Dealing with myself as multifaceted, the struggle between the external and internal "self"

There's my own self-image and then there is my mind that reads others and creates an image of me from the point of view from another. This ability developed because I wanted to live up to the expectations of others and felt others would know better, or at least those of a university degree, the intellectuals in society.

So to manage things there is me made up of expectations and interactions with lower class, a me formed by interaction with middle class and the me formed by views and feedback from upper class and that's 6 in total depending if I'm on someone's good side or bad side.

Then there is my true self, like in an alternate (imaginary) timeline where everything is good, the best one can imagine and the fake self from an alternate (imaginary) reality where everything is bad and a 3rd self when those realities are combined. I rest in the fact one can only be oneself even if that means it is a combination of those different versions and ofcourse the idea one day I'll be up in heaven and I don't have to entertain the other versions of myself.

I used to be exactly like you when I was younger. "me" as in my true self is still much different from my external self. but as the years went on, I accepted it as an advantage

it's an awareness many people don't have, because they put on a show for their peers and learn to become the external person that people want them to be, so they are accepted.

you and I, we can make our external self whatever we want it to be. whenever, wherever. the skill has made me an excellent salesperson!

the only person who will know the true person you are will be your closest friends and loved ones.

best of luck!

a reply to: SystemResistor
I thought that you might find this video helpful.

a reply to: SystemResistor
Excellent topic, SystemResistor
So poignant (imo), well stated...and has elicited so many excellent replies!!!

The following is my opinion... May have value...may not...

The 'you' that works to please everyone is the weaker...but, keeps things in check.
The 'you' that seems to be perceived as brutish, awkward, asocial, etc...is the powerhouse...that would tear you and your world apart, if unleashed absent a guided/disciplined...lengthy...arduous...transition.
To develop a genuine appreciation for the intrinsic value/s & contributions of both 'you''s...might be a better path than discounting one in favor of the other.

Again - just my opinion.

a reply to: WanDash

The question is, what gives rise to the mechanism itself, there is a part of "me" that rejects the inner, and due to that, restricts it. It would be as mentioned, a result of my perceptions of the outside world, and behaviours that I deem to be "inappropriate" or "undesirable" - these I believe to be wounds more than anything, because, when I truly do act as my own, in isolation, there is a feeling of being "me" that cannot be denied, and it is amazing. I see that the wounds to myself would thus cause me to be either apprehensive or defensive - in order to heal these wounds, I must be bold and "be" myself - however, as mentioned additionally, the choices I have made up to this point are the result of the choices made to follow the "external" self - and this includes my job, my friends, and even my possessions.

I would imagine, that, if I were to "switch off" the external projection, I would experience turmoil, however, the course of my life would change as I would be making the choices that I truly want to make.

I remember reading about "following ones passion" and yes, I would make some radical choices if I were to do that, however, you can see from my point of view, the following barriers:

Finding a different job:

- Fear of disappointing my co-workers
- Fear of losing a stable source of income
- Fear of losing the confidence of my family members

Choosing to act as my inner-self:

- Fear of the reactions to my inner-self
- Fear of conflicts and confrontations
- Fear of going against my own altruistic principles

Possessions:

- Letting go of my possessions
- Fear of losing the wealth that they represent

This being said, I do know that there are many "big" choices yet to be made, and at the moment, I fear to follow my inner-guide, as, these choices will pull me out of my "niche" and generate conflicts because I would be travelling a different path to the one that I am currently on.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I feel that "choice" intercedes between acting autonomously, from the "source", and choosing to act from what one "observes" externally - that being the "false" self. The problem is that, fear is the barrier that prevents me from abstaining from this choice, fear of expressing myself causes a sudden displacement of my awareness, and then, usually, I resort to choosing to express the external "him".

For example, when approached by another person, I react suddenly with a response, however, if I were to try and over-ride this, I would have to pause, gather my thoughts, centre myself, and then respond. It is fear that causes me to react, you can call it a "knee-jerk" reaction.

Sometimes, when conversation is dry, and I get to be the instigator of a conversation, I have thoughts occur to me, and then, usually, I choose not to express them. Every time this happens I am denying my inner-self, and the result is a brief "shadow" in my mind of "what I could have said" and the following fear of "what could have happened if I said it" feeding and reinforcing the falsity.

a reply to: SystemResistor

Honestly, I am the same "self" pretty much at all times...However, I have my work "self" which is able to speak more professionally, and less profanely, than my usual "self".

