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I've. Had. It. With. Feminism. (Part One - The Tattoo)

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posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 12:49 AM
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It is sort of like how there was this phase about genetically superior people, or certain races being inferior or superior, when it turned out that everyone is basically the same. This just reminds me of that, with one gender believing they're superior. Certainly there are differences, but these cannot really be quantified into determining who is superior overall, because one sex is not superior. Women perform better overall where certain things are concerned and vice-versa, but this is not something that holds true in all instances. Didn't feminism used to be about achieving equality for women? I'm pretty sure this has been achieved, at least for all intents and purposes. What you describe makes it sound sort of like these women believe they are truly superior to men, which is absurd considering no sex is superior. It just seems as bad as the racially driven superiority complex that existed on a large scale many decades ago. I can just see the fascist state these women would create, lol.
edit on 9/16/14 by JiggyPotamus because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck




I wonder how far back that would put them? Is there some image or role are they trying to create, or just trying to take over the role of the male?


Victim. Which is it's own special irony the more you learn about them.

I get the impression a large number of these women don't actually experience any real oppression but still want the attention and automatic win in the argument. You don't want to argue against someone who call themselves a feminist because it makes you look like a douche since so many people are unaware what the movement has devolved into.

If you feel oppressed or raped because a guy holds open a door or offers to buy you a drink you don't have any real problems to compare these trivialities against.

I'm seeing a few different breeds of this becoming more common. The sexual orientation crowd that want to be referred to by the correct pronouns (which is fine) but can't agree on what those are in different cases and think anyone who is 'cis' (identifies as the gender they were born with so 95% of the population) are oppressing them. Fat people (especially women) who feel that anyone who isn't obese is an oppressor and insist that they are medically healthy. Social Justice Warriors who basically think everyone is bad unless you have a litany of things that are out of the norm (color, gender, whatever), ultra feminists who think that there is some plot to destroy women's freedoms and think everything is oppression and the world and most people are out to get them. Then there's this weird combination of all of these groups that at times seem self loathing (or at least more so than the others) for having any form of privilege.

If you really think that every straight white male is bad and hates everyone except for other straight white males you yourself are a sexist, a racist, and have issues with sexual orientation. Hypocrites.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 12:53 AM
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PART TWO (Rape Culture)
(Trigger Warning)

I lost a lot of gusto since the last post, so hopefully I can construct this one with more flamboyant imagery and solid rationale. Kangaruex4Ewe and Cuervo managed a direct hit at the core of the problem with modern feminism. Hypocrisy. Also it's funny that you mention door opening. I started writing this hours ago but had to do the 'mom' thing. It has all that everyone discussed up there about chivalry too. I have a few 'mantras' in my house. "Do not touch what is not yours." and "Always open doors for elders and women." are among the most popular.


I have a decent relationship with my extended family. We’re all a bit crazy, but it is what makes us wonderful. There are so many different opinions, and political views. I was chatting with my cousin (We’ll call her Ella) about my boys and their upbringing. She was disappointed I have taught my boys to “always open doors for elders and women”. It was the “and women” thing that got the whole conversation started. She said she wants my boys to find women who knew how to operate the door-handle. I said “I do too” then made a jab back, “Not only know how to use a doorknob, but maybe even one that can say thank you when someone else is being nice.”

Later we were having coffee and I spoke to her about this, because I was surprised that she even used the term ‘find women’. She rolled back her sleeves and showed me her newest tattoo “FEMINIST” inked in the most feminine flowing script over her forearm. Lacking any pink ink, ribbons, or bows, it was the most categorically girlie thing I've seen on a woman’s body. We spoke about the tattoo (I have four myself) and I wanted to know why she decided to get this permanently scrawled on her skin. She explained ‘teaching your boys to hold the door open’ was somehow culturally stigmatizing them – apparently a man opening a door for a woman is about ownership. My skepticism antae went up. The conversation morphed as I listened to her excitedly talk about her views. Even knowing this topic, even knowing the deep dredges it can scrape at the bottom of the barrel, I cannot express how dumbstruck I with what she said next. Here was my beautiful, intelligent, well-spoken, educated cousin was being taught by a university professor that all “PIV” sex was like rape. And she agreed wholeheartedly.

