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Astonishing Quote from John Wesley on Rome as the Beast of Babylon

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posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 03:35 AM
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originally posted by: Maigret
The 10 Horns are TPTB and they will bring about the destruction of the Vatican. The people who comprise the Body of the Scarlet Beast would only get in the way of this destruction...

As far as I can make out, you have worked yourelf round to saying that the Vatican is NEITHER the horns of the Beast NOR the body of the Beast. In other words, not the Beast. Just the Harlot. That, as I have been pointing out, is the more rational answer.


edit on 21-9-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Then you misunderstand me, Disraeli.

The Vatican is a building! In itself, it has no power. Heads and Horns represent leaders who do have / hold power. The Scarlet Beast is the body, which is comprised of people. So yes, the Vatican itself is the great city, but it is neither the horns nor the people.

However the Vatican is the palace, housing the throne of the Eighth Head - the Beast that was, is not, yet who shall be present. This is the Head that suffered the mortal / fatal wound. He was alive, is not alive, yet he shall be present and alive!

Note that the Dragon/Satan/the devil gives the Beast from the Sea, aka the Eighth Head, in Rev 13:2 'his power, his throne and great authority'. (The Bible describes the Antichrist in various ways and under various titles, but if you compare them all, you will be able to see how they link up.)

The Ten Horns are the heads / leaders of 10 countries, who give the power and authority they hold over their people, to this Eighth Head Beast. I suspect the reason for this being that these 10 leaders have trouble dealing with the conditions the world will find itself in, so they will turn to what appears to be a higher authority - e.g. [The Beast / Eighth Head representing a false form of] religion.

The world will marvel when they see this resurrected Eighth Head, and those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will worship him as God, and will for three and a half years, successfully make war against those who refuse to.

This will culminate in the Battle of Armageddon where these forces will be routed and the devil taken captive while the Eighth Head/Little Horn/Beast from the Sea, etc. and the False Prophet are thrown alive into the Lake of Fire.

What will be left to destroy? Only the palace... as the throne and a symbol of that Beast and his false religion.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: Maigret
You still need to find the distinct individual, the Harlot, who is sitting on the Beast at the beginning of ch17, and being attacked by the Beast at the end of the chapter.
If she gets support from the Beast at one stage, and gets torn apart by the Beast at another, she cannot be the Beast. She must be a different entity.


edit on 21-9-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


The Bible says clearly who the Whore woman of Babylon is!

Revelation 17:18 'And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth'.



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: Maigret
Which must be distinct from the Beast for the reasons I've already given.

In one of my threads, I gave a suggested analysis of the three characters for John's own time, while reserving judgement on what they represented in future fulfilment.
Harlot; The CITY of Rome
Beast from the sea; The EMPIRE of Rome
Beast from the land; The EMPEROR of Rome.

Then the Harlot sitting on the Beast is obvious, and the Beast (from the sea) destroying the Harlot was fulfilled in the last days of the Roman Empire.


edit on 21-9-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 09:28 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Maigret
Which must be distinct from the Beast for the reasons I've already given.

In one of my threads, I gave a suggested analysis of the three characters for John's own time, while reserving judgement on what they represented in future fulfilment.
Harlot; The CITY of Rome
Beast from the sea; The EMPIRE of Rome
Beast from the land; The EMPEROR of Rome.

Then the Harlot sitting on the Beast is obvious, and the Beast (from the sea) destroying the Harlot was fulfilled in the last days of the Roman Empire.



So according to your reckoning, prophecies in Revelation are already fulfilled and yet nothing has changed much in the world.

In my take, God's long term plans are only now coming to fruition and His plans are for people who are suitable to be priests in a company/kingdom/nation that will be known as Israel. This was what He offered the Israelites in Exodus 19:5 & 6. This is the purpose for which the Son was the sacrificial Lamb of God. Revelation 5:9 & 10.

It is only those who go through the Tribulation, which is the threshing of the wheat, 'to purge, refine and make white' (Daniel 11:35), who refuse to worship the Antichrist (aka Beast from the Sea, Eighth Head, Little Horn, etc.) or his Image (Revelation 20:4) and are killed because of the name of the Son (Matthew 24:9), who will become priests of God and of the Lamb. Revelation 7:9-15 and Revelation 20:4-6.

Only one generation has this opportunity (Matthew 24:34 and Enoch 1:1) as the Antichrist will only be able to make war against the Elect saints for a given specified period of 1,260 days, which is also 'times, time and half a time' = 3 1/2 years or 42 months. (Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5, 11:3 and 2.)

After the 1,000 years, the rest of mankind - those who don't go through the Tribulation - will be judged according to their works. (Revelation 20:12-13.)

So my scenario is in our immediate future, and I suggest:

The Harlot = The Vatican City
The Scarlet Beast = the body / worshippers of the Antichrist
The Beast from the Sea (aka the Antichrist) = Judas Iscariot 'resurrected' as 'Jesus Christ'
The Beast from the Land = the False Prophet
The Eighth Head = 8th Sovereign of that country known as the Vatican City
The 10 Horns = 10 secular nations / countries

In summary: At the end of the Tribulation, at Armageddon, the Son of God will destroy the armies of those who rose against him, and their flesh will be eaten by the vultures and eagles. Satan also described as the Dragon or the Devil will be taken captive and held for the 1,000 years of peace. The Antichrist aka the Beast from the Sea and the Little Horn of Daniel 7:811, will be thrown alive into the lake of fire and brimstone, along with the False Prophet. (Daniel 7:11 & Revelation 19:20)

So realising that they have been deceived, the 10 kingdoms or secular countries will turn on the Harlot, which is the only thing left of wickedness and evil, to destroy it.

