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ISIS - Disinformation Verses Truth And The Question "Who Benefits From Lies?"

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posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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ISIS - Disinformation Verses Truth And The Question "Who Benefits From Lies?"

I believe this is a story in and of itself and one no one is really discussing. Some of the stories coming out about ISIS are true, this I do know for a fact but I am unlike most in that I also have the ability to speak with some people from ISIS affected areas. But, for those who don't have that ability, others have asked people from those affected areas to speak about their experiences, so you can find some of these stories out there:


a year or so later, the war has not been going well for the government in the region. At some point, ISIS starts its landslide offensive in the region, and the army evacuates the entire region. Again courtesy our army benefactor shia and other villagers are given the opportunity to be evacuated by the army. The first few people were allowed to take one piece of luggage, but that was quickly discontinued, as many poople wanted to flee (not only shia and alawi). IS has a much more extreme stance than AQ and FSA. This is where my personal record ends, here's how it continues as told to me by other villagers: In the process of cleansing the area, IS sends a group of 100 or so men to check on the village. They declare the village IS controlled, put some local sunni extremist in charge, put up the IS flag, leave two "advisers" and small "police force" behind. Why is not really clear, To Continue Reading Click Here




A couple weeks ago I posted a thread asking about the names of the soldiers kidnapped in the Arsal conflict in Lebanon and up until now there wasn't a 100% answer that he was taken hostage until this video popped up yesterday, he's the second one to talk. Some people asked me to keep them up to date on the situation and so now I guess I'm posting this. The IS are giving an ultimatum of three days for the Lebanese army to release some prisoners they captured from the IS or they will execute the soldiers in this video.

Edit* My family and I are very thankful for everyone's support during this situation we are facing. We are praying for a safe return for my cousin. Link Here


I didn't do much searching, but if you look for more I'm sure you will find more people who will give you their personal accounts of what is really happening in those areas, at least to the people's knowledge who have fled.

Therefore, we do know ISIS is bad, is killing people, is carrying out mass killings and many other very bad things... yet, at the same time people are carrying false stories, such as CNN recently putting out a story they didn't fully investigate prior to posting it, only to have to pull it later. Well, by the time the story was pulled, nearly 24 hours later, the story itself has been repeated everywhere - and now has a life of its own.

My question was why fake any story at all. There is more than enough true stuff to make you vomit and there is no need to fake anything to make ISIS look any worse than they are in actuality. Therefore, why fake anything? Why fake a picture when there are plenty of real ones? why fake a story when ISIS is busy providing the news outlets appetites with plenty of daily blood and gore and injustice?

In general, it seems to make no sense. Therefore, we must delve into the psychology of the thing and answer the question, Who Benefits Most?

Possibility #1) Some people believe it's the United States government in order to get the American populous to agree to war.

Yet, the truth could easily accomplish that plus the American people have not been consulted for any war the US government has waged lately nor has their opinion mattered much for any of them so it's highly unlikely to be that. If the US government really wanted a war, they would simply declare one and all of us would deal with it, just like always.

Possibility #2 is much like #1 but it substitutes another government for the US government. That Possibility is that it is Israel who is faking stories in order to get the US government into another war, but that possibility is much like #1 in that they don't need to fake any story to accomplish that goal.

Therefore, we must look at Possibility #3)

That is; ISIS themselves are faking stories. Which, oddly, is not as farfetched a thought as one may think. ISIS is doing some really evil things in order to keep the edge on that upper hand once they take over a town or an area. Those acts draw the condemnation and disgust of just about everyone, yet are historically found to be the best way of going about a war. You have to admit that they aren't going about war Islamiclly, but they are doing it to win - and rather successfully at that.

Sun Tzu said: "You don't win a war on the battlefield, you win it by beating your opponent in his own mind."

ISIS is doing that - without a doubt. People who normally fight, are afraid to because there is no length ISIS wont go to in order to win. Everyone else has limits. My husband says that from personal experience he knows that if people think your crazy they wont fool with you - just because they don't know what you might do next and cannot put anything past you.

