Mass Shooting Reported in Bell, Florida

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: Sparkymedic

I have a feeling, at least in my country, that the taxpayers money should be spent solving this pandemic...rather than dumping it all in militarizing our police...and the country for that fact. $30 billion on mental heath instead of new navy ships would make the community look quite different over time, I think. Rather than trying to control it with draconian AND useless laws. And as opposed to me having to live in fear and carry a piece on me at all times. Some may think having a gun on you at all times is sane, I personally don't see why it should come to that. It doesn't really address the real issue. Mental health issues are pandemic... If not epidemic.

I couldn't agree more that the mental health portion of the equation is both the most important and the most overlooked. The focus shouldn't he on the method or implement utilized in attacks of this nature, it should be on what lies behind these violent outbursts and what precautions can be used to prevent them. It's unfortunate that seeking treatment or help when it comes to potential mental illnesses or perceived frailties is burdened by so much stigma which discourages people from seeking let alone admiring they may need some help because of the perception if weakness associated with treatment, especially in makes who bottle up emotion until the switch flips and they reach the breaking point. If the level of priority assigned to stereotypical "strong" symbolism such as military night was given to making mental health checkups as valuable as an annual physical, we as a society would benefit greatly.

But, the ones that are crazy, tend to display their craziness, without thought!

And, the ones that carry out such things as what transpired in the OP, generally don't!

You said it yourself, that they tend to "bottle-up" their emotions. So, how are we to determine who it is we should be scrutinizing? Those who hold things in, especially homicidal tendencies, generally are quite good at appearing normal, until...

Gun nuts responded by buying more guns after 20 innocent school children were massacred inside their classroom. What difference will 6 dead kids make? None sadly.

Unfortunately in this country, the frivolous right of owning a firearm just in case tyrants try to take over the government, trumps a kids right to grow up.

originally posted by: GoOfYFoOt

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: Sparkymedic

I have a feeling, at least in my country, that the taxpayers money should be spent solving this pandemic...rather than dumping it all in militarizing our police...and the country for that fact. $30 billion on mental heath instead of new navy ships would make the community look quite different over time, I think. Rather than trying to control it with draconian AND useless laws. And as opposed to me having to live in fear and carry a piece on me at all times. Some may think having a gun on you at all times is sane, I personally don't see why it should come to that. It doesn't really address the real issue. Mental health issues are pandemic... If not epidemic.

I couldn't agree more that the mental health portion of the equation is both the most important and the most overlooked. The focus shouldn't he on the method or implement utilized in attacks of this nature, it should be on what lies behind these violent outbursts and what precautions can be used to prevent them. It's unfortunate that seeking treatment or help when it comes to potential mental illnesses or perceived frailties is burdened by so much stigma which discourages people from seeking let alone admiring they may need some help because of the perception if weakness associated with treatment, especially in makes who bottle up emotion until the switch flips and they reach the breaking point. If the level of priority assigned to stereotypical "strong" symbolism such as military night was given to making mental health checkups as valuable as an annual physical, we as a society would benefit greatly.

But, the ones that are crazy, tend to display their craziness, without thought!

And, the ones that carry out such things as what transpired in the OP, generally don't!

You said it yourself, that they tend to "bottle-up" their emotions. So, how are we to determine who it is we should be scrutinizing? Those who hold things in, especially homicidal tendencies, generally are quite good at appearing normal, until...

Well, unfortunately the fix wouldn't come quickly or easily. These things take time. Consider it a form of evolution.

How do we pinpoint the people who need help? I dunno. But I bet a good place to start is working towards a more sane society. I'm done with the dominator/ scarcity society we have running amok. And we're surprised when a mass shooting happens!?


BTW, based on my experience in the mental health field of work...there are no experts. Much of it is all guess and test, based on "knowledge" developed by big pharma.

a reply to: GoOfYFoOt



It's an extremely valid question. There is no 100% fool proof methodology that I'm aware of but I'm also not a psychologist or medical professional so I may be speaking out of turn. However, I probably wasn't overly clear though I believe I tried to allude to the point I was trying to get at which is, if people are going to be stigmatized for seeking help or treatment one possible solution is to have it done as part of, or in conjunction with, an annual physical exam. If I can let my Dr. fondle me in an uncomfortable fashion while asking me to turn my head and cough, I should be able to let someone take a peek under the other hood and ask me some uncomfortable questions and see how I respond. It would at least, if done by a competent professional, give a little more insight and potentially early warnings in regards to potential major issues and even minor ones like untreated depression.

Obviously, in someone with a major disorder such as schizophrenia, it will be far more apparent than someone who has say... borderline personality disorder but it's at least a step in the right direction and far more than is currently being done. It beats the hell out of blaming guns or kitchen knives or sporks or any other inanimate object and begins to address the actual root of what is going on.

originally posted by: muse7
Gun nuts responded by buying more guns after 20 innocent school children were massacred inside their classroom. What difference will 6 dead kids make? None sadly.

