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Originally posted by Trent
Originally posted by syntaxer
When the government implements the draft and fellow American citizens are forced to fight to survive who overcome all odds while facing death shall then be considered "true heroes".
I disagree i think it's braver and thus more heroic to join willingly knowing full well you may be called apon by your country and asked to fight to defend it's way of life. I'm not a brave person and i have great respect for all who have died so i can sleep safely in my nice warm bed at night, i don't think i have the courage to do what our service men and women did and are still doing now. Like i said before, some soldiers do commit war crimes but the vast majority are brave honerable people. My grandfather joined the army before WW2 started and he did what he did in that war because he had to. He had no hatred for the Japanese he killed, when i was a very young boy i remember asking him if he killed anyone during the war. The look in his eyes and what he said is something i can even remember now, he just looked terribly sad and said "it was them or me" You can not even imagine what situations some of these soldiers face and i think most soldiers (who have grown up with moral values) do the best they possibly can in an impossible situation. I think calling them heroes is the least we can do to try to repay the dept that we all owe these people for protecting our way of life. You have to remember that they don't choose which wars they fight in, they join to protect their country and it's the government who decides how to do that.
[edit on 7-12-2004 by Trent]
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Originally posted by jsobecky
Where in Iraq are the Iraqi's being forced to "marked" with DNA and retina scans at the barrel of a gun?
Where have you been? Certainly not Fulluja?
Not, unless Australians are born criminals. In the case of US forces however, convicted criminals are drafted into the military.
Hold on there, I hear you say. "I am not supporting Bush," "I am not supporting the war" yet that is what you think, because in action, mind, body and heart, you are supporting "our heroes" who are supporting the administration of Bush.
You still have not answered my question. Where in Iraq are the Iraqi's being forced to being "marked" with DNA and retina scans at the barrel of a gun? You certainly are not referring to the security measures in effect in Fallujah, are you? I thought this was explained in several other posts. Go do some research.
BTW, residents of Fallujah, while being subjected to retina scans, are not being done so at gunpoint.
Earth to Indigo_Child: There is no draft.
Secondly, what is the problem with using convicted criminals as soldiers? You make it sound sooo bad. What is wrong with it?
quote: Ok, as much as I disapprove of the war and of president bush, I disagree with a lot of your points here.
Which illustrates that you are in agreement with what I have said. That you are supporting "our heroes" that are the ones carrying out the orders. You are the bottom layer of the pyramid. The outcome is the same.
It's not everyone in the military who are sadistic and rape kids, it just happens to be that a few bad apples managed to slaughter some 100,000 Iraqi's, abuse and molest prisoners in several prison camps holding hundreds of prisoners from Iraq, to Afghanistan, to Guatamano Bay.
What this really means, when I sift through the BS, that anything deplorable, sadistic, and evil, done by US forces, irrespective of their frequency and commonality, are the accountability of the people who commit them, and happen to get caught commiting them. Yet, anything deplorable, sadistic and evil done by any enemy, is the accountability of the race, country, demographic or organization to which they belong.
And their job is what? To rape little boys and girls? To turn citizens into a sex market for generals, sergants and soliders? To slaughter thousands of Iraqi's?
I've said it already? You are not supporting the war, right? Yet you are supporting those who are carrying out the war? So what are you doing? Supporting the war. If you were paying attention, I said, that though you are a part of an organization and do not support it's agenda, by working for them, you are doing just what you oppose, supporting the agenda.
did you realize you are indirectly supporting slave child labor by using a computer to post here? I have no role in this war, besides protesting it. I do not send money to the military or anything of the sort. I just keep the people risking their lives in my mind, and give them the respect they desearve. Shame on me.
Mate, you are indirectly supporting murder, rape, genocide, and when you cut out the hyprocisy, the duplicity and the BS, and face the reality of your role in this war, and accept it, I am going to respect you a tad more.
Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I suppose you forget that their former ruler killed hundreds of thousands of his own people. I suppose you forget that he had prisons for children who were tortured and forced to watch their parents tortured to solicit "confessions" from them? Probably even forget that he bribed many countries with vast untapped oilfields to get sanctions lifted. Sanctions that were applied when he ruthlessly attacked a neighboring country to rape and pillage it.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
There are more reasons for joining the army than this naive "our heores"" outlook you have:
1. You're stupid
2. You're unemployed/homeless
3. You're suicidal
4. You're depressed
5. You're a criminal
6. You think it's cool
7. You're a nationalist/jingoist
8. You're family and friends are in the army
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
[1. You're stupid
2. You're unemployed/homeless
3. You're suicidal
4. You're depressed
5. You're a criminal
6. You think it's cool
7. You're a nationalist/jingoist
8. You're family and friends are in the army
Originally posted by FredT
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
[1. You're stupid
2. You're unemployed/homeless
3. You're suicidal
4. You're depressed
5. You're a criminal
6. You think it's cool
7. You're a nationalist/jingoist
8. You're family and friends are in the army
Is this simply a misquided attempt at getting some points :shk: Really now, I feel sorry for you and your narrow view on this issue. Rest assured that your right to spew forth this asinine topic will be protected day in day out by the very HEROS that you decry.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Originally posted by Bikereddie
How many people would honestly want to do their job?
How many people would choose prison over the army? That's how many.
To me, my son will always be a hero..........
I feel sorry for you that your son is involved in the genocide of the Iraqi people. However, that should not perturb you, because your son will always he a hero. To put some perspective on this, so will the freedom fighting sons of many Iraqis. I am sure in some countries, the so calld 19 that gave their life in the WTC attacks, are heroes too.
That's a good trade you know. If I ever want to be a known as a hero, all I do is go to war, lose a limb or two, and get a medal for my heroism. ~ rolling eyes indeed.
Originally posted by Bikereddie
Well said Fred, cant agree with you more after the reply i got earlier.
The more i read this post, the more it winds me up.
I feel like my son has been ridiculed or insulted for doing his job.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I feel sorry for you that your son is involved in the genocide of the Iraqi people. However, that should not perturb you, because your son will always he a hero.
Is this the way of Hindu Dharma of Aum?
To proclaim that one's thoughts are "above" everyone else and to belittle them as ignorants?
Not everyone would agree with your singular view of the American military. Have there been crimes committed? Yes. Does that make ALL those serving in the military worthy of your labels of judgement? No. In fact, I was not aware that Dharma allowed judgement of others to such a harsh degree.
I suppose you forget that their former ruler killed hundreds of thousands of his own people. I suppose you forget that he had prisons for children who were tortured and forced to watch their parents tortured to solicit "confessions" from them? Probably even forget that he bribed many countries with vast untapped oilfields to get sanctions lifted. Sanctions that were applied when he ruthlessly attacked a neighboring country to rape and pillage it.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I disagree i think it's braver and thus more heroic to join willingly knowing full well you may be called apon by your country and asked to fight to defend it's way of life.
There is a fine line between stupid and brave. Then again, I think willingly choosing the army over prison, shows at least some intelligence. Simply, because there are people who want to be cannon fodder, does not mean they are brave and honourable.
There are more reasons for joining the army than this naive "our heores"" outlook you have:
1. You're stupid
2. You're unemployed/homeless
3. You're suicidal
4. You're depressed
5. You're a criminal
6. You think it's cool
7. You're a nationalist/jingoist
8. You're family and friends are in the army