Will the 2016 election be about ending the war on drugs?

a reply to: boncho

The only thing silly is trying to run a business while surfing ATS, in the middle of a debate - then SHTF as did earlier today.
I apologize, it won't happen again.

Let's start over, I will first give you my stance:

Marijuana should be legal.
Heroin and Cocaine should be illegal, but decriminalized.

Now I have to point out I choose this by default as I will try to explain to you now. Do I wish Heroin and Cocaine were legal? Well, YES I do! Along with meth, '___', opium, mushrooms, X, PCP and the many other's, but I do not live in an idealized world. The world I live in is filled with corrupt politicians, profit hungry corporations, opportunistic individuals and generally stupid people. If you live in a world that is different then mine please stop reading, there is no need to continue this.

The war on drugs is a farce. For decades we have been lied to by all types of propaganda that has been over exaggerated and often false. The war on drugs has given the entire country to organized crime and gangs fighting over control of the illegal drug market. The biggest gang involved in this war, is the one wearing police uniforms. City law enforcement is a empire of entrapment, warrants sworn out on false pretenses, coerced plea bargains, perjured testimony by jailhouse snitches, and civil forfeiture robbery. This system feeds the cops, the lawyers, the judges, the jails, the municipalities and up, and up.

Other big players in the war on drugs are the cartels. Media driven propaganda has told us they are savage, power hungry, money hungry, murderous groups that want nothing but to get us all hooked on drugs so they can keep the supply train moving and money flowing in. Is it any wonder they are this way now, they are at war with the USA over drugs, they supply. Due to enforcement and seizures drugs trickle in and in combination with the supply and demand structure, there is not enough supply to meet the demand. So dealers cut their products and quality falls so they can meet this demand, but what would happen if the USA would legalize these drugs? Well first the cartels would probably build a wall from Texas to California made from heroin and coc aine, it would be like someone opened up a faucet! And as supply goes through the roof, so would quality, along with a tremendous drop in price. Champagne would fall from the heavens and everyone would live in bliss to their limits because it is their free choice to do so, except maybe the ones that stem to lose money on this move. . . but there is some debate to all this for the CIA some consider the biggest cartel of them all!

Well that leads us to a tricky question: Why should heroin and coc aine be legalized to begin with? (please answer)
It can't just be because it will be cheaper, better quality or because I(we) should be allowed to do what we want with our consumptuous needs, our medical or entertainment needs. But that's the easy part because the real reason the question is so tricky is because you need to convince someone. You need to convince every parent with children especially those that have had kids killed by drunken drivers. You need to convince every individual that has been robbed, raped, extorted, addicted, burdened, forsaken, punished, rehabilitated, manipulated, incarcerated and hurt by these drugs in their past. You need to convince the religious nuts, the corporations, the politicians, the doctors, colleges, the media, the tourism agencies. You need to convince the drug dealers, the cops, the lawyers, the prosecutors, the defense attorneys, the judges, the jail/prison complex, the municipalities - everyone that stands to lose a dollar from this new law will need to be convinced why it should be legalized! It better be a good answer.

Once it's legalized then the corporations WILL start to move in(I believe you mentioned this earlier). With corporations comes liability, insurance, more laws, more lawyers and even more politicians. Building codes, zoning, taxes, licenses but you know all about this stuff already. And it will be a good thing because we all know how much insurance companies, corporations and politicians have our real interests at heart, especially if Big Pharma gets involved and you know they will try. Thank god we will have the start venture capitalists and entrepreneurs who would want to get into the industry if it were legalized and open to the market. Well the venture capitalists and entrepreneurs I've worked with are not stupid when it comes to in-vest-ments. Most don't make a move until the market is fixed somehow and capital has previously been invested into production and start up, any good investor will tell you the chicken comes way before the egg and the egg is placed their by someone they know. Philip Morris I believe tried this when they stored 20 class A marijuana cigarette packs in a warehouse waiting for that day of federal legalization. Sadly, that day never came but why? Millions of dollars were to be made, the deficit gone in a year or two, again champagne would fall from the heavens and everyone would live in bliss to their limits because it is their free choice to do so, except maybe the ones that stem to lose money on this move. . .

Could it have something to do with that question again?
You seem very well versed, I'm sure you'll figure it out. It isn't like someone else has not come along in decades with that answer. Just think you'll be legendary, a pioneer in the industry. You can succeed where no one else ever has, you will be a billionaire. . . as long as the ones that stem to lose money on this move don't assassinate you first!