Unfortunately in this country, the frivolous right of owning a firearm just in case tyrants try to take over the government, trumps a kids right to grow up.

Please keep your gun rights opinion in the gun rights threads. This is a thread covering a tragedy and how mental health obviously has everything to do with it... We are NOT debating gun rights here. Thanks!

a reply to: Sparkymedic

All we need are a few Pre-cogs...

Minority Report

a reply to: Sparkymedic

The death of the young is always a great loss; every time a child dies so does some part of our collective future. I for one cannot imagine unleashing violence on those who look to me for answers and some sense of sanctuary. Just the other day a niece of mine, she's four, asked me if cats love babies. Kids ... they're amazing. They re-open windows within us closed when our own childhood ended.

Tragedies such as these are preventable; that I believe. However, I think they're also symbolic of indifference both to mental health issues and abusive behaviors within the families where they occur. As many others do, I also wish the best for those who will suffer most from this senseless act. We all so often gather round the online bonfire to moan about and bewail the state of our modern world. We all ought to take a moment tonight and imagine the loss of all ability to know, feel and learn experienced by these six children.

a reply to: peter vlar

I agree to a point...

But, who decides what mental state directly leads to senseless killings? Are we going to medicate and remove the rights of everyone that has ever lost a loved one, or had a traumatic experience? Because that is what would happen!

And, the last time I checked, psychiatry is NOT an exact science! Heck, we can't even properly explain a thought or a memory, but we're going to determine who has the ability to take an innocent person's life? Haven't there been studies, already done on mass murder's brain scans? And, we didn't find a link...

It's a very slippery slope, IMO.

a reply to: GoOfYFoOt

Don't we already have a defacto version of that with NSA data mining and programs line Echelon? I just don't see what the issue is with expanding expenditures on mental health services and reducing the stigma associated with them by incorporation them with the rest if an annual physical. It's certainly not going to catch every issue in every person not will it be a magic panacea that works overnight making everyone shiny happy people. But it's a better first step than anything else I've seen and it's certainly better than what is going on currently. Improving access to services is never a bad thing unless there is some sort of mandatory reporting aspect such as with the NY Safe Act passed a month after Sandy Hook, unless there is a ear and eminent danger expressed by the patient. But I believe that us currently the case, that Dr./Patient confidentiality ceases if you admit to a therapist that you are seriously naming or considering harming either yourself or others. That's not going to encourage anyone to participate if every little quirk is going I he reported and ends up part of some database.

a reply to: GoOfYFoOt

I'm taking about baby steps and the first step is to remove the stigma from seeking assistance for potential mental illness. If it's something as simple as including a mental health checkup in with the rest of an annual physical exam then we are off to a good start. I'm not advocating for forced medication or mandatory reporting to some state or federal database. But when being depressed or hearing voices is overly stigmatized and thus seeking help is a notion not entertained to avoid being looked down on as weak, which is very much the case in American society that's a huge failin of both society and medical professionals. When I was in the army for example, I worked with far more people who could have benefited from some simple counseling sessions than not. Just having someone impartial to talk to is sometimes the difference between living a normal life and going postal.

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: bhliberal
This is just another reason for strong gun control. Let's watch and see that the perpetrator had a legally obtained firearm. I'm almost willing to bet.

People misusing their rights is no reason to take mine.

Amen to that. Criminals will get their hands on guns with or without gun control.

Drugs are illegal but people still get them and use them. Same could be said about gun control, just because you outlaw it doesn't mean it will stop people from getting them.

-SAP-

a reply to: peter vlar


Again, I agree...

But, when has the US government EVER shown the ability to address a major issue, like this?

Can you say, TSA?

How many billions have we thrown at domestic terrorism, and for what?

I am with you, that we need to do something! I just can't see any good coming out of more laws and/or government oversight...

originally posted by: GoOfYFoOt
a reply to: peter vlar


Again, I agree...

But, when has the US government EVER shown the ability to address a major issue, like this?

Can you say, TSA?

How many billions have we thrown at domestic terrorism, and for what?

I am with you, that we need to do something! I just can't see any good coming out of more laws and/or government oversight...

You are correct. No good will come of more laws and more government. Mental health issues are a very very serious problem around the world.

ISIS, Ebola, WWIII...whatever, are actually significantly less of a threat, if not all rolled into the mental health problems of the global community. Think about what brainwashing and a severe lack of education, let alone violence being the norm, does to a communities mental health. My guess is paranoid schizophrenia... Maybe add some bipolar for a cherry on top.

Again, are we surprised that these murders happen?

You will never be able to fight fire with fire.

Also,

You will never find the answer to a REAL problem in a politicians office.

I have a feeling that real change will only happen at a grassroots level, in regards to advancing mental health.

a reply to: GoOfYFoOt

Again, I'm not advocating for anything from the government, especially not interference or oversight. Well,
I guess I am asking for something of them, more money to make this level of help more widespread and increased availability.

