...

So - me...never had any 'weird'/'high strangeness' type experiences, never witnessed anything the least bit 'glitchy' (in fact, given the extreme 'ordinary' represented in my like, you would think I'd be an 'uber'skeptic, which I'm not).

And yet, despite having experienced nothing the least indicative of any 'strangeness' in regard to 'reality', I have had for years now an incredibly strong feeling that something quite 'other' to perceived reality is going on...

...it's a deeply intuitive seeming sense that the world is 'wrong', I mean, there's a wrongness to it -
- as if at some point in the past we got sidetracked down a 'path' (timeline?) we were never supposed to go and now we are so far down the wrong way, that it would take a miracle to get back to the right 'track'...

And I think this may be something that many people sense to some degree - it's what underlies all the talk of 'resets'...

I don't know - this all seemed more 'relevant' in my head than it does written out, but I just can't shake the feeling that my 'lack' of any 'weirdness' of experience is in some way related to the 'wrongness' of the world...

...Ugh, I'm sorry - my brain just decided to pack it in for the night, no idea where to take this post from here...

Would welcome thoughts or input anyone may have.

a reply to: tetra50

Ourselves.

Humanity is its own worst enemy.

We dance like colliding planets when we should be waltzing. Most individuals pursue a greater quality of life. For some, there is a limit, but for most there is never enough.

Now, our cultural story up to this point in time and space implies that the most effective way to achieve these improvements is by taking them from someone else. This can be done under numerous facades, from a robbery to a CEO giving themselves bonuses.

This seems to be the best way to truly achieve these things, and that has been the background hum of human society for a very long time.

There are many choices, but an alternative example would be achieving these things by teaching and assisting others about self-sufficiency. Not just as a conversation, but as a life style. In this, rather than something like planned obsolescence, the end user would be encouraged to fix and even upgrade and modify the product themselves. The best of these changes could then be implemented in the produced product. Essentially turning any interested party into part of the R&D department.

The idea of cooperative competition with a focus on self-sufficiency and growth might not only encourage individuals to participate in and with the world around them, but also gives a clearer delineation between those who have been dealt a bad hand and those who simply want everything given to them.

The incentives for those at the "top" would be a higher quality of life than they could have ever achieved by hoarding wealth. The resource pool available for a(nearly) any and all research, art, medicine, etc. is extended to our entire species rather than a compartmentalized, small and isolated workgroup within a single company.

The issue is that without this ability to truly work together, our technological ability to destroy will far outstrip our ability to reason. It could be argued it already has, but it will only get worse as we advance technologically but not socially.

a reply to: lostgirl
Hey lost girl: Always a pleasure to read your thoughts, and this is no exception. What you're saying there is what I'm trying to explore in these threads. Although I will say a few of us may have a rather totally seeming recall of things having repeated, actual memories of this, and things going a whole different way as you've suggested. The Berentsteiner vs. …stainer thread is the easiest one that comes to mind about this, specifically.

Is it even possible there is a "reality," and then a simulation overlay on top of that, providing a real reset, for lack of a better word. If so, at what level are these decisions made, who makes them, why are they made, etc? And then, what really is "time," and what would that do to our "standard model" assumptions?

a reply to: Serdgiam

Hey Serdgiam: All great points in your post, but what I'm after here, perhaps, is possibly seeing ourselves in a slightly better light than that. I read so much trashing humanity, and much for good reason, on this site and in the news everyday. I'm not sure that the picture you present wasn't already achieved in some other timeline, and what we are experiencing now, which seems to show that the only way to survive successfully is to take from one another, isn't some psychopath's idea of how to excuse the guilty in our culture….

If we all affect reality, which at this point I really believe we do, then as per the original video posted, how on earth do we help the torture victims and guinea pigs of such heinous experiments? We medicate and cage the 'mentally ill', but what if they are just traumatized torture victims with no help anywhere?

a reply to: jessme2

I think the mentally ill are "traumatized torture victims" for the most part - the result of horrific childhood abuse, or even not so 'horrific' in certain cases where you had a sensitive child and insensitive/non-nurturing (or simply clueless) parents...

And I have a hard time buying the concept that "we all affect reality", at least in the over-all sense - that just doesn't compute when you consider that human beings are in a process of 'devolving' emotionally after having spent thousands of years rising to levels beyond the 'selfishness' inherent in 'survival of the fittest'...

...this fact is primarily the reason for my suspicions that a driving 'force' came into the picture somewhere along the line and 'messed' mankind up to the degree that the 'species' as a whole are literally being driven insane.

Even on an individual level, I'm not sure how much 'say' we get in affecting our reality. While I do believe that we have free will, I also feel that it is being constrained by that same insanity inflicting 'force' which is at the root of the world's being on the fast track to destruction..
- I know that although there are areas of my 'reality' which are the result of choices I had the 'freedom' to make (I feel those things at a deeply intuitive level), the overall structure of my life has not been to my choosing at all and feels very much as if it were 'orchestrated' by 'something' other than me..

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: lostgirl
What you're saying there is what I'm trying to explore in these threads. Although I will say a few of us may have a rather totally seeming recall of things having repeated, actual memories of this, and things going a whole different way as you've suggested. The Berentsteiner vs. …stainer thread is the easiest one that comes to mind about this, specifically.

Is it even possible there is a "reality," and then a simulation overlay on top of that, providing a real reset, for lack of a better word. If so, at what level are these decisions made, who makes them, why are they made, etc? And then, what really is "time," and what would that do to our "standard model" assumptions?

Hey tetra, nice 'talking' to you as well
I saw this thread before the other, hence my post here instead of there...
I've been wanting to 'explore' along these lines for awhile now, and I'm hoping corsair00 shows up, because his thoughts on time seem relevant to me..

As far as a "simulation overlay" on "reality", I don't know - from what I've read of quantum physics, I'm inclined to think it is more of a time loop (or plural 'loops') sort of thing...As such, I don't really think it changes much (if anything) with regard to the "standard model" - I mean, the 'science' (the 'math' actually) shows that time could be malleable in certain ways, it's all just a matter of having the 'capability'...

...so the question becomes, is there 'someone' (a "driving force", i.e. my post to jessme2, above) capable of 'riding' time, and thus manipulating the human race toward it's self-destruction? If so, who? and why would they want to do that?

a reply to: tetra50

There is no such need, that is our cultural story. It certainly isn't needed for survival, and I tried to explain how there are actually better ways with specificity. The cultural story is one that we write everyday, and up until this point, one that has been written largely unconsciously. It can be changed nigh instantly. It only limits how individuals perceive and interact with 'reality,' but it certainly does not dictate anything beyond that.

I find it fascinating that you saw such negativity, but this current node is constructed of a relatively "set" past time thread, and a variety of possible future threads of time based on current parameters. Things may not go well for this time node.

There are certainly time lines with a higher probability of success. However, even with a merge of threads, the future set of time threads is still determined by current action.

By implementing a different cultural story as well as redesigning how we set incentives, we create a foundation with some stability for growth. Despite the weaving of timelines to achieve a higher chance of a "preferred outcome," (or the opposite, which seems to be a focus) humanity ultimately decides its own fate.