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Russia targets the Baltic states, NATO warns Russia (round 2)

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posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 02:51 AM
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a reply to: victor7

You said "it is stupid to rely solely on nuclear weapons".

Why it is so?

You can rely on nuclear weapons if you are certain these work. If you have weapons that don't work, then it is a different issue.

NATO can surely overwhelm Russia in a land/air war. You said so earlier and I agreed to it.

However I disagree with the nuclear situation.

Russia can still threaten all the key economic centers of Europe in a massive nuclear strike.

The nuclear threat does work.




posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 02:52 AM
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Then why did Putin stats he has no issues with former SSR's doing their own thing provided they consider Russia while making those decisions?

If thats truly his position then there would never have been a need for him to invade Ukraine. Putin is like a ferret on crack when it comes to what is and what is not acceptable to him.

All Putin needs to understand is he no longer controls the former SSR's and those nations can pick and choose who they do business with and who they wont do business with. That means Putin must accept the fact that countries dont want to do business with Russia / Putin.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 02:56 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

There is a difference between influence and control.

You seem to not know the difference.

Putin desires influence over Ukraine, not control. The East Ukraine situation is not desirable as it does not benefit Russia. But it is better than nothing at all.

Your rant is not in tune with conclusion of the conference you are talking about. Do you have any links to prove your point?



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 02:58 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia

I dont think you know the difference to be honest.

Influence would be a result of talking as equals.. Something Russia does not do with former SSR's.

Control would be the result of Russia invading Ukraine and then holding countries hostage via natural gas.

Make sense or do I need to explain a bit more in-depth for you to get?



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 03:08 AM
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Yea, Putin threw Rothschild's out of Russia and took a bunch of their dirty money.

Germany has something like 3000 contract's, agreement's with Russia and it's going to get cold this winter. Wait that Rice lady wasn't it her said the US could supply gas for the EU.

Hey, what about the 1500 Tons of Gold, Germany ask the US to return to them, HA, they wouldn't even let them look at it.

Just wait till it's time to get your shot in the butt, Bill Gates, will really give it to ya.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 03:12 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: GargIndia

I dont think you know the difference to be honest.

Influence would be a result of talking as equals.. Something Russia does not do with former SSR's.

Control would be the result of Russia invading Ukraine and then holding countries hostage via natural gas.

Make sense or do I need to explain a bit more in-depth for you to get?


You seem to be one very frustrated man. I am sorry I wasted time with you.

Go ahead with your rants. Who cares!



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 05:16 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia

So you are incapable of supporting your claims?

If you cannot support them why post them? If you cant support them why do you blame others for calling you out?



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia




Go ahead with your rants. Who cares!


I am going to say you do or you wouldn't reply the way you do.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia

Corruption weakens a country and weakness invites aggression. Whats happening in Ukraine is aggression by NATO on Russia.

Putin chose the middle line so causalities were less than 10,000? Putin did not provide body armor to rebel soldiers and that made a big difference in stats. It could have been shown as mere fundraising by people in various cities and funds collected were used to buy armor for the Donbass fighters. Until Streklov surrendered Sloviansk, rebels were mainly trying to stop tanks with AKs.

Sorry Mr. Putin, you can try to play any geopolitical concert but make sure the human causalities are bare minimum and not in thousands. Same thing happened in Chechneya. Senseless and brutal bombardment of whole villages, towns etc. While Islamics are very hardheaded to listen to any other logic but outright mass artillery destruction of civilians is not the way to deal with problems in current times. In stead of killing 200,000 people, efforts could have been made to totally encircle a town using 100s of checkpoints to stop the flow of weapons etc. Then introduce economic measures to divert the attention of "unemployed men" from fighting to jobs and similar involvements.
Bombing houses and factories results in more destitution which creates more anger and resulting volunteer fighters.




posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: victor7

You keep trying to push the NATO line yet fail to support it.

NATO has done nothing aggressive towards Russia. Only AFTER Russia invaded Ukraine did NATO respond by beefing up NATO presence in nations that border Russia and even then its not permanent.

Prior to Russia aggression there were no permanent NATO bases or NATO forces in a country that directly bordered Russia.

When Putin pulled his "ethnic Russian" crap did former SSR's feel threatened. That threat increased after Russia invaded Ukraine. Everything we have seen to date is a direct result of Putins actions. Everything Putin has complained about with NATO is a direct result of his failed leadership style.

Every action Russia has taken has resulted in the very result Putin claimed he wanted to avoid / stop.
edit on 12-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 06:06 AM
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a reply to: victor7




Corruption weakens a country and weakness invites aggression. Whats happening in Ukraine is aggression by NATO on Russia.


Wrong, as it is aggression in Ukraine by Russia. You seem to forget that Russia was working with NATO until they invaded Crimea.


