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Will an independant Scotland be part of NATO, UN treatise. Have a Military?

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posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 09:45 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: grainofsand
You and the rest here are dreaming if you think for one minute we will give up one inch of Scottish soil to England or any other foreign country for that matter...It will be defended to the hilt, with much blood shed.


Just suppose for a moment that some nation wanted to take some of the soil in Scotland.... how do you propose you stop them??

Shout at them and lift your kilts?

If you knew anything about history you would know that a countries boundaries are defined by two main factors.

1. The ability of it's military to defend its borders
2. The ability to negotiate as part of a union or treaty

Both of these points Scotland will NOT have access to post independents.

Korg.




posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific



Wise nations fight on other's soil.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: Korg Trinity





Perhaps this is because there are more people in here with sense to speak up against the preposterous Idea of holding a referendum on something based upon emotion as opposed to raw hard facts!


A bunch of ne'er do wells and ill wishers more like. I would take my heart over my head any day. The future might be difficult but it also is bright. Tomorrow will decide...



Not at all... we are actually attempting to tell you, you are on the cusp of a calamity. This is an act of friendship!

If I wished Scotland harm then I would be saying vote yes!

Korg.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 09:58 AM
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originally posted by: Fromabove
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Korg, would I be right in saying that you're a dissatisfied Brit? As an Irishman part of me would love to see a good chunk of the Isle fall off. But to tell you the truth either way it won't matter. Many divorced couples learn to share the kids and get along.

The Brits took upon themselves too much power leaving the Scot minority scraps. So at best they will go it their own way, and if not the Brits will have to learn to play nice and share their toys.

Even now there is talk of power sharing with the Scots.


My personal feelings don't come into it.

I just find it astonishing that the Scottish don't know what they are about to walk into and appear to think that the English are against it because of ill feelings as opposed to pointing out the reality.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: Korg Trinity
Agreed there, I want a fairer new Union for us all to come out of a no vote.

The entire continuing UK establishment, from politicians to permanent civil service, and every single 'official' will be working to screw the very best deal for the UK regardless of the disadvantages for a foreign Scotland.
It will not be pretty, especially with a conservative/tory majority in Westminster running things.
It absolutely will not be 'friendly' in any diplomacy or political international negotiations after a yes vote, that is certain.
Do so at your own risk Scots, think you've been shafted while in the Union? You aint seen nothing yet.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:02 AM
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To all the Scots voting. I wish you well. Don't let the fear-mongers scare you out of a nation of your own. William Wallace would be proud of you either way the vote goes.

The only thing that is going to change if yes wins out is that you will no longer have a landlord to tell you what you can and cannot do in your own house.


If I were a Scot my vote would be yes. We Americans cast our vote over 200 years ago. The Brits didn't take it well. I am glad they have seen the error of their ways and are at least letting you decide your own destiny.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Fromabove
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Korg, would I be right in saying that you're a dissatisfied Brit? As an Irishman part of me would love to see a good chunk of the Isle fall off. But to tell you the truth either way it won't matter. Many divorced couples learn to share the kids and get along.

The Brits took upon themselves too much power leaving the Scot minority scraps. So at best they will go it their own way, and if not the Brits will have to learn to play nice and share their toys.

Even now there is talk of power sharing with the Scots.


My personal feelings don't come into it.

I just find it astonishing that the Scottish don't know what they are about to walk into and appear to think that the English are against it because of ill feelings as opposed to pointing out the reality.



I think they understand. No decision like this comes easy. It could have been different if London had afforded them their due respect. I know they said they'll allow them more autonomy, but the dye is already cast. And I believe we will see an independent Scotland. But you can all still be friends after the vote and work together.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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originally posted by: Fromabove

To all the Scots voting. I wish you well. Don't let the fear-mongers scare you out of a nation of your own. William Wallace would be proud of you either way the vote goes.

The only thing that is going to change if yes wins out is that you will no longer have a landlord to tell you what you can and cannot do in your own house.


If I were a Scot my vote would be yes. We Americans cast our vote over 200 years ago. The Brits didn't take it well. I am glad they have seen the error of their ways and are at least letting you decide your own destiny.


Oh dear!

You see this whole yes campaign is all about emotions.....

I urge you to stop and look at the facts.... Look before you Leap!

That glass of clear liquid might look like it would be refreshing to drink, I'm going to ignore those pompous idiots telling me it's not water.... let's drink it.... OH SH*T IT WAS ACID!!!!!

