The trend continues in August; The World is Warming as NASA says hottest on record

a reply to: Chickensalad

Whatever. All of the points are relevant to the discussion at hand. Average global temperatures have not fluctuated as wildly as predicted and although you my think it unnecessary, the entire AGW argument is about carbon taxation and wealth transfer. It will accomplish absolutely zero in overall CO2 reductions and Al Gore was the main proponent of this flawed science. 130 years of cherry picked data does not even begin to match the millions of years od empirical data already gleaned from the fossil record. Climate change is as natural as breathing and we can do nothing to stop it.

If we're attacking sources then most of you 'proponents' wont have a leg to stand on.
But if we want to debate the FACTS then by all means lets go.

But again I can pull various links like this up from soo many trusted sources...but all your going to do is nit-pick until it serves your purpose.

Do some research outside of your own bubble and you may come away scratching your head.

a reply to: Cynic

You may be misunderstanding my point.

In fact you just gave me a synopsis of my own argument

a reply to: Chickensalad
Those facts are in direct contradiction to Big Al's Inconvenient Hogswallow. The fact is that the IPCC think tank was caught with their collective pants down in fudging their data. The fact that the AGW proponents fail to understand that or are too proud to look it up serves to prove that they are totally wrong in pushing the IPCC agenda. Climate change is real but natural and AGW is nothing but a touchy feel good tax grab.

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: WhiteAlice

Ok let's just agree to disagree?

So the climate is changing? Why should we be concerned? It might be changing for the better...

Like you already stated, when climate was different, forests existed where deserts now exist or vice versa.

So the climate changes? The world adapts to the new climate, such is life.

In the end we will have to adapt either way man made or natural.

That's the problem. You see, the world can go through these changes, but these extreme changes that will occur, we, mankind, cannot survive. When such drastic climate changes occur, such as a forest where there once was a desert, man wasn't here and man won't be here after either. Sorry to be a doommonger, but it is what it is. Sure, life on this planet will survive, but we won't. We are already seeing the evidence as the ocean's die off, as they warm, and acidify. Pay attention to the mass fish die offs occurring all over the planet. It's alarming and if you read between the lines, it has quite a story to tell.

Look I know what you're trying to say and yes it would be hard to survive in sudden change. But did we not also survive an ice age? I remember hearing the Neanderthals couldn't hack it but humans did.

We are a rather resilient species.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't try to find a way of stopping devastating climate change, what I'm saying is there's no stopping it because it's natural, and it will happen whether we want it to or not.

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: Chickensalad
Those facts are in direct contradiction to Big Al's Inconvenient Hogswallow. The fact is that the IPCC think tank was caught with their collective pants down in fudging their data. The fact that the AGW proponents fail to understand that or are too proud to look it up serves to prove that they are totally wrong in pushing the IPCC agenda. Climate change is real but natural and AGW is nothing but a touchy feel good tax grab.

But "Big Al" is just one pundit...he's easily cancelled out by, oh Sean Hannity who has a much larger following and daily TV and radio shows reaching millions. He is also funded by big oil.

The IPCC really just takes all the data and research from scientific papers, groups and organizations from around the world to come up with their recommendations and reports. They don't drive the agenda. It's not an IPCC agenda.

And the Tax Grab. We're being taxed to death. If you take out emotion and look at it logically. If we all drove electric cars, had solar power on our houses and more trees in our on our property, used less gas... the carbon tax would be off set by all the other taxes we wouldn't be paying any more. I don't want a carbon Tax but I'm just saying we would actually have less taxes. I could be wrong but it's a good discussion point.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: DAZ21

I'm quite certain that there is much being done. Why do you think that all Americans are required to have health insurance today? (Black Death). Why do you think Monsanto is genetically modifying just about every crop in existence to be extremely drought resistant? (Great Famine). This is why and it does matter.