Yet, if they do end up winning these areas for good, they will need to be able to put the past behind them and show themselves as good guys. In order to do that, they must have a means of combating the truth, since it's everywhere in the digital age.

What better way of combating the truth, than to put real lies out there? It blurs the line between what is true and what is false, and leaves people either fighting to defend a lie, or trashing of any portion of the truth in their mind, since most people think in terms of either black or white, and are unable to separate the shades of grey. So its either all or none, they either have to accept all of the atrocities, or they have to reject all of them as manufactured.

And some day, these lies will play into the hands of a very evil group calling themselves the Islamic State because someday, they will demand that you reject it all, and see them as the good guy's. They CAN do that by pointing to the provable lies, and say "See, this is a lie, this is a lie, and this is a lie - therefore its ALL lies" The people who rejected it all because of the lies, will say to them "Your right - I knew it all along" And the ones who were fighting to defend the lies will be marginalized because they have already been proven to defend lies so it will be that much easier to marginalize them.

In conclusion, I think we should verify everything, and trust nothing but what has been verified - which is always best to verify all the way back to the source - otherwise we play right into the hands of this group.

I for one do not intend on being one of the marginalized ones, nor one of the one's willing to see these butchers as good guys - ever.




posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB




And some day, these lies will play into the hands of a very evil group calling themselves the Islamic State because someday, they will demand that you reject it all, and see them as the good guy's. They CAN do that by pointing to the provable lies, and say "See, this is a lie, this is a lie, and this is a lie - therefore its ALL lies" The people who rejected it all because of the lies, will say to them "Your right - I knew it all along" And the ones who were fighting to defend the lies will be marginalized because they have already been proven to defend lies so it will be that much easier to marginalize them.


WOW, so true, you hit the nail right on the head.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 04:56 PM
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My question was why fake any story at all. There is more than enough true stuff to make you vomit and there is no need to fake anything to make ISIS look any worse than they are in actuality. Therefore, why fake anything? Why fake a picture when there are plenty of real ones? why fake a story when ISIS is busy providing the news outlets appetites with plenty of daily blood and gore and injustice?


I think the media on the American side is having trouble which stories to cover and which ones to bury, because as most of the support a US position, leading back to Libya, and Iraq, the formation of IS and exactly where everyone came from it begins to get really murky.

They clearly want a "bad guy" in the ME. And they have one with IS. IS is the culmination of extremist Jihadi thinking. They have everything needed to be the bad guy. Other Muslims, (Most Muslims) do not think the way they do and don't want to be associated with them. Their actions are deplorable and it doesn't take much for anyone with half a brain to see that.

That being said, the body that makes up the group are any and every recruit they can find that either a) hates the west or b) wants to glorify Islam.

They picked up past US enemies as well as US allies. Because the US was so focused on getting Ghaddafi out of power and Assad a short period after. (US intelligence agencies said that if Assad didn't step down it would only be a matter of time before he was forcibly removed) they lent support across a multitude of lines that (I presume) wouldn't normally receive it.

So it's the common story of the west funding and arming people only later to be fighting against the same people and arms later. However, the current separation in the FSA + Kurds vs IS seems to be pretty clear. In other words, the US finally positioned themselves or their actors in the ME to the proper positions. However, people are lagging a little behind and focusing on how and who got there as opposed to the current situation.

What I mean to say, is that everything has finally fallen into place now, with a good/guy vs bad guy, and everyone that doesn't want to follow the current story is getting sidetracked staring at how the story emerged to begin with.

Which of course is relevant, but not so relevant that it should blur the current issue at hand. Which is that IS needs to be brought into line.