NATO–Russia Council[edit]

Meeting of the Russia–NATO council in Bucharest, Romania on 4 April 2008
The NATO-Russia Council was created on 28 May 2002 during the 2002 NATO Summit in Rome. The council has been an official diplomatic tool for handling security issues and joint projects between NATO and Russia, involving "consensus-building, consultations, joint decisions and joint actions." [7][8]

"Joint decisions and actions", taken under NATO-Russia Council agreements, include fighting terrorism,[9][10] military cooperation (joint military exercises[11] and personnel training[12]), cooperation on Afghanistan (Russia providing training courses for anti-narcotics officers from Afghanistan and Central Asia countries in cooperation with the UN), transportation by Russia of non-military freight in support of NATO's ISAF in Afghanistan, industrial cooperation, cooperation on defence interoperability, non-proliferation, and other areas.[2]


en.wikipedia.org...

You really do need to update your cold war way of thinking.



Putin chose the middle line so causalities were less than 10,000? Putin did not provide body armor to rebel soldiers and that made a big difference in stats.


No he just supplied everything else including money to finance the conflict, but that is okay right?




It could have been shown as mere fundraising by people in various cities and funds collected were used to buy armor for the Donbass fighters. Until Streklov surrendered Sloviansk, rebels were mainly trying to stop tanks with AKs.


Why do you keep trying to say the separatists only had AK's to fight with when that has been proven false so many times in various threads concerning Ukraine?







Keep pushing that misinformation maybe the new members will believe it until they find out that your just telling fables that aren't true.

In fact you were shown that you were wrong when you said the same thing in this thread from July.

www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=
edit on 12-10-2014 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 06:57 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The short answer to your long post is "maidan changed everything".

The Russia-NATO cooperation is dead.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 07:08 AM
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originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The short answer to your long post is "maidan changed everything".

The Russia-NATO cooperation is dead.


If Russia was even sincere in its co-operation. Think Hitler-Stalin "non-aggression pact."
edit on 12-10-2014 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct typo.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 07:39 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia




The short answer to your long post is "maidan changed everything".

The Russia-NATO cooperation is dead.



It's dead because Putin couldn't stay out of Ukraine, as there were protests long before Russia decided to take over Crimea and Russia was working with NATO at the time.

The corruption of Yanukovych didn't just happen and the protests weren't something that just popped up, but of course you don't want to believe that do you?



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You are pushing your version of history, despite knowing fully well that your version of history is propaganda.

Anti-government protests are commonplace except in some countries where citizens are micro-managed. What happens to dissent in USA for example. Why no other party except democratic and republican ever wins elections in USA even at local level.

The real fact is USA is far more fascist than appears on the surface.

My problem is not protests. My problem is violent events associated with these protests and violent events thereafter. The consistent support that criminal Poroshenko government is getting from the West.


edit on 12-10-2014 by GargIndia because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You are pushing your version of history, despite knowing fully well that your version of history is propaganda.

Anti-government protests are commonplace except in some countries where citizens are micro-managed. What happens to dissent in USA for example. Why no other party except democratic and republican ever wins elections in USA even at local level.

The real fact is USA is far more fascist than appears on the surface.

My problem is not protests. My problem is violent events associated with these protests and violent events thereafter. The consistent support that criminal Poroshenko government is getting from the West.



Well im glad to see you finally admitted Ukraine had nothing to do with a Nazi take over like Putin claims. The protests started long before Putin got involved in fact he could have helped stop them if he chose to. He didnt he wanted to ramp up the conflict to give him an excuse to send in troops. Move on to eastern Ukraine he actually sends NAZIs to take over and ferment rebellion. He has shown hes willing to not only arm Nazis but even sent troops to fight with them. So that whole hes fighting Nazis is garbage. If he wanted to fight Nazis he needs to stop sending weapons to them but i guess as long as the Nazis are from Russia hes ok with that. In fact he allows them to run around Russia attacking people as long as they only attack the people he doesnt like. See he could easily have these neo nazis arrested for gay bashing and attacking immigrants they post videos doing it. So un less you believe the Russian government is totally incompetent and cant seem to figure out who the people in the videos are than looking the other way is nothing more than condoning there agenda.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 10:34 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

The volunteer Russians fighting in Ukraine are mostly Ultranationalist. They are not Nazis although few might have in the past associated with such groups. There are Russian Nazis who are a part of Azov and Aidar Battalions on Kiev Junta.

Regarding Russian groups bashing gays or chasing immigrants (who break laws and create criminal scenarios) are doing so to protect their society from lower morality and criminal commotion. These groups do not attack normal immigrants.



posted on Oct, 12 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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a reply to: victor7

You are making excuses just like the Nazis did.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 08:14 AM
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Very important news related to Ukraine:

Ukraine's Poroshenko proposes National Guard commander for defense minister

Credit: Reuters/Valentyn Ogirenko Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko speaks to the media during a news conference in Kiev September 25, 2014. Poltorak would replace Valery Heletey, who offered his resignation as defense minister on Sunday after facing open criticism for the rout of Ukrainian forces by Russian-backed separatists at the end of August.

WHY THIS NEWS IS OMINOUS

Poroshenko appoints a militia commander as defence minister. This clearly tells what direction the war is to take. Poroshenko wants to make it a blood feud. We shall see far more questionable methods employed by Kiev which will bring increasing escalation from the rebels.



posted on Oct, 13 2014 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: victor7

One more thing I want to add. Our assessment is that Russia can hold off a conventional NATO assault.

There is a big difference in defence and attack.

However a NATO attack on Russia proper will most likely go nuclear in a very short time.




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