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Orthodox Celtic Monks,the First in America?

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posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 11:46 AM
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Before we go any further let me say I'm only just learning about this now... So I am far from being and expert on the subject.
However I grew up hearing stories of Bill McGlone, he lived over in La Junta, Colorado 125 miles due east of my place just off of Hwy 160. I should warn ya all, Bill McGlone was and is dismissed by the standing academic and scientific community. he was an outsider and his idea that an Arabic language (Ogam) , now extinct for millennia, was mingled with the etchings and rock patings of the Plains Indians scared the status quo...

Exerpt from 'THE OGAMS OF THE SUN TEMPLE'


Summary
On the walls, and within a cave of a group of tower rocks in Colorado, various inscriptions
have been found that appear to be comprised of letters of the Ogam alphabet. Ogam was in
use, principally in the British Isles, between 400 and 900 A.D.. Some examples of Ogam
have also been located in mainland Europe, but it is not considered to have been brought to
the New World, particularly before the time of Columbus. The script found in America also
contains certain properties that, specialists say, are not inherent in the Old World version
of the Ogam script. On that basis, they have been dismissed as unauthentic. Nevertheless,
when translations of the Colorado Ogams have been attempted, they appear to make
linguistic sense and refer to certain astronomical and solar alignments that have
subsequently been observed to actually occur. Certain engravings, associated with the
inscriptions, also appear to contain affinities with an Old World religion.


Research cross referenced by "ORTHODOX CELTIC MONKS, THE FIRST IN AMERICA?
By Fr. Alexey Young
Source: Orthodox Life, No. 1, 2001, p. 33-36.



Not only do the lines/marking translate into old Celtic, but the translation is verified by the concurrence of the alignment with the sun.

The first inscription read, "[We are the] People of the Sun." And the inscriptions on the bump, protruding from the flat wall read, "On the day of Bel, the sun will strike here."


pretty wild stuff right?
Anyway while I've never been to this sun temple place I have seen these kinds of marking before...
North of Bolder along the Little Thompson Creek there are two such places. one known to hikers as 'Inscription cave' and another called 'Standing Rock' In reality it's not standing but laying along the creek bed, but you can still walk right up to it. Or at least you could before the Thompson flooded and wiped out a big section of Bolder Proper.

I also know of one more of these kinds of markers... this one is along what's known as the 'Old Spanish Trail' circa 16th century used by early Spanish explorers... As a kid hiking between Cortez and Durango I've seen a few of these... dad claimed they were milestones/ trail markers, but a local story along with a new group of investigators are looking into whether or not ancient Celtic people, really did come here, hundreds of years before Columbus to tag and graffiti our canyons and rocks?

As I said above... I'm only just learning about this stuff now... if true it's mind twisting stuff and little wonder something this profound would make the standing academic community want to back up and take a pause...
More on Bill

edit on 17-9-2014 by HardCorps because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/18/2014 by semperfortis because: corrected all caps




posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: HardCorps
Very Interesting, HardCorps
I wonder if this might lend credence to the Mormon story of the group that migrated from the British Isles, long ago...?
Thanks for the info.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: HardCorps
If I recall, ogham is a representation..perhaps an analogue...of the Latin alphabet, and it was used primarily for marking the edge of stones, posts, etc. Also, monks would use Latin. This doesn't pass the sniff test.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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I would note that while an interesting speculation the use in ogham of lots of lines and lines being a common style of rock drawing one can often be mistaken in believing those lines are ogham.

Additionally if the highlighted portion of the image IS ogham it doesn't spell (AFAICT) what 'they' say is the message.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: HardCorps
If I recall, ogham is a representation..perhaps an analogue...of the Latin alphabet, and it was used primarily for marking the edge of stones, posts, etc. Also, monks would use Latin. This doesn't pass the sniff test.



Not quite.

Ogham was a representation of the Gaelic language. Some scholars put it's origins as far back as the first century BC. It's probably older, it is mentioned in the epic 'Tain Bo Cuailnge' circa 0-100 AD.

Also OP, I know it's obvious, but shouldn't your thread be titled "ORTHODOX CELTIC MONKS, THE FIRST EUROPEANS IN AMERICA?" ???



