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Auschwitz guard, 93, charged with 300,000 counts of accessory to murder

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posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

He's not the same person now that he was 70 years ago. We all change (well, most of us do). However, justice demands a trial. Innocent or guilty - either way a verdict must be read. I would think that a court would keep the entire situation in mind and that he wouldn't be going to jail.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: Swills

I seriously hope both George W Bush and Dick Cheney lose lots of sleep over this.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: LDragonFire

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'm pretty sure neither were guards at Auschwitz

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Or hanged. Or are they not hanging 90 yo's anymore?



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Firstly, I did not "accuse" you of anything. I made an observation. If the shoe pinches a bit because of it, that is not my problem. Perhaps you need to do some soul searching if you applied that to yourself in the negative.

What you provided, is not what I asked for. I asked for emperical evidences. The definitive list. Scientifically verified with date, cause, reason. You want to remember the names? So do I. What are they, and how did they die? Help me honor them.

Likewise, those that claim parts of "Confessions", clearly in error (like a 25 million claim), yet accept the rest of it, are not very reliable.

So, I'm sorry, your links do not qualify or meet my expectations to satisfy me. Others have dissected those "proofs" in books, research, etc. Far more than we can discuss on this forum, or paste thousands upon thousands of pages. I narrow it down to thus. Who had access to the typewriters after the fact? It is also ironic you bring up Himmler. Hitler called him a traitor in his last letter. But, I digress.

Now let me make myself clear. I'm neutral about this subject. I have seen evidences presented from BOTH sides of the isle. Some arguments, are absolutely devastating to eyewitness accounts given during statements and trials. Some statements made were absolutely preposterous, unbelievable, and violate known science. Likewise, others statements, are devastating to the Hitler was a misunderstood angel crowd, as they were labor/slave like camps. So, in my view, I think both sides are wrong.

I'm willing to state that the truth, is probably somewhere in the middle. Do you have an issue with neutrality?

See, I've accepted this fact: Clarity is the only reality.

So, let's prove it once, and for all. Support gathering of empirical evidences, from all sides involved. Chemical, biological, forensic, physics, testing, re-creation of the camps in 3d models using autocad and the blue prints, photo analysis for doctoring, etc, etc, etc.

Balls in your court. Anyone seeking truth should NOT be scared of what I just said. All sides should be happy to oblige, as it would put the issue to bed, once and for all.

Are you game? Or will you just blow it off, as a waste of time?

As for the rest. I'm still waiting for our lesson in pre-war history, namely 1933 and an event surrounding currency.
edit on 17-9-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I do appreciate your reference to my having a "wise ass". It is rare that I have the term "wise" attached to any of the various parts of myself.

I also could not help but notice your failure to respond to one of my statements. You know, the one about "all men being created equal".

But I guess you had your mind full, likely over full, with the efforts to attempt to discredit the rest of my reply to this post.

Really, that's alright, we all understand how trying "excessive thought" gets sometimes.
edit on 17-9-2014 by teamcommander because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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I'll say it again seeing as it's been bypassed...

What about Operation Paperclip???

Did those scientists, doctors and militia not "support" the Nazis???


Where is their trials?

If you think Mengele was bad, some of those scientists that were transferred to the US & the Soviets made the mad professor seem like a regular Dr.House...


& the Operation Paperclip elite still wanted the Nazis to win even when they were transferred...


Absolute scapegoat this man is...
Nothing more...
Nothing less!!!



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: yeahright

So the only war criminals are former Auschwitz guards?



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: guitarplayer
a reply to: Swills

300,000 in 30 days? That's 10,000 per day out of one camp seems a little high to me.



Yeah, it seems bloody stupid if you ask me..



Don't know how accurate those are but if so, the Germans were on Speed.


the source I used said that they could gas around 6000 a day and could cremate around 4,400 aday. That is a long way off from 10,000 aday that would be required to charge that this guard who spent one month and 300,000 deaths aty the camp.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:45 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I happen to believe that decent standards of western civilization demand that Oskar Groening stand trial for his role in the holocaust. If he was found guilty after a trial I wouldn't advocate for the death penalty even if it was available because at this point the value of the historical record he could offer is of great value , because so few people are left from that era.

a reply to: intrepid

Nah I would have saved the gallows for those who have committed atrocities in the Syrian Civil War.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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The guy is one day older than dirt. Prosecuting him is ridiculous.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 04:43 AM
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a reply to: Not Authorized

I provided the information you demanded. If you are to lazy to actually research in order to find the answers you seek, resulting in your current view on the holocaust, then that is your problem.