So I should explain, I personally could only imagine a few things in life that are more traumatic than rape. I am sure there are plenty out there so let me say this: I am so grateful that my particular upbringing allows me to see rape as so horrific that there’s little else on the fringe of my mind that is worse. I strongly believe that rape is one of the worst crimes one human being can do to another. As I tried to continue my coffee, successfully not spitting it out all over the table, her, and the guy sitting behind her, she outlined the argument for me. Each point made me choke a bit more on the coffee I was (by sheer willpower) managing to contain in my mouth.



  • Because conception does not require biological processes anymore, sex is therefore pointless.
  • Because pregnancy is traumatic for a woman, sex is not good for her biologically.
  • Because abortion is traumatic for a woman, sex is not good for her biologically.
  • Because contraceptives a woman can take chemically change her it’s not good for her biologically.
  • Because women feel shame after sex. Always.
  • Because women are brainwashed into thinking sex is pleasurable.
  • Because if ‘no’ doesn't mean no then ‘yes’ has no value either.
  • Because any "PIV" is by biological definition - a woman's body being violated by an outside object.


After I stared at her as if she grew a second (then third) head atop her shoulders I managed to swallow my coffee. I can’t list them all, as I
can’t remember every point. I took another 5 sips of coffee because I wasn’t sure how to respond or even if she was still talking at that point. I pretended to sip, even after the last bits of coffee had been desperately drained from the stupid paper cup. She said that my children were the product of rape and she felt so sorry for me.

Her new favorite term was “rape culture”. Oh, how far we have fallen if we have taken such a serious and dehumanizing crime and made it a buzz-word. She talked about that new nailpolish that can detect date-rape drugs in drinks as if it were evil. “Well if men didn’t rape we wouldn’t need nail-polish like that.” Yes. It is so sad we have to invent ways for people not to forcibly have sex with one another. That doesn’t mean that the effort to save a person from rape is pointless. Needless to say this logic is FLAWED. And if criminals didn’t exist we wouldn’t need prisons. You know, if bullets didn’t kill people we wouldn’t need bullet proof vests.

She spoke about the naked pictures celebrities had stolen. She said that was rape. Detour here. I think that whoever did that is scum. I believe they should be fully prosecuted. Yet I can’t help but reflect… I was always taught if you don’t want something repeated don’t say it. If you don’t want someone to use something against you don’t write it down. Politicians and celebrities haven’t perfected this yet by the looks of their Twitter feeds. I think the same logic goes for photography though. If I don’t want my picture to be on “The People of WalMart “ then I don’t go to WalMart in my best bathrobe with My Little Pony all over it in skid-stained Spiderman underroos. I never understood this shock when photographs are leaked – but this stance is apparently ‘victim shaming’. Even if I think the people who did it are reprehensible. Here I thought it was common sense. Apparently it’s rape too.

What blew my mind was that Ella failed to address when rape is motivated not by sexual aggression, but by power except in one instance. She said something that just made me excuse myself from the conversation. If your blood isn’t boiling, it might kettle scream now. Please do not be holding anything hot that can spill on you, and your keyboard. I warned you. “Men can’t rape men. Because men have no masculine power differential with other men.”

So she’s not alone in this. I found a blog parroting the exact arguments she gave me. If you are interested here it is. I couldn't stomach reading it. This is not some… fringe idea. This is being taught in our universities.