Other than that, I am pretty much the same in all situations. I am a team player, but NOT a brown noser (in fact, I cannot stand brown nosers, at all) and am cool with you if you are cool to me. If you act like a stuck up know it all? I will still be cordial and professional, but I am also probably cussing you out in my head while smiling at you.

I took an undergrad class (cannot think of what it was called now) but it was about self-awareness, basically. I learned a lot and it helped me a great deal in my work life as I think I used to sometimes come off as either a total B or a little "special" myself...But I also find that the way I rub off on others depends a lot on their personality, too.

If you're a total stick in the mud that cannot crack a joke or a smile in 12 hours then I will not really talk or interact with you. That goes for Negative Nancy's, people constantly complaining about their head, neck, back, eye, or whatever. I cannot stand to hear people complain about their ailments all day. Unless they are my patient, then it is o.k.

I do know that if I am around a bunch of negative type people, it puts me in a bad, bad mood and I am right there with them...That's where the self-awareness kicks in and I move away from them or just keep myself extra busy to make the day go by faster...

Hope this makes sense. I'm going on very little sleep right now but I wanted to respond because I thought this was a very interesting thread. S&F for you!!

a reply to: lovebeck

It does require an amount of energy in order to maintain my external self, and it does prevent the inner-me from behaving in a negative fashion, however, I would much prefer to be myself if it would not change the course of my life and interactions. Most likely I would seem to be self-conceited and a total cheap-skate if it were not for my external representation. "He", on the other hand, is empathetic and generous, however, is easily taken advantage of and falls prey to ridicule.

a reply to: SystemResistor

Maybe this inner self you think you want to be isn't really the you that you truly want to represent you, thus this conflict within your inner self and the deeper part of you that suppresses it. Maybe it's simply a fantasy you that you imagine would take control and shape things in your favor, yet there's still the deeper part of you saying it's not right and it's not really what you want. Maybe you need to keep searching to find the you that you want. At least this is how this thread made me feel about myself. It's a struggle reconciling all the selves into that desired being but I think eastern religions hold the key to that search.

The reference to this dichotomy being identified as a "true self" and a "false self" might be misleading.

These are both parts of who you are. We have a tendency to identify the internal characteristics as "true", assuming they are our core from which all else springs... but I find that, when I have made the effort to externalize that inner "self", on a daily basis, guess what happens? I start to feel like the other (previously externalized) characteristics are actually my "true self"!

You can internalize either, and it will seem to be your "core" then.

My husband is just about the opposite of me in every way, in his behavior and way of interacting with the world. Yet, he expresses sometimes that his true nature within, which no one else sees, is the opposite- that is, I am just about the best representation of his inner self as he has ever known. I behave the way he would like to, but that goes against his conditioning.

Likewise, I fell in love with him precisely because he manifests the inner me- the one I'd like to express in face of others, and often just can't. He is the embodiment of my internal self.

But I no longer refer to that as my "true" self, just my other half.... or my masculine side, my animus. He has his anima, and we see those reflected in each other. But these are internalized, yet equal parts of myself- neither more "true" than the other.

In some ways, our relationship allows us to live that internalized part through the other, but also tends to inspire us to externalize them ourself- especially when the other is not present. We pick up each others behaviorisms. They emerge in the absence of that external "example".

This is one of the ways relationships can aid us to be more self aware.
But I digress- my point was- put one inside, or the other, it will seem to be the "true" self. They may just be equal, opposing, or complimentary, parts of the "true" self.

I was at my psychiatrist today, I have a requirement by law to see one for my identity "disorder"... made me come back to this thread.

I dont recall if you (or anyone has suggested) have mentioned speaking to a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist, but it is something they would take seriously, its not like a fear of marshmallows because you watched Ghostbusters as a child...

Ok, I was trying to think of some frivolous disorder (apologies to everyone who is afraid of marshmallows), but it might be something you will benefit from.