Ignoring the information does not mean the facts surrounding the holocaust are null and void.

Willful ignorance can be attributed as to how the holocaust occurred in the first place by all nations.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 04:45 AM
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a reply to: teamcommander

You should reread my post for your answers. Had you done that from the beginning we would not need this idiotic back and forth.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 04:47 AM
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originally posted by: Spruce
The guy is one day older than dirt. Prosecuting him is ridiculous.


Where would you place the cut off on these types of incidents then?


Removing the war crimes argument a lot of nations have long up to indefinite time frames in which to prosecute a person for murder.

Whether its 3 hours or 35 years later, the person could still be charged in most countries.


Why should there be a difference and why should there be an age restriction?



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 06:37 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: teamcommander



You should reread my post for your answers. Had you done that from the beginning we would not need this idiotic back and forth.


I must admit to not taking note of the entirity of your responce to my last reply. I quess, unlike most people, I just do not respond well to negativity.
However, it was my intent, which I thought quite obvious, to be all inclusive in my first reply as to the assumption of guilt of those who are in anyway involved with such practices.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 07:28 AM
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I just want to know why Jews working in any type of official capacity for the Nazis, are given a free pass and said to have been just doing what they could to survive, but anyone else acting in an official capacity is not to be given such. I understand they may very well have been in fear for their lives, but does it not stand to reason that your average German citizen/Nazi soldier( those who wanted nothing to do with this war at all) had also seen what is to be done to those who do not go with the program, would also have been in fear for their lives?

And I just want to make it very clear, I am not trying to question the Holocaust in any fashion what so ever, I just have a genuine question as to why the Jewish individuals involved in whatever official capacity they held during WWII are not to be tried.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 08:27 AM
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originally posted by: Spruce
The guy is one day older than dirt. Prosecuting him is ridiculous.
Time to move on. Better to forgive and forget would be a Christian thing to do.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Thank you for ignoring my concerns of said evidence, and recommendations for everyone on how to solve it once and for all.

I don't believe things anymore, just because i am told something. Truth doesn't fear investigation.

I have concerns, deep concerns, about said sources. Again, as i said, thousands of pages of books dig into the sources and credibility of your links far deeper than this method of communicating allows for.

I need empirical evidences. Gil Grissom taught me well. Always follow the evidences.

I still forgive it. With information today, it really is only a matter of time. Others are already recreating the camps in autocad and verifying testimony against those models.

Technology eventually will win out. It always does.

God bless and Good day.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 08:57 AM
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originally posted by: LDragonFire

So the only war criminals are former Auschwitz guards?


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Yes, that's exactly what I said. The only war criminals are former Auschwitz guards. Are there not enough Bush/Cheney bashing threads here to require you drag that into this one? Bush wasn't born until WWII was over, Cheney was less than a year old when Pearl Harbor was bombed.

You know every time someone attempts to equate the NAZIs of WWII with any US administration, you only succeed in diminishing the horror that the NAZIs unleashed upon the world. There is no comparison and to suggest otherwise only reveals your lack of comprehension about events, current and otherwise.

I get it. People don't like Bush and Cheney. Name any politician, likely a good half or more of the population will hate them for some reason. That doesn't make them war criminals, or any other kind of criminal. A charge and resultant guilty verdict before a court or tribunal makes someone a criminal. That's what's in process for this Auschwitz guard, and the final outcome is yet to be determined.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: yeahright

originally posted by: LDragonFire



So the only war criminals are former Auschwitz guards?




The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Yes, that's exactly what I said. The only war criminals are former Auschwitz guards. Are there not enough Bush/Cheney bashing threads here to require you drag that into this one? Bush wasn't born until WWII was over, Cheney was less than a year old when Pearl Harbor was bombed.



You know every time someone attempts to equate the NAZIs of WWII with any US administration, you only succeed in diminishing the horror that the NAZIs unleashed upon the world. There is no comparison and to suggest otherwise only reveals your lack of comprehension about events, current and otherwise.



I get it. People don't like Bush and Cheney. Name any politician, likely a good half or more of the population will hate them for some reason. That doesn't make them war criminals, or any other kind of criminal. A charge and resultant guilty verdict before a court or tribunal makes someone a criminal. That's what's in process for this Auschwitz guard, and the final outcome is yet to be determined.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


Could not agree with you more.
The main point I make is for ALL of those involved should be presented in court and given a fair trial.

Those found guilty, regardless of their degree of participation, should be given some degree of punishment for their willingness to carry out whatever parts they played in such activities. This should, of course, be delt out dependant upon their positions within said activities.




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