So my beef (other than the obvious) is this. By taking a topic as serious as rape and comparing it to consensual adult sex, we (impersonal mind you) have completely devalued the word. We have ripped all meaning and power it carries with it. We have stripped it from being a heinous crime and compared it to a normal reproductive process. How can we expect a jury to take seriously a violent rape when we say that all sex is rape? How backwards is that? How horrific is it that rape isn't EVER about power in this line of thinking UNLESS a man rapes another man – but then it’s not rape. Is this really the face of feminism? I.. there are no more words.



edit on 9 16 14 by KaDeCo because: Wanted to add a warning for people who may have had trauma.

edit on 9 16 14 by KaDeCo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 12:56 AM
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Since it wouldn't FIT:
PIV Rape? - en.wikipedia.org...(book)
Power and Rape - www.jstor.org...
Date Rape Studies - heinonline.org.../vanlr49&div=36&id=&page=
Flak about nailpolish - thinkprogress.org...
Same views as my cousin: witchwind.wordpress.com...
edit on 9 16 14 by KaDeCo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 12:57 AM
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a reply to: KaDeCo

Fundies come in all flavours...

A99



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:13 AM
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She's not a FEMINIST... She's a MARTYR.

We all know "THOSE PEOPLE". You know... "THOSE" people.

Perpetual victims. Those that claim victimization when Wendy's just removes the tomato from your Classic Double instead of making you a whole new one. Those that take it personally when someone doesn't go out of their way to worship them in some form or fashion or when you don't rush in to stroke their hair lovingly after the paperboy (my apologies... paperperson) threw their morning paper into a mound of gopher poo (on purpose of course).

THOSE PEOPLE

The ones who do anything and everything to put another nail in their cross. Self flagellating themselves with invisible whips, searching incessantly for ONE MORE NAIL to put in the cross they have been forced to bear since before birth... That is their relief. They NEED that nail as surely as the rest of us need to breath.

That is IF you believe "THOSE PEOPLE".

You can't fix them. You can't fix those people. Trying to do so adds about 123 ten penny nails to their ginormous cross and gives them reason to gnash their teeth in perpetual victimhood.

You either have to wait for them to gain their common sense back or learn how to control your reaction to them.(just as you did).

Insanity...

And no... I'm not discounting real rape at all. That is vile. What is even more vile are those claiming rape when there was none.
edit on 9/16/2014 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Go on say it...you mean people with personality disorders...he he...

A99



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:23 AM
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originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
She's not a FEMINIST... She's a MARTYR.

We all know "THOSE PEOPLE". You know... "THOSE" people.



I have an internet crush on you now. Not really. But I should because you encapsulated everything I wanted to say in like 1/2 the space! Way to go.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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originally posted by: KaDeCo

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
She's not a FEMINIST... She's a MARTYR.

We all know "THOSE PEOPLE". You know... "THOSE" people.



I have an internet crush on you now. Not really. But I should because you encapsulated everything I wanted to say in like 1/2 the space! Way to go.


You're not the only person that has "THOSE" people in their family.


It's a freaking chore to just have to deal with some people. Seriously. It's like you should get paid for just sitting in the same room sometimes because it feels a hell of a lot like work when you are forced to do so.




posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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a reply to: KaDeCo

I have a different word for women who want to be like men. "Lesbians". Great thread. Starred and flagged.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:39 AM
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a reply to: KaDeCo

Just want to let you know I think you're a wonderful writer and look forward to reading more from you in the future. It's refreshing. I also hope that you aren't doing a paper on conspiracy theorists and rape culture or something, but I digress.

I think you've done a wonderful job of highlighting the more batcrap insane theories some of these people hold. I know that they mean well like most everyone else, but what they are doing is incredibly harmful to people who are actually suffering oppression and real rape. Rape is a serious crime. It is a serious thing. I agree that it's one of the most awful things you can do to another human being. Using that word over trivial matters that make someone slightly uncomfortable takes power away from that word. Go tell a woman sobbing in a hospital gown you know how she feels because a man stared at your ass once.

I find her points bizarre personally. I also think they're rather sad and some remind me of the things taught to children in orthodox religions. Brainwashed into thinking sex is pleasurable? Women always feel shame after sex? PIV (I hate that) sex is the penis invading? Fine, then the vagina is literally trying to eat the penis. I'm not so convinced. I'm also not always the one who initiates. But then I suppose the girlfriend has been manipulated into thinking the act is pleasurable and easily forgets that she feels shame (that one I can understand HA!) after having sex with me. She makes it sound awful. It's a wonderful thing, especially between two people that are in love. Feels good man.