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: seabhac-rua

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: HardCorps
If I recall, ogham is a representation..perhaps an analogue...of the Latin alphabet, and it was used primarily for marking the edge of stones, posts, etc. Also, monks would use Latin. This doesn't pass the sniff test.



Not quite.

Ogham was a representation of the Gaelic language. Some scholars put it's origins as far back as the first century BC. It's probably older, it is mentioned in the epic 'Tain Bo Cuailnge' circa 0-100 AD.

Also OP, I know it's obvious, but shouldn't your thread be titled "ORTHODOX CELTIC MONKS, THE FIRST EUROPEANS IN AMERICA?" ???
Perhaps, but I referred to the alphabet, not the language.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: seabhac-rua

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: HardCorps
If I recall, ogham is a representation..perhaps an analogue...of the Latin alphabet, and it was used primarily for marking the edge of stones, posts, etc. Also, monks would use Latin. This doesn't pass the sniff test.



Not quite.

Ogham was a representation of the Gaelic language. Some scholars put it's origins as far back as the first century BC. It's probably older, it is mentioned in the epic 'Tain Bo Cuailnge' circa 0-100 AD.

Also OP, I know it's obvious, but shouldn't your thread be titled "ORTHODOX CELTIC MONKS, THE FIRST EUROPEANS IN AMERICA?" ???
Perhaps, but I referred to the alphabet, not the language.


I stand corrected.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Ogham might have come from runes instead, which may or may not have come from Etruscan/Latin, so given that it doesn't translate into Latin doesn't necessarily mean anything.

In saying that, it doesn't really look like Ogham (not that I'm in any way, shape or form an Ogham expert) but it does remind me of the boat petroglyphs from Sweden (maybe depicting time/seasons?).



There's a story at the back of my mind about an Irish minister who was meant to have gone away to America, which I'll need to go and find. But anyway, it's great to wonder about this sort of thing - it's possible.

a reply to: HardCorps

This is a great thread, S&F. I really love this subject.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: seabhac-rua

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: seabhac-rua

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: HardCorps
If I recall, ogham is a representation..perhaps an analogue...of the Latin alphabet, and it was used primarily for marking the edge of stones, posts, etc. Also, monks would use Latin. This doesn't pass the sniff test.



Not quite.

Ogham was a representation of the Gaelic language. Some scholars put it's origins as far back as the first century BC. It's probably older, it is mentioned in the epic 'Tain Bo Cuailnge' circa 0-100 AD.

Also OP, I know it's obvious, but shouldn't your thread be titled "ORTHODOX CELTIC MONKS, THE FIRST EUROPEANS IN AMERICA?" ???
Perhaps, but I referred to the alphabet, not the language.


I stand corrected.
Maybe...I am reaching way back in the memory banks. Ogham really does remain the go-to script when random scratches require transmogrification into ancient wisdom. I need a bumper sticker...

edit on 17-9-2014 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: HardCorps
If I recall, ogham is a representation..perhaps an analogue...of the Latin alphabet, and it was used primarily for marking the edge of stones, posts, etc. Also, monks would use Latin. This doesn't pass the sniff test.



I cant understand why someone would think these were "monks" considering Bel is being mentioned. LOL

As far as any sort of Latin connection at all, as if these "monks" were schooled in the church age, the Latins were surrounded by Celts in Italy before Rome ever overcame the Etruscans.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe
I think you might be referring to The Voyage Of St Brendan?

St Brendan



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: seabhac-rua
a reply to: beansidhe
I think you might be referring to The Voyage Of St Brendan?

St Brendan

Make no mistake, I don't just toss these speculations out all willy-nilly. I prefer it out on the fringes, but I recognise the need for proof before we call it fact. I enjoy reading the more literate conjecture, and welcome new ideas. It would be great if we could actually confirm St. Brendan, Sinclair, even find proof of further Viking and Basque incursions into this new land.

But...we need to be mindful about our standards of proof. Just my 2 cents worth...



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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a reply to: HardCorps

One major problem with comparing what is believed to be american Celtic Ogam and traditional Irish Ogam is that traditional Irish Ogam would be newer. Many folks, like say McGlone, try to work east from Ireland. What we are probably seeing in america is much older proto, if you will, Ogam, which takes us farther back into the early Bronze age.

What we have the most of, in my opinion, in North America is proto Sinaitic, proto Ogam and an early form of handy Egyptian Hieroglyphics left here by prospectors, explorers and the like very early.