Korg.


edit on 17-9-2014 by Korg Trinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: Fromabove
The only thing that is going to change if yes wins out is that you will no longer have a landlord to tell you what you can and cannot do in your own house.

Replaced with a more powerful and internationally well connected neighbour which will screw the best deal for itself, as it does with any foreign nation.
If Scotland votes to leave then I expect my country's government to treat them poorly in all negotiations, the UK does have a record sheet for that as long as your arm - just no politicians are being public about it until after the vote.

Scaremongering, call it that if you like, I'm not scared as I live in the more powerful UK, and I'm only being realistic about the negotiation environment after a yes vote. It will be harsh.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: Fromabove

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Fromabove
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Korg, would I be right in saying that you're a dissatisfied Brit? As an Irishman part of me would love to see a good chunk of the Isle fall off. But to tell you the truth either way it won't matter. Many divorced couples learn to share the kids and get along.

The Brits took upon themselves too much power leaving the Scot minority scraps. So at best they will go it their own way, and if not the Brits will have to learn to play nice and share their toys.

Even now there is talk of power sharing with the Scots.


My personal feelings don't come into it.

I just find it astonishing that the Scottish don't know what they are about to walk into and appear to think that the English are against it because of ill feelings as opposed to pointing out the reality.



I think they understand. No decision like this comes easy. It could have been different if London had afforded them their due respect. I know they said they'll allow them more autonomy, but the dye is already cast. And I believe we will see an independent Scotland. But you can all still be friends after the vote and work together.


First Rule of civilization... Look after your own....

If you think Scotland would be treated any differently than any other neighboring foreign nation after independents then you would be wrong!

Korg.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
That's 5 of you in here having a go at me..
5-1....What is it, Do you all feel more secure in a group?... safety in Numbers maybe?... Hunting in Packs now.?

Two "members" are now following me from thread to thread like a couple of prepubecent groupies after One Direction.

Must have ruffled a few feathers with the mention of Oil..or the lack of it for that matter...

Tick Tock, Tick Tock...


Perhaps this is because there are more people in here with sense to speak up against the preposterous Idea of holding a referendum on something based upon emotion as opposed to raw hard facts!

Here are a few FACTS that you may want to mull over.

FACT.... If Independent NO financial support from the rest of the UK PERIOD.
FACT.... No Financial plan is in place for Scotland's independent future.
FACT.... 9 out of 10 people in Scotland are on State paid benefits of one description or another.
FACT.... An independent Scotland would no longer have access to the NHS.
FACT.... Scotland would have to take it's share of the national debt £100 billion.
FACT.... Scotland will not be able to keep the pound Sterling as it's currency
FACT.... Scotland at present has no current Currency Plans post independents
FACT.... Property Prices will crash in Scotland post independent, leaving millions with negative equity
FACT.... Border control restriction on immigration as a truly Independent Scotland would not be part of the EU
FACT.... Big businesses and banks have already stood up and said they will leave Scotland on a yes verdict

How can you honestly vote yes under those conditions?

Korg.

Fact is most of those facts are in your head or you are just regurgitating the same pro Union scary stories..
1. we wont need financial support from rUK
2.Yes it is.
3.9 out of 10 ??? ok i'll go with it for the moment. Maybe if the minimum wage was higher 9 out of 10 people wouldn't need government monthly bailouts outs to pay the bills...I'm no expert but i guess the Welfare bill for the UK would be higher per head than Scotland...you can rent a 2 bed house here for less than £70...in London you couldn't rent a 3'x3' bin shed for that.
4, BS...The NHS will be still in the hands of the people here in Scotland..Englands NHS looks like it wont last a decade.
5. And that we will...8%, but remember we also get 8% of all UK assets both here and abroad. if Oil prices stay as around the hundred a barrel we could in theory wipe out £100 million out in 7/8 years... your grandchildren will still be paying your share (£1.3 Trillion) off.
6.Yes we will. rUK will be in a worse state than us if we dont share a currency....Ireland shared a currency for decades after independence. there was a reason for that...The reasons are clear.
7.see above
8. Property value rise and fall all the time...no more so than these last 6 years under Westminster rule
9. and the borders are secure just now... Westminster and England in particular couldn't keep hens out of a close
10.The only Banks that will be leaving Scotland after a independence vote are Foodbanks...if big Business wants to leave, Bigger Business will be more than willing to fill the gap...there will be plenty big money men and women all over the world sitting counting their cash right now watching this very closely..

