Christian Persecution Abounds

originally posted by: Rustami
a reply to: TzarChasm

Rated Greatest Scientist in History (a Christian)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

watcha think?

Ezekiel 1
And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.

25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.

26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

he would have been considered a heretic if he had gone fully public in those days. he kept a few details to himself it seems.

According to most scholars, Newton was Arian, not holding to Trinitarianism. 'In Newton's eyes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin'. As well as being antitrinitarian, Newton allegedly rejected the orthodox doctrines of the immortal soul, a personal devil and literal demons. Although he was not a Socinian he shared many similar beliefs with them. A manuscript he sent to John Locke in which he disputed the existence of the Trinity was never published. In a minority view, T.C. Pfizenmaier argued Newton was neither "orthodox" nor an Arian, but that, rather, Newton believed both of these groups had wandered into metaphysical speculation. Pfizenmaier also argued that Newton held closer to the Eastern Orthodox view of the Trinity rather than the Western one held by Roman Catholics and Protestants. However, S. D. Snobelen has argued against this from manuscripts produced late in Newton's life which demonstrate Newton rejected the Eastern view of the Trinity.

i wonder how much of his theism was rooted in ignorance and cultural upbringing...

and STOP posting verses that have nothing to do with the discussion.

originally posted by: Rustami
a reply to: Akragon

1 Peter 4 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

IF you're going to speak to me... use your own words...

I've told you before... just posting bible verses means nothing... proves nothing...

and only shows that you can not think for yourself...

Please don't waste my time...

a reply to: Klassified

Matthew 24
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

1 John 3
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer

a reply to: Akragon

John 6 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luke 9 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Hebrews 4 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Your posts, like this thread is a waste of space without any input from your own mind...

Im done with you

originally posted by: Klassified
Xtians consistently put themselves in harms way, knowing they will be persecuted and murdered for proselytizing in these countries, and yet they still get upset when it happens.

Have you considered staying out of the Middle East, Asia, and any other countries where you are not welcome?

Do you mean like the Coptic Christians in Egypt that enter their churches, only to have them burned down around them? Like those Christians?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I'm not sure there's much to discuss. Klassified has hit the nail on the head. If Christians go into countries where their religion is not welcomed, and they try to pass out bibles or preach Christianity to the citizens, they're going to come up against some serious resistance. It's like jumping into an ocean full of sharks and then complaining because you get bitten.

The OP's source even said it: the majority are persecuted in Muslim-dominated nations.

Can you even call it persecution? I mean, if I walk out onto a busy freeway and get hit, do we blame the driver? Or am I likely to be accused of committing suicide? And if I blame the driver, wouldn't people say I brought it on myself or that I'm a a voluntary victim?

What about the people (Christians) who were born in the Muslim countries and their families have lived there for generations? They are the ones being persecuted.

You have a point about the missionaries, but it is the "native born" who are being most persecuted in Muslim countries. What did they do to deserve beheading? having their children sliced in half? tortured? murdered?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
..between science

Joel 2
They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: Klassified
Xtians consistently put themselves in harms way, knowing they will be persecuted and murdered for proselytizing in these countries, and yet they still get upset when it happens.

Have you considered staying out of the Middle East, Asia, and any other countries where you are not welcome?

Do you mean like the Coptic Christians in Egypt that enter their churches, only to have them burned down around them? Like those Christians?

very good point

The Copts are the native Christians of Egypt (Coptic: ⲟⲩⲢⲉⲙ̀ⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ̀ⲛ̀Ⲭⲣⲏⲥⲧⲓ̀ⲁⲛⲟⲥ ou.Remenkīmi en.Ekhristianos ; Egyptian Arabic: اقباط, IPA: [ɑʔˈbɑːtˤ]), a major ethnoreligious group in Egypt and the largest Christian group there. Christianity was the religion of the vast majority of Egyptians from 400–800 A.D. and the majority after the Muslim conquest until the mid-10th century [13] and remains the faith of a significant minority population.en.wikipedia.org...

Egypt is identified in the Bible as the place of refuge that the Holy Family sought in its flight[1] from Judea: "When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod the Great, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt I called My Son" (Matthew 2:12-23).en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Rustami


Hey Sport- Who does Your breathing?? I see any view that is opposing or that person didn't used some "rule book quote" their post receives a 'cut & paste' response.. If You know the 'secret handshake' You get accolades ..

accolades from acolytes,... Yikes!!!

Bible thumper response: "Yeah, I know.. Didn't that mauve shirt look great on Leviticus...'?
Non-thumper: He sayeth Don't layeth Your hands on thy skirt- Cindy Brady

You can add Me to the list of members that would just as soon PASS on what scripture You/or whomever is pulling Your strings thinks is appropriate , You know because My God, Hunab Ku, provided me w/some FREE WILL...