Now we hear a good deal about the copper pits around the great lakes but what no one may have ever considered are the old copper mines found in the New Mexico territory. The early Spanish took unbelievable amounts of copper from these old mines to the point, it would seem, that it was their only reason for going there. That area of the country is far richer in very old world communications on stone than anywhere in NA. Much of it appears to be way markings, claims, ect from bronze age miners coming out of the Mediterranean area during the early middle Bronze age.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 04:21 AM
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originally posted by: seabhac-rua
a reply to: beansidhe
I think you might be referring to The Voyage Of St Brendan?

St Brendan


St. Brendan, yes that's him! Thank you very much. I do apologise, he was a saint, not a minister lol!

We know he existed but whether he really went away overseas, we don't know but...but...I always think that it is worth listening to folklore, that it's important and that it is meaningful. You're right Johnny, that it doesn't constitute proof but it certainly does no harm to wonder. My question I suppose would be in what language does Bem la a Bel mean 'on the day of the sun etc?' I don't know what he means by 'old celtic'. I wonder if it (BM LH BL) translates better into gaelic? I'll have a look.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 04:26 AM
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a reply to: Logarock

Hey Log! It's nice to see you here!

Your proto-ogham idea is a good one, and it reminds me (of course) about the metal-workers extraordinaire, the Tuatha de Danaan, who as you well know, were thought in some interpretations to have come from the lands in the west.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: seabhac-rua

I was being lazy and just copied the title from the Orthodox Life website.
besides it seemed to have enough Umph to grab attentions so I went with it.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: Logarock

Let's look at it from a different side...
Remember the story of Sequoyah the man who learned English writing then used that as a model to create his own written version of the Cherokee language.

Some symbols do resemble the Latin, Greek and even the Cyrillic scripts' letters, but the sounds are completely different, yet the point is he took what was already there and modified it to his own purposes...

Who's to say that's not what's happened here? The indigenous people learned how to make these chicken scratches and assigned their own meaning to them?

Just saying...



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: HardCorps

I see you are knew to this but yea that could happen. There is another entire area of this study that seeks to demonstrate how "native" words in several languages are the same as the Celtic ect in meaning and pronunciation. That's in the absence of anything written for the most part.

As far as the use of lets just say Celtic Ogam on rocks some claim, as you have demonstrated, that the are readable in the language in question so these wouldn't fall under the category of native copying them and apply their own meaning.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

Good to see you! Almost the entirety of the proto sinaitic is found associated with miners.


edit on 18-9-2014 by Logarock because: n



posted on Sep, 20 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: HardCorps

Hi HardCorps (and everyone else). I was looking at stone carvings for another thread (I haven't forgotten Log, I promise!) when I came across this article which you all might already know about, but it was new to me.

The Peterborough Petroglyphs

In short, these date from around 900-1400AD, so quite 'modern' really (although some suggest a much,much earlier date), and are found in Ontario, Canada.
They have a couple of curious features:


The boat carvings bear no resemblance to the traditional boat of the Native Americans. One solar boat — a stylized shaman vessel with a long mast surmounted by the sun — is typical of petroglyphs found in northern Russia and Scandanavia.

... Another vessel depicted in the petroglyphs is a large ship with banks of oars and figure-heads at bow and stern. There is a large steering oar at the stern, a necessary feature only for vessels that are 100 feet or more in length.
However, the Algonkian people who inhabited the region never produced anything more seaworthy than a birch-bark canoe or a dugout. Even reluctant archaeologists admit that the ships “do not look like real Algonkian canoes” but steer away from any uncomfortable conclusions about pre-Columbian visitors by speculating that the vessels are simply a shaman’s idea of magical canoes that travel the universe.

Some historians and researchers believe there is more to the petroglyphs than meets the eye. Some maintain that they are in fact a sky map of the heavens based on European tradition from 3100 BC. Evidence includes four signs which are the same as those found for the identical astronomical position at Lewes, England, leading to a possible speculative connection between the Peterborough petroglyphs and the megalithic people of Ancient Britain.


Here's the boat with the rudder:



And the 'sun God':



Some more info here

Was a community documenting visitors who came to their shores, using borrowed iconography to illustrate their identity? It's an exciting thought.


edit on 20-9-2014 by beansidhe because: sp



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