The rape culture thing falls apart pretty fast if you actually think about it for a minute. I think maybe one or two of the points I've seen made sense to me. She's not really wrong that if people didn't rape we wouldn't need nail polish. if people didn't steal I wouldn't need door locks, if people drove better I wouldn't wear a seatbelt, it goes on and on. I can't be responsible for every other guy out there, just as she can't be responsible for all the women that file false charges when they get mad.

Is she trying to say that all men are equal and always hold the power? Women have certainly been known to rape women. Or does that not count because Patriarchy? I've actually seen that said. Men are not capable of being raped. Even by other men. Yes I'm sure all the men who have been forcibly raped secretly consented. That or rape is only appropriate to use if a woman is involved. Even if it's something as small as saying Miss.

Comparing sex to rape is ridiculous. I can't even come up with an analogy there. It does completely sap the power from the word, while at the same time turning something that is immensely pleasurable (on deeper levels than just the physical) into something ugly. I don't get why people buy this.

I'm not saying there aren't some big issues in this area, but I don't want to apologize for having a penis.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: KaDeCo




I have an internet crush on you now.


Hey! I saw her first.

Oh crap...



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: KaDeCo...Same views as my cousin: witchwind.wordpress.com...


Same flawed logic as we see in racist/extreme right organisations. It's always sad to see that much hate, anger and frustration in one mind. One dark side of the web is that otherwise isolated fools can now find folks mirroring their madness, adding credibility to blatant nonsense.

I didn't know it could go that far...thanks for enlighting!

And, might I add, your writing style is great! (Now was I macho???)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:51 AM
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originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: KaDeCo

The rape culture thing falls apart pretty fast if you actually think about it for a minute. I think maybe one or two of the points I've seen made sense to me. She's not really wrong that if people didn't rape we wouldn't need nail polish. if people didn't steal I wouldn't need door locks, if people drove better I wouldn't wear a seatbelt, it goes on and on. I can't be responsible for every other guy out there, just as she can't be responsible for all the women that file false charges when they get mad.


That was my logic back to her. Her argument was that the nailpolish was a bad thing because if men didn't rape we wouldn't need it. Her argument was more like "Locks on doors are bad and no one should use them because if we taught thieves not to break in we wouldn't need them. Locks create thieves and give them an excuse to rob houses." Well true.... sort of. Yes, we have locks to secure things because we have thieves - but aren't you glad you have a lock because you want to secure your stuff? Do you think laws deter thieves? My argument was: It's a good thing to have something that can detect roofies because we have people who drug drinks.

Sure I'd love to live in a world where we don't need that. But her argument was it's a bad invention and perpetuates the 'rape culture'.

Thank you for the compliments!
edit on 9 16 14 by KaDeCo because: It's late. Grammarly.

edit on 9 16 14 by KaDeCo because: I am bad at grammar and typing things.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 02:01 AM
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a reply to: KaDeCo




Sure I'd love to live in a world where we don't need that. But her argument was it's a bad invention and perpetuates the 'rape culture'.


Lemme guess, because the things very existence requires society's tacit approval of rape?

Let's hope she grows out of it.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 02:10 AM
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originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: KaDeCo




I have an internet crush on you now.


Hey! I saw her first.

Oh crap...


You'll always be my only internet crush Domo.


I don't bat for my own team, so we are safe lol.

Though I do miss your avatar terribly. It took me several posts to notice it was you.

**************************************

And holy hell!!! I have been going through the links you posted OP and I am almost at a loss for words. That is NOTHING SHORT OF INSANE! I don't even....

I had no clue that this was now in the feminist handbook. I don't even know how to describe the stuff I've read. All sex is rape is something I have never heard of. No woman ever enjoys sex?? I sincerely beg to differ and it wasn't because I was brainwashed. As a matter of fact... I'd say my brain takes a vacation when the right chord is struck and I've no damn shame in it.