You make some great points Alice, and with this paragraph here, I believe that the government knows something is up and I believe these changes you mention, as well as government stockpiling, militarization of local law enforcement, homeland security and FEMA build ups, and many other things, such as government spending "like there's no tomorrow," point to that. I think it has to do with methane gas. They may have known something is up ever since a lake in Cameroon in the mid-1980's plumed the gas and killed 2,000 people. This was the second time in just a couple of years, but the first natural gas leak didn't kill off so many folks. This second leak got attention. Why did methane suddenly bubble up and plume into the air killing off many people, even a couple of kilometers inland from the lake? This was the first time something like that had happened (that man knew about anyways) and now look around, it's happening all over the place. At that time, methane levels were slowly rising up until 1997...the methane release leveled off for 10 years until 2007 when it began skyrocketing again. It was a mystery at the time and no one knew why it leveled off. They attributed it to changes in aquaculture (rice) in Asian nations. Maybe the government found a way to slow down the process (after discovering there was one in the first place with the Cameroon lake incident), but then in 2007 something triggered it again and this time around, it's rising faster than at any other time. Just some of my thoughts on it.

a reply to: Cynic

I think you may be arguing with yourself on this one. Not really sure what your actual point is.

I concede that climate change happens. But the argument for global warming is based off of flawed and corrupted data. Its a farce being pushed on the populous for more control over our global infrastructure.

What the actual outcome of our current climate change may be, I dont know. Nobody can really say until true and untampered data is presented. Even then we have to concede to the fact that its STILL not completely predictable.

originally posted by: nanbei
Global warming has absolutelly nothing to do with taxes. The fact is that we already passed the tipping point and things will only get worse and worse no matter what we do! Global warming is now in a phasis when human contribuition is not the the only factor anymore, giving that positive feedback mechanisms exponentially increase the warming effect. And it will get terribly worse when the rise in temperatures and the warming of sea-bed in the Arctic leads to the frozen water crystals in the sediment to break down, allowing methane trapped inside them to escape. According to climatologist Dr. Jason Box, professor of glaciology at the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland, if even a portion of the carbon moves into the atmosphere, “we’re f’d.”

Exactly!

a reply to: Chickensalad

Fair enough.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
a reply to: Rezlooper

This was about the coldest summer we've ever had here in the Midwest USA. Are you sure you aren't trying a little too hard to keep your belief going?

Does the Midwest represent the World?

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: nanbei
Global warming has absolutelly nothing to do with taxes. The fact is that we already passed the tipping point and things will only get worse and worse no matter what we do! Global warming is now in a phasis when human contribuition is not the the only factor anymore, giving that positive feedback mechanisms exponentially increase the warming effect. And it will get terribly worse when the rise in temperatures and the warming of sea-bed in the Arctic leads to the frozen water crystals in the sediment to break down, allowing methane trapped inside them to escape. According to climatologist Dr. Jason Box, professor of glaciology at the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland, if even a portion of the carbon moves into the atmosphere, “we’re f’d.”

Exactly!

Then kindly explain why there is a push for carbon TAXation.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: Rezlooper

I'm in Socal and the temperature have been fairly mild. It's very hot now but September is often our hottest month.

What has changed dramatically this year is the amount of humidity. 20 years ago we didn't get anything over 15% during the summer. In the last 10 years, we've been getting high humidity during june quite a bit. This year the humidity is constant and high - it's miserable. This is our fire season and we're looking at thunder storms in SOCAL on thursday.

You have to see a longer view then "today in my backyard, I don't see no global warming".

Shout Out to MomOf3... sorry about your garden (sigh....)

As temperatures rise, so will humidity. We can see that will all the rainfall. There are a dozen or more places on the globe as we speak that are flooding immensely. We will also see that again this winter with massive snow amounts. In my town we shattered our yearly snowfall record last winter with 120 inches. We'll get that again if not more this winter. There's been a huge increase in moisture in the atmosphere.

EDIT to ADD: Also, to add to this, have you noticed how there are so many Pacific hurricanes over the past few years and very little action in the Atlantic. You are feeling the effects of the change as there is more humidity on that side, which is also resulting in these more frequent and intense hurricanes...the Baja just experienced the worst storm they ever had and now the storm is moving into the southwest right on the heels of Norbert. Expect some major flooding again.

Yes, the climate is changing... for better or worse.

So now what ?


The planet will continue to warm up until it reaches a peak and then plummets into the next glaciation.

And THAT, my dear friends, is when we are really going to be royally screwed.

Quite frankly, we should be on our knees thanking the global warming gawds for their generosity in allowing us to ride this interglacial gravy train for as long as we have.

