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Manhunt for a Cop-Hating Pennsylvania ‘Survivalist’

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posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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originally posted by: starviego
The last thing they would do is pick it up by hand.


You'd think so, right? I wouldn't handle it. And it is a pill bottle painted black. Even if it was full of black powder, you won't get enough containment to get a 'bang' out of that.




posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 02:48 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam
Thanks. I know I remember seeing a demo where someone shot C4 and set it on fire and it didn't blow.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 03:46 AM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
It looks similar in shape to that pill bottle, but also larger, unless that gloved person has really tiny hands.


There are a few different common sizes of pill bottles, the skinny ones a little over an inch in diameter, and the fatter ones as seen in the pic as a bomb. I have several pill bottles here in front of me and the cap is a dead giveaway it's a pill bottle, I'm almost tempted to spray paint one for comparison pics but I'm a little scared for obvious reasons
Holding one in my full grown man hands the bottle matches the proportions of the pic perfectly.

Plus there aren't any PVC caps that look anything like that, and you can see the orange tint of the bottle underneath where the spray paint doesn't cover so well. You wouldn't want to spray paint the tube THEN glue the nuts on as the glue would only adhere to the paint and fall off. Same reason for not painting the nuts first. So the nuts get glued then the whole thing painted, and the paint job wasn't very thorough. You can see exposed metal inside the nut threads, on some interior sides of the nuts, and some nooks and crannies down on the tube part itself showing the orange tint, although darker for obvious reasons.


edit on 1-10-2014 by James1982 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-10-2014 by James1982 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-10-2014 by James1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 04:05 AM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Bedlam
Thanks. I know I remember seeing a demo where someone shot C4 and set it on fire and it didn't blow.


If you combine the two, it'll go off. Heck, if you set it on fire and stomp it out you'll be known as "Nathan of the Nine Toes" forever after.

But what C4 and Semtex really want is a big shock with some heat. You can shoot it with an incendiary round and get it to go off sort of erratically (if you are down to doing that, you shoot detcord instead and use the detcord to set off the charge), but the very best way is a small amount of high brisance explosive in the form of a blasting cap of some sort. I've seen a guy who makes very nicely machined tripwire fuzing for C4 that uses shotgun primers as the business end of the firechain.

I considered putting down a nice essay on what you need to do to get this stuff but alas, I was asked nicely not to do that anymore by my sponsoring agency some years back. It's probably not appropriate for ATS anyway.

eta: you can sometimes get C4 to burst into flames if you shoot it. It doesn't happen very often, though, and it's not really useful. But if you're carrying the goods and they take a round, you might have to chuck it and run away real real fast
edit on 1-10-2014 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 06:03 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Uh, actually setting it on fire and stomping on it doesn't do anything but stick burning plastic to your boot. I just watched an old Mythbusters where they tried everything except detcord and electric spark to set it off with no effect. C4 was designed to be very stable. They even shot it with tracers and incendiary rounds and it didn't go off. The myth was using C4 to cook your food, if you want to look it up and watch it, very informative.

As far as this manhunt, I would think they would have caught him by now, with all the tech they have at their disposal, or he's completely gone.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 06:49 AM
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originally posted by: thov420
a reply to: Bedlam

Uh, actually setting it on fire and stomping on it doesn't do anything but stick burning plastic to your boot.


YOU can try that if you like.



The myth was using C4 to cook your food, if you want to look it up and watch it, very informative.


It burns very well.



As far as this manhunt, I would think they would have caught him by now, with all the tech they have at their disposal, or he's completely gone.


People do stupid things. Even when they can leave the area, they tend not to.

BTW, drop on by, I'll show you how to make C4. It takes a couple of days, and it's very boring. Home-made tends to have more HMX in it, so it's a little touchier. The best part - none of the reagents in the hexamine sequence are on the watch list. And there's a guy near and dear to ATS that will sell you the entire kit.
edit on 1-10-2014 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 07:34 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

No thanks, I'll take others word on it. I was just saying if others were interested there's a whole show on it. Not that I trust the Mythbusters 100% but they are usually spot on for their tests. It would be interesting to learn how to make it but I'm prob already on some lists somewhere, I don't need anything extra added to it
.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 08:01 AM
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originally posted by: thov420
a reply to: Bedlam

I don't need anything extra added to it
.


Entertainingly enough, this guy is an ATS legendary darling as a subject, not a member. At least, I don't think he's a member.

But I was cruising the net with my Wyle Big Book O' Military Explosives reference book from my Army days in hand one day long ago with evil intent, and damn, there's a guy with the entire thing, glass ware and all, in a kit. And it's very complete. Everything you need to make the RDX/HMX part of it. Only he calls it a 'fireworks experimentation kit' or the like.

And the guy is...well known. It's a bit like finding Ingo Swann selling '___' kits.

eta: the guys who told me not to stomp burning C4 still had all their appendages. As do I. Having all your fingers and both eyes is a badge of honor for my MOS. If you made it out intact, you never #ed up TOO badly.