These links are like car wrecks... I can't look away and I really, REALLY, want to.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 02:13 AM
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I love your rant! I have run into people with the radical feminist mindset and it always just baffles me. What you wrote is exactly what always goes through my head when I listen to them. I can definitely relate to the looks of heads about to explode if you dare mention any profession that isn't up to their approval. It happened when I was asked what my job is and I told them that I am a housewife/stay-at-home-mom. I got the lecture about setting women back decades and all. It didn't matter that it was what I wanted for myself, I was bad for wanting it.

My husband and I have both gotten the glares of death as well for practicing/accepting chivalry. My husband is wonderful about holding doors and holding my coat for me. A handful of times he has gotten evil looks for doing that. He got a nasty look once as he held my coat for me and then lifted my hair out of the collar (my hair goes down to my butt and I HATE having it stuck in my coat - hubs knows this and always pulls it out for me) and this girl muttered that he was infantilizing me and that I shouldn't put up with it. Put up with it? He did it to help me because he knows that I appreciate it.

I just have no patience for the radical/militant feminist mindset anymore. I have a relationship that works because my husband and I compliment and balance each other. I am perfectly happy being the one to gather the garbage and take it out and he is perfectly capable of (and frequently does) curling our daughter's hair and offering fashion advice. If it works for us, what business could it possibly be for any feminist to care how we choose to live?

Yours is a phenomenal rant and I love that you wrote it. Every word is something that has gone through my head every time I've dealt with radical feminists.

Take care,
Cindi



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 02:25 AM
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a reply to: Glencairn

Ha! I get those looks! I'm a housewife/stay at home mom myself and have heard all the same things you have. My husband will also open the door for me, hold my pocketbook if I need him to, and he has even highlighted my hair for me more than several times.

We have old fashioned marriages which seems to be looked down upon these days, instead of being celebrated like it used to be. I'm not against mothers working so I am not sure why they are against mothers who do not. I can tell them that what I do daily is more than any other job I've ever had. I (we) don't get nights, weekends, or holidays off. We don't get time off for being sick and it's a thankless job more times than not.

Now the housewife/stay at home mother is looked at as lazy, doesn't contribute to society, uneducated, and worthless. What job is more important than bringing a child up in this world and actually being there to see it instead of seeing it on the Nanny's Instagram feed?

The sexes are different and should be celebrated... Not stomped out of existence. Together all things can be accomplished whereas neither sex alone is as strong without the other to make it work and balance it out.

I don't understand the hate that comes from feminists as if they somehow have to live the way you do. I don't care if nobody ever opens another door for them as long as they live, so why should they care that I allow my husband to open mine for me??

Acceptance is supposed to work both ways,but it rarely does.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe




You'll always be my only internet crush Domo.


Ours is a beautiful love.

You should go google SJW tumblr. It will blow your mind. I read one the other day where someone said if they had children that were "cis" they would kill them. Cis meaning identifying as the gender you're born with. Just bizarre.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 03:00 AM
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a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Exactly! To everything you wrote, exactly!

I don't feel that I'm being patronized or infantilized when my husband does considerate things for me any more than he feels patronized when I do nice things for him. It's a balance that works for us. Like you said, it isn't like we're trying to force anyone else to live like we do, but if we're happy with our lives why shouldn't we be? Same thing with being a housewife and s-a-h-m, I'm not chaining anyone up in their own house and forcing them to be a housewife, so why does it set anyone back if I choose that for myself? No one forced it on me, I chose it.

I enjoy the differences between my hubs and myself, I wouldn't want us to be exactly the same. Those differences are what make our relationship work as well as it does. So he holds doors or my coat or whatever else, I hold the door for him just as often and that is just fine, but it is some horrible injustice if he holds the door for me. Just baffling.

I'm so glad that I'm not the only woman who is over the whole radical/militant feminism thing.

Take care,
Cindi




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