It's kind of like if the KKK was in the south promoting all their BS, and someone came along and somehow managed to position them into a real place of power. Are you going to ignore the current state and let them rule the south (while arguing over how they came to be), or are you going to work on an a plan on how to reduce them back to their backwards group of blowhards that should never have risen to anything more than that.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:08 PM
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a reply to: boncho

I agree with much of what you say, with the exception that the division of FSA and Kurds and ISIS is clear. No, its really not. FSA was taken over by Al-Qaeda leaders, and are little better than ISIS, and have the same exact goals as ISIS does in the end. They are just slightly less insane than ISIS however.

That is where the water gets murky, the US doesn't want too many people to get that - that no matter who we back right now, no one in this is a "good guy" - and they haven't yet given up the hope of ousting Assad - who is actually a better guy in all this mess, although not good. Therefore who to back up is a pretty complicated topic in and of itself. The Kurds might be the best bet, but then that comes with political problems all it's own, and we just might find out why no one has ever wanted the Kurds to have much access to power.

Far from clear-cut that is.

That said, I agree with you that no matter how ISIS got it's start they are the worst of the worst, and they do need to go - and hopefully sooner rather than later because later is always more difficult.

What will make that prospect more difficult however, is transparent lies in media. Makes people wonder if ISIS is really bad enough to worry about - or just an excuse.

In my opinion and from what I know of them, they are really just that evil. Yet, who needs to be the one to fight against them would be another topic - as I don't think western countries can effectively.



edit on 18-9-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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About two weeks ago or so, I was searching for evidence to document ISIS atrocities. One photograph I ran across, attributed to ISIS, was pretty horrendous - a naked, bound woman being bled out into a large bowl. There wasn't much information connected with the photo, so I went looking for corroborating evidence that might lead to information regarding the location and circumstances of the act, and therefore either uncover some of the participants, or at least have a more precise record of date and location for possible matchups later to fighters known to be in that area at that time.

What I found instead was evidence that the photo was a sham. It was, apparently, a real enough execution, but not by Gomer's Boys, or even in the Middle East - it was a third of the way around the world, in China, an act perpetrated by Chinese cannibals and recorded by them.

Likewise a photo of crucified women I had found - it wasn't ISIS, or even recent. It was perpetrated by Ottoman Turks during the genocide against the Armenians. Even worse, it wasn't an actual photo - it was a frame out of an old movie about the genocide. It was, in other words, staged to dramatize a "documentary" made from the report that a refugee woman made regarding what she had seen during her escape. An OLD documentary - around 1916, I think.

The moral of the story is as my dear old dad used to tell me, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see". Track the reports and "evidence" down. Track it as far as you can, and at the end of the trail, if it's genuine, there will be specific information attached to it that can be verified. Nothing happens in a vacuum - it always happens in a specific place, with specific participants, at a specific time. If those things can't be verified, then it's probably not real.

Some of those photos were found on a Catholic website railing against the atrocities - the problem is, the atrocities they were railing against weren't done by ISIS, or recently. To be honest, I just stopped trying to verify anything I found there, since everything I tried to verify came up bunk.

That's probably a microcosmic display of the macrocosmic intent of this disinformation effort. While the ISIS atrocities are real enough, if people run into verified BS in trying to track some of it down, they'll stop tracking ALL of it down, and chalk it ALL up to BS.

Just like I did with that one website.

It's really a pretty brilliant psyop, as psyops go. It's bold, and risky in the short run, but has potential for a HUGE payoff in the long run.

Perhaps what troubles me the most is knowing that those who are, perhaps unwittingly, assisting to spread the false reports are playing directly into ISIS hands. They ARE DOING ISIS' WORK FOR ISIS, whether they know it or not. The truth is bad enough, and far worse than most of living humanity has ever seen. There is no need to "embellish" it... so don't. Verify before you report, or you are doing the job ISIS should be doing themselves... and I don't think you'll like the payscale when they win their war with YOUR help.



edit on 2014/9/18 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:28 PM
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Great thread S+F

My personal belief is that ISIS is what it is. No need for them to lie about what they do, they just do it.