So why do I want heroin and coc aine to be illegal if I really wish it were legal?
That's such an easy question to answer you'll almost laugh, it's silly actually. Like I stated earlier I don't live in an idealized world, I live in the United States, NJ to be exact and have 2 beautiful small children ages 3 & 7. Anyone in NJ who has driven any amount of distance in a car will tell you people can't drive for s**t. Well just imagine how much better it will be when these drugs are legal and someone attempts to drive under the influence of one of them. Please, don't insult me or yourself by telling me that won't ever happen, because if it doesn't in your idealized world, I need to move to your location.

Well with the mid terms over and the results in pro pot ballot measures passed in 3 out of 4 location in a election with mostly republican participation.

Still think this isn't gonna be front and center with the up coming 2016 election cycle?

Marijuana won't be legal in the U.S., national or state, until you can walk into a "pub" or "coffee house", by yourself or with friends, and imbibe among and with other people you either know or don't know. Just like, ah, .... a bar? Then maybe it can be called an actually legal product.

a reply to: AnteBellum

One of the biggest fallacies keeping the war on drugs going is the saying that when drugs are legalized, people will start driving around intoxicated. This saying implies that they aren't already doing that. But we all know that isn't true. People drive while on drugs all the time, legality be damned. They also drive on pain killers, one of the fasted growing addictions in this country. And those are legal with a prescription, and we have LESS ways to test for them during a sobriety check than we do marijuana or alcohol (and marijuana's tests are already sketchy as hell).

I literally take the excuse that we shouldn't want to share the road with a bunch of drugged out drivers with a grain of salt. It's not like with legality, everyone will suddenly lose their rationality and start driving everywhere stoned. And even if they do, it's not like you weren't sharing the road with drugged out drivers before they were legalized.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Two years is a LONG time in politics. We have to see where the issues go from here. Yes, there is a potential that after these recent victories this past Tuesday for marijuana legalization that this issue will be front and center in 2016, but there is also the potential that the Republicans can figure out a way to squash it. I've argued before that this issue is bi-partisan, but there are still many of the old guard Republicans in office and they are mostly still anti-legalization.

a reply to: LDragonFire

What should be done in MHO is to start a drive to outlaw cigarettes and alcohol make them a scedual one drug and then see all the howling of it's my personal freedom to smoke and drink. That should bust this whole thing wide open.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Do you have small children? Yet?

I literally take the excuse that we shouldn't want to share the road with a bunch of drugged out drivers with a grain of salt. It's not like with legality, everyone will suddenly lose their rationality and start driving everywhere stoned. And even if they do, it's not like you weren't sharing the road with drugged out drivers before they were legalized.

Ask one parent that has lost a child to an intoxicated driver that and see what reaction you get.

As for me I would rather not contribute to 1 needless death for the sake of legalizing Heroin or Cocaine, as much as I would love to see it happen, there are too many idiots in this world. Plus if you understand how these drugs work in 'reality' it's not when the people are using it that they are the most dangerous. Fiend-ing for a bag of dope can make some folks drive 120mph in a 35mph zone to get to their dealer 15 seconds faster. As with crack and coc aine it's all about getting more and even if you give a crackhead a dump-truck of crack, it's not going to be enough! And watch what happens when they run out of it or money for it.

Marijuana and I'll say it again, is the only exception. By you giving some people freedom to use your taking away others freedom in turn. Don't believe me, spend some time at rehab and talk 'war-stories' with the recovering addicts, maybe you'll start to see differently before you have children/grandchildren someday.

a reply to: AnteBellum

My having small children is irrelevant, for the record no though (I don't want them). I'm going to quote a part of your post and see if you can see the irony in it.

Fiend-ing for a bag of dope can make some folks drive 120mph in a 35mph zone to get to their dealer 15 seconds faster.

As you can see, you are already acknowledging that people drive while stoned, so what does legalizing the drug change? People aren't speeding in and out of ghettos now?

It is poor form to say that a drug shouldn't be legalized because suddenly people will be driving while stoned. They already do that, plus it's not like suddenly driving while intoxicated will become legal if the drug is legalized. Also, for the THOUSANDTH time, pain narcotics are legal with a prescription and they are OPIATES, you know opium? The stuff that makes heroin? How are we stopping people from driving while on those drugs? That's called a double standard.