For the cost of just one F-35, we could increase access for far more people for far less money with far less stigma. I'm just suggesting funding.

And you'll get no argument from me on TSA... Made my way through an airport for the first time in about 10 years this week because of the level of loathing I have for them and have to do it again Sunday on my way back home. The sacrifices I make so my kids can see Mickey Mouse and swim with dolphins... Let's just say I left an hour before my wife because I was prepared to be pulled to the side when I refused to go through any radiation machine and expressed my interest in pressing sexual assault charges against anyone who fondled me inappropriately. I'm not a fan in any way shape or form of that level of government debauchery.

originally posted by: lokin
For the love of God, people!!! There are innocent children dead. Gone. What the heck is wrong with you?? Why, why, why do you do this every damn time there is a shooting?? This is NOT, repeat, NOTNOTNOT the place to argue gun control. I have never seen a bigger group of non-feeling, selfish people in one place in my entire life.I am talking about BOTH sides of the argument. Again, this is a tragedy. There are innocent children DEAD. How about if you have something to say that maybe, oh, I don't know, showed a teeny bit of compassion? I'm not singling you out smithjustinb. I just happened to have been on your comment when i lost my temper. All of you arguing gun control on this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. a reply to: smithjustinb

Honestly, the only way this incident will affect me is as it pertains gun control. 6 kids getting killed isn't a good thing, but it doesn't affect me unless I knew the kids. So, I'm not ashamed of talking about gun control in this thread. Maybe I am selfish, but I'm okay with that. I don't have to reserve my speech just because something bad happened in some far away place. I can say whatever I want (within the t&c). For me, as it pertains to me, and how it could affect me in the long run, this is going to become a discussion about gun control, which I will be involved in even if I am involved in it this early.

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: lokin
For the love of God, people!!! There are innocent children dead. Gone. What the heck is wrong with you?? Why, why, why do you do this every damn time there is a shooting?? This is NOT, repeat, NOTNOTNOT the place to argue gun control. I have never seen a bigger group of non-feeling, selfish people in one place in my entire life.I am talking about BOTH sides of the argument. Again, this is a tragedy. There are innocent children DEAD. How about if you have something to say that maybe, oh, I don't know, showed a teeny bit of compassion? I'm not singling you out smithjustinb. I just happened to have been on your comment when i lost my temper. All of you arguing gun control on this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. a reply to: smithjustinb

Honestly, the only way this incident will affect me is as it pertains gun control. 6 kids getting killed isn't a good thing, but it doesn't affect me unless I knew the kids. So, I'm not ashamed of talking about gun control in this thread. Maybe I am selfish, but I'm okay with that. I don't have to reserve my speech just because something bad happened in some far away place. I can say whatever I want (within the t&c). For me, as it pertains to me, and how it could affect me in the long run, this is going to become a discussion about gun control, which I will be involved in even if I am involved in it this early.

Yup, that's selfish. Basically the definition of it actually.

I guess you haven't heard that Francis Bacon line where "no man is an island"? Good to know you are a self proclaimed island, as you clearly care only for the world according to you...as it effects you.

Also, thanks for being respectful. You have the entire internet, and this site, to talk about the 2nd, but you still choose to troll here, on a thread about 6 kids who were shot dead in a murder suicide. Geeeee, thanks.

If guns were supposed to be a way to protect freedoms and rights
then they have been grossly misused
Thoughts and prayers go out to the families..

a reply to: projectvxn
If you honestly think that the right to own a gun trumps another’s right to be safe from your gun, then there is something wrong here to begin with…Also, to be quite honest, the constitution says that it’s the right of people to bear arms IF THEY ARE PART OF A ‘REGULATED’ MILITIA… Not just everyone privately owning them for the heck of it. So its arguable if you really do have a right as a private citizen to bear arms, and your owning them certainly doesn't trump another's guaranteed right to "life" (ie Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness)

People close to the edge can be driven to these tragedies, even consider that 'it's for the best', when their situations go from bad to worse; may have been the economy, the incessant bad news we all see every day, could be anything combined with mental illness, or alcoholism.

The real killers are the governments that spend money on wars, creating new enemies, and fail to ever hold the people who crashed the economy accountable and never have enough to spend on social programs, jobs programs and mental health programs, real mental health programs, not crappy prescription drug handouts.

originally posted by: defcon5
a reply to: projectvxn
If you honestly think that the right to own a gun trumps another’s right to be safe from your gun, then there is something wrong here to begin with…Also, to be quite honest, the constitution says that it’s the right of people to bear arms IF THEY ARE PART OF A ‘REGULATED’ MILITIA… Not just everyone privately owning them for the heck of it. So its arguable if you really do have a right as a private citizen to bear arms, and your owning them certainly doesn't trump another's guaranteed right to "life" (ie Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness)

Actually, a VAST majority of the guns in the US exist to PRESERVE your rights!

For without them, our lives and livelihoods, would only exist for the amusement and pleasure of our masters. And that is a FACT...