Good Luck on Your recruiting acolytes for the "Final, Final" I'll try and catch a tad on My way UP..

originally posted by: Rustami
a reply to: Klassified

Matthew 24
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

1 John 3
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer

I am well aware of the great commission. And the same man who originally spoke it, also told you what the cost would be for obeying, and carrying out that commandment. It's spelled out in your own bible repeatedly. I was once a fundamentalist. I can quote verses with you all day long. But it would be pointless. If you know the bible that well, you also know what has and will happen to you in countries that don't care about your rights. Especially those who are violently opposed to xtianity.

I do not agree with non-violent people being killed for their faith. But Muslims see you the same way you see them. As godless heathens. They don't care what your bible says, any more than you care what theirs says.

If you go over there, or live there, your chances of dying for your faith in christ have just risen exponentially.

I'm starting to get the impression that modern xtians think they are better than their martyed heroes. If Peter and others were murdered for their faith without complaint. What makes you different from them?

2 Timothy 3:12

Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

John 15:18-20

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

Matthew 23:34

34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city

a reply to: AlephBet
See my post to Rustami.

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: Rustami

No argument there. It is a fact that people of many nations are persecuted to varying degrees wholly because of their Christian faith. This also applies to the other faiths, too. Jews are still persecuted, Muslims are persecuted, Buddhists are persecuted, the list goes on.

Not just faith, either. Gay people are persecuted, women are persecuted, children are persecuted, the list goes on.

Hmmm, it appears that human beings will persecute other human beings for any excuse of difference they can find doesn't it?

We need to ask the question as to why this is so much a part of human nature? There are many factors to consider. We put down others and other groups to weaken them and strengthen our stance; survival of the strongest and the fittest. We make our behaviour more right by showing how wrong the behaviour of theirs is even if we have to fabricate as Hitler's regime did to demonise the Jews.

Human nature, my friend. Ironic really that we need to evolve out of Darwin's concept of how evolution progresses; survival of the fittest.

People caught up in duality and failing to follow the golden rule. I wish some Christians would listen to Jesus more than Paul so they could realize that Jesus would not condemn for instance a Buddhist/Sikh/Hindu monk that follow the golden rule (exactly like both Jesus and Buddha taught). The whole I am wearing Jesus name as my savior and you are destined for hell since you are not wearing it is getting old.

Some Christians call Muslim heathen. Some Muslim Call Christians heathen. Both Jew, Christians, Muslim call the Sikh, Bahá'í, Hindu and Buddhist heathen. And the ones who have spiritual experiences instead of faith shakes their head at the insanity of it all.

a reply to: Klassified

This is where an assumption is wrong. No Christian hates his brother. Enemies are loved. If not, they are no Christian. Taking the name means taking the character. Otherwise, it's taking the name in vain. Character is the name and the name means love for others.

People like Westborough Baptist may be taking the name in vain as an example. All of us fall short, and this is the necessity of love. Find a Christian killing from hatred and you have found someone who has separated themselves from the sheep and become a goat.

God offers forgiveness upon request, but requires repentance, or turning away from the sin we repent of. This is what repentance is. It's growing and raising to new life.

You cannot separate the message from the one that demonstrated the message. You can, however, separate the one not demonstrating the message. They are not a Christian in the sense of the word. Calling the name does not mean all will claim the character by actions. Know them by their fruit.

Faith is dead apart from works. Good works are a byproduct of faith. This is how we know.

originally posted by: Expat888
Ahh .. more of the usual whinging .. yet its ok for the good christians to judge .. condemn .. persecute and murder anyone who doesnt believe their primitive .. barbaric .. bloodthirsty deathcult .. gotta love christian hypocrasy ...

Michael White, writing for the Twentieth Century Atlas, has compiled an intriguing list of body counts, attributable to the worst known acts of war, and other human atrocities, dating back to the fall of Rome. I will venture to briefly list them here by count and century:

55 million, Second World War (20C); 40 million, under Mao Zedong (20C); 40 million, Mongol Conquests(13C); 36 million, An Lushan Revolt(8C); 25 million, Fall of the Ming Dynasty(17C); 20 million, Taiping Rebellion(19C); 20 million, toll of American Indians, (15C-19C), 20 million, under Joseph Stalin(20C); 19 million, Mideast Slave Trade(7C-19C); 18 million, Atlantic Slave Trade(15C-); 17 million, Islamic Conquest of India(14C-15C); 17 million, British India(19C); 15 million, First World War(20C); 9 million, Russian Civil War(20C); 9 million, Hindu Thuggee cult killings(13C-19C); 8 million, Fall of Rome(3C-5C); 8 million, Congo Free State(19C – 20C); 7 million, Thirty Years War(17C); 5 million, Russia's Time of Troubles(16C-17C), 4 million, Napoleonic Wars(19C); 3 million, Chinese Civil War(20C); 3 million, French Wars of Religion(16C).