Then God will vent His Wrath on the earth, and afterwards, those who have come through the Tribulation will reign as priests of God and the Lamb for the 1,000 years of peace; during which time there will be no evil, and no other religions.


edit on 21/9/2014 by Maigret because: Clarification



posted on Sep, 21 2014 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

P.S. Can you see from what I've quoted from the Bible in my last post, how different the 'religion' of that whore's organisation is? This is proof of 'her' deceit! This is also why the last head in particular is an abomination, and how the whole of it causes religious desolation!

Matthew Chapter 24 gives the basic outline of what's to come, in particular Verse 9 where the Son tell us, "They will deliver you up to Tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake" He continues to say in Verse 9, "And this gospel [sic] of the Kingdom, will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

This, now, here, to this generation, is where this gospel [sic] is being preached! And the Tribulation will be specifically over his name, which is not the Latin / Catholic version of 'Jesus', but the name God gave him, which is Yeshua.

Judas Iscariot is the true identity of the Beast - who was [alive], is not [alive], but who shall be present, reigning as 'Jesus Christ at his second coming' and his followers will kill anyone refusing to 'bend knee and worship him', but the Israelites will not be fooled even though he will appear so genuine it will be very difficult not to... but the Elect Saints of Israel will know who he is and to expect him, so they will not marvel when he is revealed!

Read this, from The Apocalypse of Peter, the Ethiopic version, available at wesley.nnu.edu...

“Hast thou not understood that the fig-tree is the House of Israel? Verily I say unto thee, when the twigs thereof have sprouted forth in the last days, then shall feigned Christs come and awake expectation saying, ‘I am the Christ, that am now come into the world’. And when they (Israel) shall perceive the wickedness of their deeds, they shall turn away after them and deny him [whom our fathers did praise], even the first Messiah whom they crucified and therein sinned a great sin. But this deceiver is not the Messiah.

[Something is wrong here: the sense required is that Israel perceives the wickedness of Antichrist and does not follow him. Translator’s note.]

“And when they reject him he shall slay with the sword, and there shall be many martyrs. Then shall the twigs of the fig-tree, that is, the house of Israel, shoot forth: many shall become martyrs at his hand.
“Enoch and Elias shall be sent to teach them that this is the deceiver which must come into the world and do signs and wonders to deceive. And therefore shall they that die by his hand be martyrs, and shall be reckoned among the good and righteous martyrs who have pleased God in their life.”


N.B. Enoch and Elias are the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11:3 - 12.



posted on Sep, 22 2014 @ 02:30 AM
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originally posted by: Maigret
So according to your reckoning, prophecies in Revelation are already fulfilled and yet nothing has changed much in the world.

No, my reckoning Revelation was addresssing two different audiences and their concerns at the same time.

John was writing in the middle of Roman persecution of the church.
How could he NOT address the immediate issue that his own church was facing?
His church had to be encouraged to keep the faith, with assurances that God would bring the Roman persecution to an end.
Constantine was the main instrument for this preliminary fulfilment of the prophecies.

At the same time, he was ALSO addressing the issue of the future final persecution of the church (the interval between the Roman persecuton and the final persecution is the "1000 year reign" of ch20). The prophecies get fulfilled all over again, more completely, to the climax of the return of Christ.

Incdentally, the Beast from the sea must be a political state, because it is manifestly based on the beasts from the sea in Daniel's dream. The beasts in Daniel are political states.
For ther relation between the two beasts, think the relation between the Nazi Reich and Adolf Hitler. Did not Hitler "exercise the authority" of the Reich, doing for the corporate body those things which needed to be done by an individual?
Was he not a gigantic mouth, and did he not persuade his audiences to worship the Nazi Reich- that is, to corporately worship themselves?
Then imagine the same thing on a worldwide scale. A world-wide version of patriotism. That explains the willingness to worship, because persuading people to worship themselves is not difficult.



posted on Sep, 24 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Your interpretation of events as history, is dependent on John's church being identified as Christian, and also on John reacting to the events going on in his times.

In my scenario, he was a major prophet, foretelling events that would happen in the last days, as revealed to him by God.

This is the difference between a church that has no contact with God, and one that does!

Isaac Newton, from closely studying his Bible, could see that a new religion with this contact, would have to arise; because what we and he were taught by mainstream Christianity does not agree with the Bible. This is also why he refused the 'last rites' on his death bed. These rites are not Biblical and are of no effect.

Before the crucifixion, ordinary people throughout the Bible, had contact and received insights and prophecies from God Himself. The Son is crucified - to cleanse us from our sins - and all of a sudden and for the last 2,000 years, this contact is non-existent. What happened? Did 'God' die on the cross?

There is no religion nowadays that even claims to have this contact. Why not? What happened? Or don't you see this as a problem?

Now, there are signs that we are in these last days, and so all sorts of pieces of the prophetic puzzle are being revealed. Not least, being the reason for God's silence for the last 2,000 years, which is because it is all part of God's plan and He has been patiently waiting for His crops to ripen for harvesting.

The tares / weeds have also been growing alongside God's crop, until the actual harvest; which accounts for all the evil still in the world.




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