When humans become brutalised by war there's no real cut-off point for them, they will do unspeakable things to other people. Add the religious zealotry and you truly have a foe to be reckoned with.

I will grant that they make sure their propaganda machine is well oiled and, as we have been seeing over the past year, they document and disseminate their atrocities well. Like I said in another thread, I'm positive they would hold off beheading somebody until they made sure at least one camera was available to record the act.

I agree with you when you posit the notion that the US, or whoever, doesn't need to fabricate stories about ISIS, the islamic state is well able to manage their own image, and that is one of savagery in war, intolerance for their idealogical opposites and devout piety before their God.


edit on 18-9-2014 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:40 PM
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Hi B

SandF
perchance, are you referring to the Israeli Secret Intelligence Service ISIS?...

Excerpt from "The Complete History of Israel's Intelligence Community: Mossad, Aman, and Shin Bet ( C-SPAN1990)"
www.truthmediatv.org...

or the Israeli led US funded friends of John McCain, and armed at Benghazi with stinger missles by Hillary, ISIS?...

ISIS Leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi Trained by Israeli Mossad, NSA Documents Reveal

www.globalresearch.ca...

haha, and the peeps wonder at why the confusion about who is runnin who...?
and to those that advocate the ummm "bombing" of ISIS:
friendly fire might explain the un-willing coalicious of what?
two?
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posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: nenothtu

I recently came across a photo online showing a young child literally being stood on by a man, attached to the photo was a paragraph detailing how this was a child of Christian parents in Syria and the man standing upon him was a Muslim.

It was a shocking image.

I had to find the source for this picture. After a while of searching I discovered that this picture was from India and the man who was standing upon the child was a witch doctor of sorts and this was how he "cured" children. As much as the picture disturbed me I was relieved.

I found that image on more than one website, where people commented on the evil of Islam etc.

I agree with your post.

It seems to me that when people or a group or whoever feel they have a dog in this fight then they will use whatever images etc they can get their hands on to "spread the message" about ISIS, thing is they don't have to look far for the real thing, beheading videos are not that hard to find.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: boncho

That being said, the body that makes up the group are any and every recruit they can find that either a) hates the west or b) wants to glorify Islam.



Nice assessment! Short, sweet, to the point, and very accurate!




However, the current separation in the FSA + Kurds vs IS seems to be pretty clear. In other words, the US finally positioned themselves or their actors in the ME to the proper positions. However, people are lagging a little behind and focusing on how and who got there as opposed to the current situation.



If the US is still backing the FSA, they're backing the wrong horse. I can see that happening, though, because the current administration is incapable of focusing on a threat when they have other people that they just want to be rid of, for whatever unfathomable reason. Just as Bush took his eye off the ball of Afghanistan to needlessly invade Iraq, Obama will take his eye off the ball of ISIS in order to go needlessly go after Assad. War on two fronts is never a good idea if it can be avoided, and backing the FSA (after all their first purpose in life is to be rid of Assad, not ISIS) is the first step in that wrong direction. The FSA is AQ in drag, just as that Syrian "governing council in exile" in Turkey is nothing more than the Muslim Brotherhood in drag. As I said long ago, AQ is nothing more than the military wing of the Muslim Brotherhood. Those who survive this faux-pas by the administration will live to see that verified, much to their own detriment.

The FSA, The Muslim Brotherhood, and ISIS ALL have the exact same goals - their only quarrel is who is going to run that joint. That is the ONLY reason they are fighting among themselves.




What I mean to say, is that everything has finally fallen into place now, with a good/guy vs bad guy, and everyone that doesn't want to follow the current story is getting sidetracked staring at how the story emerged to begin with.



Here I differ - there ARE no good guys in this fight. Only bad guys and worse guys.