Taken all together, we have 401 million deaths over nearly 2000 years of war and barbarism. Just for the sake of argument, let’s add another 10%, or 40 million, to cover margins of error, and other wars. This would bring our total to 441 million deaths over the last 20 centuries.

This is an incomplete listing of some very bad things that happened before the 20th Century. I've scoured the history books and collected most of the major atrocities that anyone has bothered to enumerate.However, just because an event is missing from these pages doesn't mean that it wasn't very bloody..Maybe the 20th Century really was more barbaric than previous centuries (as some people say), but you'll need more complete statistics to prove it. [n.1]
necrometrics.com...

The Bolsheviks who murdered the Russian Tsar Family and worked themselves into the Russian government, created the Russian Revolution and are responsible for all the horrors that afflicted Russia after their hostile takeover. The annihilation numbers are claimed to be between..60 Million to 120 Million Russian citizens murdered by their own government. Many European citizens were captured in addition to this number between 1941 and 1950 and taken to Russian slave labor camps if they were not executed. www.germanvictims.com...

Madman who starved 60million to death: Devastating book reveals how Mao's megalomania turned China into a madhouse
www.dailymail.co.uk...

Body Count of the Roman Empire
•(Extremely Preliminary and Debatable) TOTAL:
◦All Punic Wars: 1.0M
◦Gladiators: 1.0M
◦Slave Wars (Servile Wars): 1.0M
◦Cimbri-Teutoni War: 0.3M
◦Social War: 0.3M
◦Mithridatic Wars: ca. 0.5M
◦Gallic War: 1.0M
◦Juleo-Claudian Paranoia: 0.028M
◦Jewish Wars: 0.4M
◦Boudica's Revolt: 0.15M
◦Decline and Fall: 7.0M
◦TOTAL: over 13.0M
necrometrics.com...

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.'

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. -Revelation
www.biblegateway.com...

edit on 18-9-2014 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

a reply to: TzarChasm

between science and religion, which relies more heavily on rationality to conduct its business?

i thought so.

The Scientific 100:
A Ranking of the Most Influential Scientists, Past and Present
www.adherents.com...

The King James version of the Bible is only a book. What can a book do in history? Well, whatever the reason, books have played a large part in the movements of men, SPECIALLY OF MODERN MAN. www.bible-researcher.com...

SIMPLY PUT, THE BIBLE IS THE MOST influential book ever written.jyte.com...

His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. -Daniel10

Brass is a metal composed primarily of copper and zinc. Copper is the main component, and brass is usually classified as a copper alloy. The color of brass www.madehow.com...

Brass contacts are hidden inside all electrical fittings

The Internet was invented by the US but not a single person like other big inventions have their one master-mind-inventor, no it was ARPA (now know as DARPA) who invented the internet and later different countries (here UK, Swiss and I think some others) made that, already invented internet, worldwide(web) accessible www.eupedia.com...

Revelation 4 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

a reply to: Rustami

that doesnt tell me anything except you like farfectched conclusions.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
What about the people (Christians) who were born in the Muslim countries and their families have lived there for generations? They are the ones being persecuted.

Some pretty evil things are happening in the theocracies of the world. That's an honest point. What are we supposed to do about it? What is the point of this thread? Are we supposed to feel guilty for what N. Koreans are doing to Christians? Are we supposed to feel some sort of alliance with people who would behead and kill people for their beliefs? Are we supposed to feel sorry for Christians? I don't get the point of the thread - the OP comes out and claims that Christians are persecuted. A lot of people are persecuted in other parts of the world. What are we supposed to do about it?

The OP can't seem to speak his own thoughts and tell me the REASON he posts this thread, but instead vomits bible verse after bible verse, which I refuse to read.

I could have an honest discussion about it, and I actually think you and I could do it, but the OP has proven that he doesn't know how to use words of his own to get his point across, and I'm frankly tired of trying.

I AGREE that Christians are not welcomed in many countries. I'm not too sure of the numbers, as they are mostly estimates and I'm not sure what the sources mean by "persecuted", but it doesn't really matter. Christians are NOT being persecuted here in the US. I don't like the way women are treated in the Muslim countries either, but it's far removed from what happens in the free world.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap - Galatians 6:7.

I wouldn't usually quote the bible, but in this case I see an excellent opportunity to basically say, "Nyah nyah, take some of your own medicine".

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap - Galatians 6:7.

I wouldn't usually quote the bible, but in this case I see an excellent opportunity to basically say, "Nyah nyah, take some of your own medicine".

and considering scripture i have observed concerning the persecution of christians id like to point out that common sense is not prophecy. throwing a brick in the air and predicting it will come down doesnt make you a prophet. and people are going to get upset if you push an ideology that interferes with their liberties.