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Tensions With Russia Near Breaking Point

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posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph
I would have to agree with about 99% of what you said except Russia doesn't need Mariupol. Why would they want Mariupol?




posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

yes so what happens to Balmoral Castle??

does it become a museum or will they buy the Queen out??

curious.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
But like I have said ever since this started months ago, the brink of war is NOT upon us. As much as Putin fears being seen as weak, he cannot really escalate this into an all out war. He just can't do it and hope to come out better than when he went in. It is not possible.


I agree with you, that the brink of war is not upon us.

However, I'd like to point out two different facts... what Putin should do, and what he will do. I, like you, think he's going to do nothing ... in the end. He'll cave in, and hope to come out in a whole piece. He's wrong, of course.

If Putin, and the Russians in general, were smart. They'd escalate it ... and they'd escalate it NOW. Not tomorrow, not wait for winter ... but now. Why? Put it this way, the US has just voted the Russians out of the space program, at the same they have escalated sanctions against Russia, and literally robbed Russia of billions of dollars in Malta and Cyprus banks.

If Russia doesn't escalate, the war will be brought to them. It's as simple as that ... they have two roads to take, one is Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Endlessly trying to comply with sanctions and restrictions, and in the end, dead and mutilated. Or ... take this conflict to the next level. That means, shut down transporting US astronauts to the space station ... now, this minute. The US has no transport of it's own ... they'd have to seek out the Chinese, and Russia could "aid" the Chinese, behind the US's back ... finance problem solved.

This is just one scenario ...

The other is, Russia and China, must find a way to bring the war to the US. The US is desperately trying to wage war on all other continents, to avoid having it on their own soil ... but, that is exactly where it needs to be.

At this very point, Russia has no options but to go to war. It's only choice, is to chose where the war is to be fought ... it can chose, to have the US and NATO come and kill Russian civilians. Or they can be smart, and make sure that the US and it's allies will be too busy, and will start losing battles elsewhere. And eventually, bring the war to the US.

The US is capable of fighting it's wars, because the people of the US are sitting there ... safe from the war and suffering they cause to others.

And that is Russia's only chance ...

Another "very slight" possibility, is if Europe would aid Russia ... and go against the US. But that isn't going to happen, so Russia has no choice, but to escalate to war or die, like Saddam Hussein and his Iraq.

But just like Saddam Hussein, Putin will not escalate and he'll try his best to save his own hide ... while his people slowly collapse into chaos, destruction and endless inner wars against each other, like in Ukraine.


edit on 17/9/2014 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 05:13 PM
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They might attack China,,



but would need Poland's help,,

the Trident,,part.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 05:16 PM
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unless the Dragon isn't China,,but hey everyone knows the Dragon is China.


right?



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 11:56 PM
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originally posted by: AllSourceIntel
a reply to: DeadSeraph
I would have to agree with about 99% of what you said except Russia doesn't need Mariupol. Why would they want Mariupol?


Because it's a large port city in eastern Ukraine along a major highway through the border that offer the Russians quick access to the rest of the Ukraine via forces in Rostov-on-Don, as well as offering them another major port in the Sea of Azov (as well as economic factors). If the Russians didn't give a crap about Mariupol they wouldn't be reinforcing the separatists to such an extent there.

Mariupol is a crucial port city to not only Russian interests, but the separatists as well, as it would seem their ultimate goal is to break off everything from Kharkiv to the Russian border. Something the Ukrainians will never accept.

I think those who are sympathetic to the Russian cause here would feel much different if it was a neighboring country trying to foment dissent within THEIR borders and annex territory.

I can only imagine what the U.S populations response would be if the mexican government moved to fund and arm mexican separatists within Texas or another bordering state, and was using "ethnic mexicans" as an excuse to do so.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

why not,,, it worked in Chicago,,,



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 12:04 AM
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What about US gas exports? Are they likely to fit into the equation? I keep hearing about how much our capacity has improved and was curious to know what is in store for the cost of gas here. a reply to: MrSpad



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: georgezip

dont worry the House has a Wild Card in Ukraine,,



guess who.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 01:10 AM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

And what would be the US populations response if Russia was behind a coup in Mexico to install a Russian puppet-regime in Mexico ?

They probably would be shouting against the US government not to do anything about it because Mexico is a sovereign nation...uhm.


edit on 18-9-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Well I'm pretty sure they might protest loudly, but they probably wouldn't annex mexican territory, since Mexico poses no military threat to the U.S (similar to how the Ukraine poses no military threat to Russia).

I suspect this all goes back to the Bush era plans for a missile shield in europe. This was (at least in my opinion) the start of "the new cold war". It was an asinine plan then, and it's had disastrous consequences in the present.

Thats sort of what happens when you elect the son of a cold war era CIA chief to the U.S presidency, and a former KGB agent to the Russian presidency. I mean... Tom Clancy himself couldn't have written a better script for a new cold war.
edit on 18-9-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

Didn`t US almost invade Cuba in `63, which we now know would have seen the nuking of the US invasion force ?