Now if only someone had warned me more emphatically about ear plugs.


edit on 1-10-2014 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 08:50 AM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Well the most I've played around with were M80's, Sparkler bomb's, and some gunpowder stuff a long time ago and that was fun but nowhere near safe lol. And yes, earplugs are always good with explosions, from gunshots to actual explosions. Kinda seems like a no-brainer to me lol. Not even so much for the loudness but for the shockwaves.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: thov420
a reply to: Bedlam

And yes, earplugs are always good with explosions, from gunshots to actual explosions.


Gunfire was what got me. That part of tv shows is just wrong - you get several guys cutting loose in a tight area and you'll all come out going What? Huh? for a day or two even with foam pluggies.

You don't get medals for middle range hearing loss and tinnitus, sad to say. Not even attaboys. "Tom came away hearing everyone like a bad SSB receiver for two days in the best Army tradition, and has the thanks of a grateful nation for 2 dB of midrange loss"



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: James1982
Ah, I see, I guess I have never had a large enough prescription to warrant anything other than the skinny ones lol. I googled around a lot last night, trying to find any kind of pipe or pvc cap that looked similar to that and came up empty. Nothing that had any kind of slots like that.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: TKDRL

Yes that's 100% a prescription pill bottle as has been stated before. I recognized it right away from some of my mom's meds.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: 12m8keall2c

It's beginning to sound like some hollywood drama lol.

Apparently this guy can outrun dogs and disappear into thin air when people on the perimeter have spotted him. OR maybe they are just seeing things. Who knows, maybe the cops planted the jacket and wrappers to give them an excuse to keep the searches going.




Before that they have said he has approached the perimeter of their search area, staying just far enough away that officers could not get a clear shot at him. They say dogs flushed him out at one stage but he was far enough away to flee.





Bivens also revealed that Frein had bought equipment that would help him build a bunker in the woods. However he said the intensive search had failed to discover that bunker.




That cracks me up. So he bought a bulldozer and a concrete truck? Or are they saying he bought a shovel and would have us believe he is like a superhuman goliath and can dig and make a bunker by hand?


They'll find out that he has a few underdground hiding places. That's how he apparently "disappears". As far as avoiding track dogs, here's an easy how to :www.ehow.com... He's a skilled survivalist who has been planning this for years and has probably prepared a few small bunkers in the area that have yet been detected by LE. The police spokesman made a statement yesterday says Frein is becoming frustrated. Gee, officer, project much?



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: UnBreakable
That method would only really work if you are miles ahead of the dog and nowhere within sight though. Good luck pulling those tricks when you are close enough to get spotted by searchers visually, as he supposedly was multiple times.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: UnBreakable

That method would only really work if you are miles ahead of the dog and nowhere within sight though. Good luck pulling those tricks when you are close enough to get spotted by searchers visually, as he supposedly was multiple times.



Either way, I don't think we'll ever know the real story. Me thinks this will end by him shooting himself, suicide by cop, or they'll just do away with him because they're tired of him stringing them along for three weeks. Kudos to him though, not for shooting the troopers of course, but proving that one lone survivalist with minimal supplies can elude many LEOs with high tech hardware, heliocopters, and dogs.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: UnBreakable
He has shown them to be inept as hell, that is for sure. I wonder how much the whole thing has cost so far. Be willing to bet it cost more than my house probably lol.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: UnBreakable
He has shown them to be inept as hell, that is for sure. I wonder how much the whole thing has cost so far. Be willing to bet it cost more than my house probably lol.


How many people do you think they have working? 30? The average pay is what 770/week? (based on 40k/year). Factor in overtime pay and that's $1155 per person per week. That brings it to $103,950 or so (used 3 weeks as the estimate) plus equipment costs.

Putting it in this context it's actually far less expensive than I thought it would be. I would imagine they can budget far higher for these types of operations.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan
Yeah, more than my house going by that estimate lmao. Only ~1/4 of the house I lost back in NY, still a whole lot of money for chasing one dude around the woods. I guess it's lucky these kinds of things don't happen that often, or we would be having huge tax hikes to pay for it.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 05:51 PM
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a reply to: TKDRL

I just did some quick looking around and the LAPD claims the Dorner manhunt could have "cost millions" yet they never once cited over a million as their costs. That makes me think Dorner as a comparison (shorter search, MANY more officers) still didn't cost even a million.

This has actually been a bit of an eye opener for me, I thought manhunts were at least 10x more expensive than they apparently are. Lets face it, $100k is a lot for us but that's nothing for even a local government to say nothing of state governments with budgets the size of european countries.



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

start adding zeroes, aazadan.. with near 1, 000 individuals having participated in the search thus far, plus you have to factor in all the other resources they've employed [not counting patrol cars and other equipment.


I'd venture a guess of well over a million to date, but there's a fair portion that's likely being covered by the various federal agencies and such who are also participating/helping out.

at about $3, 000-$5,000 /hour per chopper...... and it just goes through the roof at that point.



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