You have a legitimate concern, and its what they do.

originally posted by: SystemResistor
a reply to: Itisnowagain

I feel that "choice" intercedes between acting autonomously, from the "source", and choosing to act from what one "observes" externally - that being the "false" self. The problem is that, fear is the barrier that prevents me from abstaining from this choice, fear of expressing myself causes a sudden displacement of my awareness, and then, usually, I resort to choosing to express the external "him".

It is the belief in 'choice' that is causing the struggle. Who is dealing with who?
Both of the characters (which you have called 'internal' and 'external') are just what is seen to be appearing. (Your) awareness can never be displaced - as it is always aware of what is happening - it is in (your) awareness that the characters appear. The characters do what they do and you just get to observe.
Awareness does not belong to you - you are awareness. The aware presence (that is the true self) does not show itself, so is not seen so it gets overlooked.
Neti, neti - means that you are not this, not this - meaning that anything that can be observed is not you. You are the witness/observer of all that is apparently appearing (including all thought and sensation). Right now there is an appearance - the room, the computer, hands, sounds, etc. - and there is a knowing that there is an appearance of a room, computer, hands etc - all contained in the one image (that is constantly changing).

Sometimes, when conversation is dry, and I get to be the instigator of a conversation, I have thoughts occur to me, and then, usually, I choose not to express them. Every time this happens I am denying my inner-self, and the result is a brief "shadow" in my mind of "what I could have said" and the following fear of "what could have happened if I said it" feeding and reinforcing the falsity.

The idea that you choose to not express has you beating yourself up - conflict and dis ease. The energy that you are is divided against itself. The idea that you are 'denying your inner self' is just an idea arising.
Is it possible for you to just observe what is happening (arising thoughts that may appear to be more than one person) and not buy into what is heard?

The true self is that which is knowing that which is arising - it is what notices - it makes no sound and is totally transparent.

It seems as if you are trying to be one thing and not another (I might be wrong), if you notice that what you really are is; what is 'noticing' then you might find that you are always the same regardless of what is happening and that all that arises just arises. If speaking does not happen when thought is occurring then that is what happens, if the mouth moves and words come out then that is what is happening.
You are the one that is watching/noticing all of the characters - the watcher/witness/observer cannot be divided.

I think I understand what you mean when you say 'awareness gets displaced' now, maybe? The thoughts tell stories and the awareness is then full of another 'place and time' other than what is, which is here and now. The words make stories of other and the awareness seems (seams) to go somewhere else and then there is fragmentation (worship no other god springs to mind). 'The Power of Now' is a great book to help one realize that one is always now regardless of what the stories (speech mind) say- one can be led astray. Anyway, thoughts speak of other and this 'other' is where the awareness can seem to be 'displaced', 'other time', 'other place', 'other way' (I should have done it different). Awareness cannot be 'displaced' really as it is always right here (exactly where you always are because you are awareness) - it is just viewing things that are not really happening (past/future, somewhere else) - 'other' than what is.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I can make a definition here, about what I refer to as my inner-self that I want to express outwardly - it is a true reflection of both my feelings and intentions, this way, I appear as myself when interacting with others. The external is there because parts of me deny what I truly feel and are also afraid of expressing my true intent. This can be problematic if it were to occur, as mentioned, however, I would feel a sense of completeness because people can see me the way that I am.

In terms of the absolute, then there is of course the "self" - however, what I am referring to here can be seen in the other sense as the manifestation of my personality, and thus it happens when I cease to interrupt or alter or abstain from making responses to others.

I do understand the concept of being one and true to the absolute, and additionally I can meditate and "be" - however, this state itself has no real character, however, I see that when I act autonomously, it does spring from my true nature, and when I alter what I do in response to fear, it is the result of attachments, namely the attachment to the ego - it is my ego that prevents "me" from expressing itself, by itself.

For example, if I am emotionally wounded, my natural response would be to show emotion, I would possibly even cry, however, as soon as such a feeling takes hold, I hold up the façade, once again...

I guess it is just not practical for me to express myself truly, we do not live in such an evolved society, where you are not judged by others in any way shape or form.

a reply to: SystemResistor
As soon as there appears to be another there will be fear.

Any thing that believes it is a thing among other things will have fear and also desire.
The cause of 'human suffering' is feeling as though there is 'something' more.
There is only you and what appears in you as you. Only when this is realized (not told or understood intellectually) will there be peace.