I don`t think US would be sitting idle by if that happened, and the US media as usual would whip up the masses to support action as we have seen so many times before.

It`s not about Ukraine being a threat, it`s about US being a threat according to the Russians because of the neo-cons following the Grand Chessboard. So they want a buffer between them and NATO, because they know that Brzezinski his doctrine doesn`t allow a powerful force in Eurasia. So this about Russia being threatened in it`s existence and not about the Ukraine.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 09:27 AM
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So all the cry about Russia is getting hit hard by the sanctions is again Western media BS and some members.

Also "China not being behind Russia card" being played by some members is also a load of BS.

I wonder with all the sticks who are just vanishing into the air what`s still left for the anti-Russian crowd to hit with. My guess is, not much left besides calling Putin Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini.

Russia just shifts it focus to more domestic and eastwards :

Medvedev: Russia seeks alternative suppliers of high-tech equipment



“The government is already undertaking these supportive steps, not only in the financial sector. I have called on our trade representatives abroad to search for alternative suppliers of high-technology equipment,” Medvedev said.

The Russian prime minister has also stressed that Russia should build a “more rational balance” of its own production and imports. “Especially, if we talk about production and technologies ensuring the country’s defensive capacity,” he said.

On Thursday, the Russian prime minister announced that the Russian government is expected to draft a plan on import replacement in the industrial and agricultural sectors in early October.

en.itar-tass.com...

China and Russia getting along just fine and intensify their relations :

Russia, China negotiate over 30 joint projects worth over $100 bln — official



Russia and China are discussing over 30 joint projects worth over $100 billion with the frames of the mutual economic cooperation, Kirill Dmitriev, the CEO of the Russian Direct Investment Fund, said on Friday.

“We have set up an intergovernmental Russian-Chinese commission and recently discussed over 30 projects worth over $100 billion,” Dmitriev said addressing the International Investment Forum Sochi-2014.

The bilateral investment commission comprising both private and state-run companies gathered for its very first session in China last week.

en.itar-tass.com...

And Russian economy not getting hit so hard by sanctions after all :

Western sanctions have little effect on Russia — Ukrainian experts



Western sanctions on Russia have not proven to be as effective as expected, participants in a Ukrainian roundtable meeting on sanctions against Russia said on Friday.

According to Yaroslav Zhalilo, deputy director of the National Institute of Strategic Research, Russia has not been very sensitive to the economic sanctions imposed on it.

en.itar-tass.com...



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 09:57 AM
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Get a load of this, Russia giving the west a taste of their own medicine.




Russia has said the conduct of the Scottish referendum "did not meet international standards", with its observers complaining the count took place in rooms that were too big and that the procedure was badly flawed.

In an apparent attempt to mirror persistent western criticism of Russia's own elections, Igor Borisov – an accredited observer – said the poll failed to meet basic international norms.


www.theguardian.com...


edit on 19-9-2014 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-9-2014 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

It looks like it's all a matter of which media source you look at. According to the wall street journal, Medvedev acknowledges that sanctions are taking their toll on the Russian economy.




MOSCOW—Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev acknowledged that Western sanctions against Russia are taking a toll on the economy, the starkest admission yet by the country's leadership.

Speaking at a government meeting Thursday that approved a largely balanced budget for the next three years, Mr. Medvedev said it had been drawn up "in such difficult conditions, when the slowing of our economy coincided with the sanctions imposed against some sectors of our economy."

He added that the sanctions, imposed over Russia's role in the conflict in Ukraine, are "testing Russia."


online.wsj.com...
edit on 19-9-2014 by DAZ21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: DAZ21

Of course it hurts the Russians, but not as bad as they would like us to let believe.

Ordinary Russians also know it, and the transition will take some time, but they see opportunities for Russians because of more domestic production and by so more labour. It`s the EU who gets hurt by not getting the bushiness back they had from exporting to the Russian Federation.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: DeadSeraph

And what would be the US populations response if Russia was behind a coup in Mexico to install a Russian puppet-regime in Mexico ?

They probably would be shouting against the US government not to do anything about it because Mexico is a sovereign nation...uhm.



A poor Mexican state a puppet of a Russia who has nothing to offer it? At most some light santions and that would be it for the Mexican economy and any Russian puppet state. The US would not be grabbing parts of Mexica and starting an armes revolt. That would be silly.



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad
Almost as silly as it would be to send arms to the cartel. Oh yeah......



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad

So why did the US wanting to invade a poor Cuba in the 60s than ?

Wouldn`t that have been just as silly ?



posted on Sep, 19 2014 @ 06:13 PM
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Oops...

So Russia doesn`t want the Eastern Ukraine, and another stick just went...


Glad I`m not an anti-Russian, you have no argument left to defend your case anymore :



"We are unable to join the Russian Federation directly, so we will build our own country," he said.

Source



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