And that's what i think of your so called FACTS...

edit on 17-9-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: Korg Trinity
You post is so full of errors its hard to know where to start.
Lets start with the fact that we already have our own nhs.
Also no one who actually knows anything about the issue thinks Scotland cant use sterling the only issue if there is a currency union.
Also the national debt is a hell of a lot more than 100 billion.
I don't think you post actually has a single fact right.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
That's 5 of you in here having a go at me..
5-1....What is it, Do you all feel more secure in a group?... safety in Numbers maybe?... Hunting in Packs now.?

Two "members" are now following me from thread to thread like a couple of prepubecent groupies after One Direction.

Must have ruffled a few feathers with the mention of Oil..or the lack of it for that matter...

Tick Tock, Tick Tock...


Perhaps this is because there are more people in here with sense to speak up against the preposterous Idea of holding a referendum on something based upon emotion as opposed to raw hard facts!

Here are a few FACTS that you may want to mull over.

FACT.... If Independent NO financial support from the rest of the UK PERIOD.
FACT.... No Financial plan is in place for Scotland's independent future.
FACT.... 9 out of 10 people in Scotland are on State paid benefits of one description or another.
FACT.... An independent Scotland would no longer have access to the NHS.
FACT.... Scotland would have to take it's share of the national debt £100 billion.
FACT.... Scotland will not be able to keep the pound Sterling as it's currency
FACT.... Scotland at present has no current Currency Plans post independents
FACT.... Property Prices will crash in Scotland post independent, leaving millions with negative equity
FACT.... Border control restriction on immigration as a truly Independent Scotland would not be part of the EU
FACT.... Big businesses and banks have already stood up and said they will leave Scotland on a yes verdict

How can you honestly vote yes under those conditions?

Korg.

Fact is most of those facts are in your head or you are just regurgitating the same pro Union scary stories..
1. we wont need financial support from rUK
2.Yes it is.
3.9 out of 10 ??? ok i'll go with it for the moment. Maybe if the minimum wage was higher 9 out of 10 people wouldn't need government monthly bailouts outs to pay the bills...I'm no expert but i guess the Welfare bill for the UK would be higher per head than Scotland...you can rent a 2 bed house here for less than £70...in London you couldn't rent a 3'x3' bin shed for that.
4, BS...The NHS will be still in the hands of the people here in Scotland..Englands NHS looks like it wont last a decade.
5. And that we will...8%, but remember we also get 8% of all UK assets both here and abroad. if Oil prices stay as around the hundred a barrel we could in theory wipe out £100 million out in 7/8 years... your grandchildren will still be paying your share (£1.3 Trillion) off.
6.Yes we will. rUK will be in a worse state than us if we dont share a currency....Ireland shared a currency for decades after independence. there was a reason for that...The reasons are clear.
7.see above
8. Property value rise and fall all the time...no more so than these last 6 years under Westminster rule
9. and the borders are secure just now... Westminster and England in particular couldn't keep hens out of a close
10.The only Banks that will be leaving Scotland after a independence vote are Foodbanks...if big Business wants to leave, Bigger Business will fill more than willing to fill the gap...there will be plenty big money men and women all over the world sitting counting their cash right now watching this very closely..

And that's what i think of your so called FACTS...


I am absolutely flabbergasted that you could think the above....

If you and all the other yes people think that then you are all going to the cliffs like lemmings! I urge you please stop and take the time to even Google any of the FACTS I pointed out... they are all accurate!

Don't Drink that Glass of Clear LIQUID!

Korg.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand
You seem to have areal bitterness about Scots wanting to be independent. I would suggest a nice cup of tea (or something stronger) and a wee sit down. Then realise it is not about you. The misplaced anger of many posters says a hell of a lot about how successive governments have been successful with divide and rule.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:35 AM
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originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
That's 5 of you in here having a go at me..
5-1....What is it, Do you all feel more secure in a group?... safety in Numbers maybe?... Hunting in Packs now.?

Two "members" are now following me from thread to thread like a couple of prepubecent groupies after One Direction.

Must have ruffled a few feathers with the mention of Oil..or the lack of it for that matter...

Tick Tock, Tick Tock...


Perhaps this is because there are more people in here with sense to speak up against the preposterous Idea of holding a referendum on something based upon emotion as opposed to raw hard facts!

Here are a few FACTS that you may want to mull over.