That free ride is slowly coming to an end.

originally posted by: Chickensalad
Yes. They are lying.

Here, take your pick. Ill wait...
Data Manipulation

Take your own pick and debate it here.

Linking to a Google search is the epitome of laziness and indicative of your disregard for honest debate and discussion.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: Chickensalad

Because I don't have to - you do it yourself by not providing any support for your 'opinions'.

Precisely this.

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: Rezlooper
Are you for real Rez? These same people were yammering about an Ice Age in the 1970's Al did a number on his faithful sheep and after the IPCC was caught and exposed for fudging numbers to meet their theory he is decidedly absent from the discussion. 130 years of data does not trump untold eons of empirical data readily available. The climate is changing, no argument there but to think man is the sole factor is just plain stunned. It is a natural occurrence and simply adding more taxes to a necessary ecological item - yes, carbon - is the real Inconvenient Truth.

Where did I say anything about the cause? And where did I ever say anything about a tax? After nearly two years of making these threads and posts, where have I ever said I was in favor of a tax. I've only laid out the evidence as I've found it that we are experiencing some global warming (climate change), regardless of the cause or the solution. I've got my own opinions on the causes, which have to do with both natural and man made contributions. And also, for those who know my posts, I am more focused on methane gas as the main culprit in this warming rather than carbon. But, for some reason people oversee that in my threads and label me as a man made carbon and tax crusader for climate change. You've got me all wrong. I'm even a registered Republican for crying out loud. Please, understand, my fight is with methane and do I think man caused this sudden release, somewhat, but none of that matters now...the fact is it is releasing at dangerous levels and today, that release is mostly natural. It's not the cows! It's the melting hydrates, melting permafrost, volcanoes and fractures in the crust, and wetlands. For me, the most significant man made contribution is Fracking. Over 400,000 North American wells alone that are left abandoned and possibly leaking, how can it not be. Not to mention the fugitive emissions as the gas is being extracted.

originally posted by: Cynic
a reply to: Rezlooper
Are you for real Rez? These same people were yammering about an Ice Age in the 1970's Al did a number on his faithful sheep and after the IPCC was caught and exposed for fudging numbers to meet their theory he is decidedly absent from the discussion. 130 years of data does not trump untold eons of empirical data readily available. The climate is changing, no argument there but to think man is the sole factor is just plain stunned. It is a natural occurrence and simply adding more taxes to a necessary ecological item - yes, carbon - is the real Inconvenient Truth.

Where did I say anything about the cause? And where did I ever say anything about a tax? After nearly two years of making these threads and posts, where have I ever said I was in favor of a tax. I've only laid out the evidence as I've found it that we are experiencing some global warming (climate change), regardless of the cause or the solution. I've got my own opinions on the causes, which have to do with both natural and man made contributions. And also, for those who know my posts, I am more focused on methane gas as the main culprit in this warming rather than carbon. But, for some reason people oversee that in my threads and label me as a man made carbon and tax crusader for climate change. You've got me all wrong. I'm even a registered Republican for crying out loud. Please, understand, my fight is with methane and do I think man caused this sudden release, somewhat, but none of that matters now...the fact is it is releasing at dangerous levels and today, that release is mostly natural. It's not the cows! It's the melting hydrates, melting permafrost, volcanoes and fractures in the crust, and wetlands. For me, the most significant man made contribution is Fracking. Over 400,000 North American wells alone that are left abandoned and possibly leaking, how can it not be. Not to mention the fugitive emissions as the gas is being extracted.

originally posted by: Bilk22

Leo vs. science: vanishing evidence for climate change

This article is trash written by anti-AGW shills who are literally paid to do this stuff.

Please see this post discussing that article.

originally posted by: Cynic
Then kindly explain why there is a push for carbon TAXation.

Why are some people stuck up on some tax which hasn't even manifested in most of the world?

Ignoring science because of political reasons is stupid.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rezlooper

I have been informed that NASA is not a reliable source for temperature information.
Ask the AGW crowd for verification. (I guess unless their views fit in with AGW, then I am sure there data is just fine)

I found out when NASA announced that 1934 was the hottest year on record.

1934 was supposedly the hottest year in the United States of America, not the world. I've even told you - specifically - this in several posts in now multiple threads.

Is there something more to this or what?