It's kind of like if the KKK was in the south promoting all their BS, and someone came along and somehow managed to position them into a real place of power. Are you going to ignore the current state and let them rule the south (while arguing over how they came to be), or are you going to work on an a plan on how to reduce them back to their backwards group of blowhards that should never have risen to anything more than that.



ISIS does not need to be "reduced", they need to be ERASED, with any surviving members living in fear every instant of every day of the rest of their lives that it might one day be discovered that they were once members of Gomer's Legions. ISIS makes the KKK look like inept choir boys. It's really not a fair comparison, but then again I don't think there ARE any really fair comparisons. Both the Huns and the Mongols, in their conquests, were gentlemen relative to ISIS.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: nenothtu

I think this part cannot be stressed enough when you said




Verify before you report, or you are doing the job ISIS should be doing themselves... and I don't think you'll like the payscale when they win their war with YOUR help.


Verifying before you post stories is always important - but never moreso than in times of war.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: Danbones

Hi Dan! Thanks for stopping by...

and yes... I am talking about them.

But as Boncho said - what matters most is that this gets ended. For everyone's sake. The who should also be accountable besides the persons who make up ISIS is secondary right now, and should be decided during elections - and trials.
edit on 18-9-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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a reply to: seabhac-rua

So are you saying that the false stories are (reasonably) innocent and not a psyop by ISIS themselves to be able to later manage their image and create confusion in the now?

I'm just trying to get a handle on what you are saying...
edit on 18-9-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

yes I agree with your agree with Boncho...
but because this is all so dishonest at the top and so ignored at the bottom I just don`t hold out much hope...
while I love the movie Lawrence of Arabia as a Movie, I hate that it shows just the start of the modern Chapter of the crusade dialectic is still, after a couple thousand years, still in War - reigns - happily ) mode



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

I personally believe that ISIS may promote and exaggerate their exploits, I don't believe that they need to fabricate anything, but then again assuming that they wouldn't do such a thing would be foolish.

As far as actual fabrications we can find online I believe they are mostly done by people who have an axe to grind with Islam or ISIS or whatever, like Christian groups, as exemplified by nenothtu.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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I have had a long standing mistrust of the media period ALL media, East/West/What have you.

They are, depending on where one looks, either just after their bottom lines or dictated to by their Government *sometimes both and I'm sure many are influenced by a certain individual or groups of individuals with investments and interests in any given outcome which they'd like to see resolved in their favor.

Professional objective journalism is dead in my opinion. I went searching myself for info on ISIS and came across some beheading videos that left no doubt IS carried them out no two ways about it. Quite graphic. It wasn't something that one would want to watch at dinner time.

None of the major networks carried it. I guess it wasn't family friendly.



edit on 18-9-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: seabhac-rua^
as I understand it this ISIS has full access to the Internet the NSA can't track their internet access LOL, and the beheading vids cant be verified

Staged Foley, Sotloff Beheading Videos ‘Not Evidence’, US Determined to Wage War of Fear on Its Own People

21stcenturywire.com...

so this is evidence?... reason for religious hate, and reason to change anti terrorism laws, and reason start more war?
no jurisprudence?
no reason.
How far from jesus, mohammad, and Goerge Washington, can you get?
bearing false witness is supposed to be both a sin and a crime...
letting one's self be played by the PTB like this is just a damned shame

(no offence ment to any posters here, just sayin)


edit on Thupm9b20149America/Chicago44 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: Danbones


Hi Dan! It's not difficult, given the content of your post, to divine your political leanings. No problem with that, I've always maintained that one must take a stand, and defend it whatever it may be. The only real problem is that you need to guard against your political stance causing you to take YOUR eye off the ball - don't get sidetracked away from the fight against ISIS by going on the attack against your own favorite boogey man. that's what Obama is about to do, and it won't work out any better for him than it did for Bush.

Don't repeat their mistakes.




ISIS Leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi Trained by Israeli Mossad, NSA Documents Reveal

www.globalresearch.ca...

haha, and the peeps wonder at why the confusion about who is runnin who...?
and to those that advocate the ummm "bombing" of ISIS:
friendly fire might explain the un-willing coalicious of what?
two?