You are the ocean and you see yourself waving.

Is there anyone in a dream? Even the dreamer cannot be found. Only the dream is experienced.

Here is a great video.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I can see the external representation of myself when others are around, and I can see the self that I feel comfortable with when I am alone. Yes, they are both "selves" and both can be observed, and thus the observer is not part of the equation and not defined as either of these "selves".

I define one as being "true" because it acts autonomously, that means, it acts without any form of choice, much like how we breathe naturally, and also, can choose to breathe if we want to - there is a self that acts naturally, and there is also a self that we can choose to exhibit.

The latter is what I am dealing with at the moment, delving into its mechanisms we can see it is a denial of what is and what occurs naturally, it is based on our past experiences and also our conceptions of reality.

For example, I conceive that speaking about my dreams in regular conversation is too "different" and have learnt through experience, even unacceptable. Because of this, I choose not to speak of them, otherwise, if I lost the ability to choose, I would.

a reply to: SystemResistor

I am sorry for your pain and suffering in the division found within your heart and mind

I too have felt similar

What I have found, through investigating the body, mind and heart, is that any sort of 'me' that can be identified is identified based on interdependent phenomena. As all phenomena is changing, transforming, the identity which stays is a clinging form, always switching between the positions of defense and offense, as there is not center to it which is still and truly grounded.

Peace is found in the acceptance of all that moves through us, and by understanding how the workings of our body, heart and mind construct this image using the pieces given. Then one can freely move from one form to the next to best fit the situation and not cling to anyway of thinking on how one 'should' or 'shouldn't' act from interior or exterior motivators. One finds a way to move from the center of the heart, where peace is found.

The perceptions that others hold of you will always differ, there will be similarities, but altogether it is their perception, masked and transformed through their own hearts and minds and biases. Unity is not found by the qualities we assign phenomena, unity is found by understanding the transient co-relational arising of phenomena and where our awareness of it actually sits. We will find ourselves at the center of all things, before the quality is assigned and the mind is trapped.

Accept yourself, in all its facets. Become strong in the ways that bring you peace, virtue, health, love, kindness, compassion. Then truly, you are the master of your fate, through the inner gate of your heart, not bound to any outcome of the interior or exterior workings of the mind.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

What a pertinent thread....Cool ,man

I go through this subject daily....and the answer is God knows and gives us room to ramble around a little.

OP....you are plowing deep here....I love that!!

originally posted by: Watchfull
You sound similar to myself, in many ways.

I can write with very good clarity, and convey my messages well, but am unable to reach anywhere near my level of communication, when speaking.

Having said that, I too, am often ignored, and spoken over whilst attempting to converse, but here's the hitter, and this has only become apparent in recent years.

That's because of all the visible clutter and atmosphere that exists when talking to folks or expressing ideas and opinions out there on the streets as it were. Folks see you in relative positions and you many not have a really captive audience or someone with the proper doorway open to really hear you. Its different here for the most part. At least in a conversation like this.

In addition folks in this culture have lost the art of face to face communication. Communications being the key word.

originally posted by: Dystopium
a reply to: SystemResistor

Maybe this inner self you think you want to be isn't really the you that you truly want to represent you, thus this conflict within your inner self and the deeper part of you that suppresses it. Maybe it's simply a fantasy you that you imagine would take control and shape things in your favor, yet there's still the deeper part of you saying it's not right and it's not really what you want. Maybe you need to keep searching to find the you that you want. At least this is how this thread made me feel about myself. It's a struggle reconciling all the selves into that desired being but I think eastern religions hold the key to that search.

Try moving from the different parts of self or even representative parts of self as a projection. At least keep things suspended until you can determine a level you need to operate at. Who am I talking to is the question.

Being your real self is relative in the communication process. Understanding that reduces conflict. Understanding the level of communication required in any given situation is important. Level one being grunts and low syllable words level ten being intellect to intellect full intellectual engagement.

It may be that the deeper self that seems to suppress what you call the inner self has more to do with who you are talking to. Its a natural defense mechanism and wisdom and not really a matter of dysfunctional suppression.

I am not going to say anything here save that there is a good deal present about human nature, disguise, communication and warning signals.