FACT.... If Independent NO financial support from the rest of the UK PERIOD.
FACT.... No Financial plan is in place for Scotland's independent future.
FACT.... 9 out of 10 people in Scotland are on State paid benefits of one description or another.
FACT.... An independent Scotland would no longer have access to the NHS.
FACT.... Scotland would have to take it's share of the national debt £100 billion.
FACT.... Scotland will not be able to keep the pound Sterling as it's currency
FACT.... Scotland at present has no current Currency Plans post independents
FACT.... Property Prices will crash in Scotland post independent, leaving millions with negative equity
FACT.... Border control restriction on immigration as a truly Independent Scotland would not be part of the EU
FACT.... Big businesses and banks have already stood up and said they will leave Scotland on a yes verdict

How can you honestly vote yes under those conditions?

Korg.

Fact is most of those facts are in your head or you are just regurgitating the same pro Union scary stories..
1. we wont need financial support from rUK
2.Yes it is.
3.9 out of 10 ??? ok i'll go with it for the moment. Maybe if the minimum wage was higher 9 out of 10 people wouldn't need government monthly bailouts outs to pay the bills...I'm no expert but i guess the Welfare bill for the UK would be higher per head than Scotland...you can rent a 2 bed house here for less than £70...in London you couldn't rent a 3'x3' bin shed for that.
4, BS...The NHS will be still in the hands of the people here in Scotland..Englands NHS looks like it wont last a decade.
5. And that we will...8%, but remember we also get 8% of all UK assets both here and abroad. if Oil prices stay as around the hundred a barrel we could in theory wipe out £100 million out in 7/8 years... your grandchildren will still be paying your share (£1.3 Trillion) off.
6.Yes we will. rUK will be in a worse state than us if we dont share a currency....Ireland shared a currency for decades after independence. there was a reason for that...The reasons are clear.
7.see above
8. Property value rise and fall all the time...no more so than these last 6 years under Westminster rule
9. and the borders are secure just now... Westminster and England in particular couldn't keep hens out of a close
10.The only Banks that will be leaving Scotland after a independence vote are Foodbanks...if big Business wants to leave, Bigger Business will fill more than willing to fill the gap...there will be plenty big money men and women all over the world sitting counting their cash right now watching this very closely..

And that's what i think of your so called FACTS...


I am absolutely flabbergasted that you could think the above....

If you and all the other yes people think that then you are all going to the cliffs like lemmings! I urge you please stop and take the time to even Google any of the FACTS I pointed out... they are all accurate!

Don't Drink that Glass of Clear LIQUID!

Korg.

You came here with your so called Facts... now back them up with cold hard facts.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:38 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Korg Trinity
You post is so full of errors its hard to know where to start.
Lets start with the fact that we already have our own nhs.
Also no one who actually knows anything about the issue thinks Scotland cant use sterling the only issue if there is a currency union.
Also the national debt is a hell of a lot more than 100 billion.
I don't think you post actually has a single fact right.



O.k.

Let's deal with these points

1. You have a NHS that is funded by the UK...... Post Independents you have a NHS funded by 92% less funds!

2. The official position of the UK is we will not allow you to use Sterling post independents. If you were to use Sterling unofficially then you would still need an official currency of your own, leading to a two tier economy... which would be a disaster.

3. No the UK national debt is over 1 trillion. Scotland's Share of the national debt is circa 100 billion. If Scotland defaulted then it would be Greece with no one to bail you out!

I am a person of distinction but appreciate here I am just an anonymous poster, so don't take my word for it, I urge you to research for yourself. But I assure you my facts are correct.

Korg.


edit on 17-9-2014 by Korg Trinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: Korg Trinity
I think your facts are only accurate in daily mail land. Here in reality Scotland is modern economy with educated workforce and huge natural resources. I think we will manage just fine.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: Korg Trinity
Do you really think that the rest if the UK funds the Scottish nhs? Have a think about it (hint population)
Sterling is fully tradable currency we don't need anyone's permission.
Debt share is based on share of assets.
I am more than familiar with facts of the Indy debate and yours aren't.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Korg Trinity
You post is so full of errors its hard to know where to start.
Lets start with the fact that we already have our own nhs.
Also no one who actually knows anything about the issue thinks Scotland cant use sterling the only issue if there is a currency union.
Also the national debt is a hell of a lot more than 100 billion.
I don't think you post actually has a single fact right.




I am a person of distinction but appreciate here I am just an anonymous poster, so don't take my word for it, I urge you to research for yourself. But I assure you my facts are correct.

Korg.


Well i'm just a wee workin class man man fae the street and i can a assure you your "Facts"? are diarrhea.
edit on 17-9-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol
Who the actual feck refers to themself as a person of distinction?




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