A very interesting, tantalizing quote - and an excellent example of what this thread is about!

I tracked the quote.

I read the story.

I was intrigued by the likes of Global Research getting pulled into the Israeli debate, and taking a stance in their article stating outright:



NSA documents refer to recent implementation of the hornet’s nest to protect the Zionist entity by creating religious and Islamic slogans.


At your link, emphasis mine.

"The Zionist Entity" is NOT a NSA phrase. I was shocked to see it at Global Research, as if they had taken a stand in the matter, and divested Israel of it's statehood unilaterally.

Then I read the following in the fine print at the bottom of the article:




Disclaimer: The contents of this article are of sole responsibility of the author(s). The Centre for Research on Globalization will not be responsible for any inaccurate or incorrect statement in this article.



So who WAS the actual "author(s)"? The phrase "the Zionist entity" is a Muslim Brotherhood phrase. The original article is at The Gulf Daily News in Bahrain. Here is the specific story at GDN. Furthermore, it is entirely unsourced, with NO corroborating evidence to support the claim. it may be true, or it may not, but without verification, I can't accept it as factual. One thing is certain - the original story at GDN was written with "spin"... in other words, it's a propaganda piece. I suspect that may be the reason for the lack of evidence to back the claim - either it doesn't exist to begin with, OR going to the source will reveal facts not presented, giving the lie to the spin.

Don't just swallow stuff before you know what it is you're eating.



edit on 2014/9/18 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: seabhac-rua

I think I thought for the most part - that the people promoting the falsehoods were just so agenda driven not to verify source - until it was CNN who did it.

Now, CNN is definitely agenda driven as they have their own biases they don't often even try to cover up, but I have never known them to outright lie either - at least not knowingly.

But yesterday they posted a story, which apparently they believed was true, but then retracted it a few hours later saying there was a mistake made in the "interpretation" of their written story to what was actually true and they were pulling the story until they could make some verifications. (basically)

That is unlike CNN - they are generally better than posting blatantly incorrect information in the first place as they check source - which means the source they used was seen as a trustworthy someone in the "know" as to the goings on, on the ground in Syria.

This led me to believe many of these inconsistencies in reporting might be originating from a single source - someone people would trust as actually knowing what was happening in Syria, and someone journalistic types would feel secure about passing along the given information as being correct material.

You are correct there may be just many agenda driven people faking stuff - but for those with an agenda faking things isn't necessary with all that is actually true. Which led me back again to the above - a single source with the most to gain.

It's a theory anyway...


edit on 18-9-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

I wouldn't be surprised if Israel, the US, and ISIS were all three in bed together regarding all the propaganda. Chew on that one if you will.

Some pictures and videos I have seen coming out of the Middle East the past couple months from some of my connections I won't talk about, because I cannot explain why they are doing the things they are doing. I can only assume and we all know what happens when you assume something.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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originally posted by: seabhac-rua
a reply to: nenothtu

It seems to me that when people or a group or whoever feel they have a dog in this fight then they will use whatever images etc they can get their hands on to "spread the message" about ISIS, thing is they don't have to look far for the real thing, beheading videos are not that hard to find.


Very true, but in the intelligence community, there is a concept known as "unintended consequences". A lot of folks, especially at ATS, refer to it as "blowback", but the proper phrase is "unintended consequences". What the people who are doing this may not understand (or they may, which is a chilling possibility) is that there will most certainly be unintended consequences of their reporting false information like that, just making it up as they go along and attributing it to ISIS.

It's like the story of "the Boy Who Cried Wolf" - they may push their agenda so hard that when the wolf really IS at the door, everyone stays asleep, knowing the clarion call MUST be bunk, just like the rest of the clarion calls before.

Unintended consequences... or they may BE intentional, which is a chilling thought.



edit on 2014/9/18 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



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