It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

California, Oregon Aerosol Spraying continues the Drought 9 11 2014

page: 4
6
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 03:25 PM
link   
a reply to: network dude

I can't disprove what others claim to have seen. I think a vary small portion of what people claim to have seen are weather modification experiments and I mean a small portion. The lions share are simply misidentified and are contrails. Now whether contrails are having an effect on climate is also being debated....so that is the extent of it. I make no claims of agendas or ill intent only that some of the things being seen are not contrails. I coined a term in another thread something like Unidentified Contrail-like Vapor or something to the effect....I will look later I have to get to work now...




posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 03:31 PM
link   
a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Have fun at work. I am interested in this small minority of trails you speak of. I really want to know what about them makes you think they are something other than a contrail. Have a good day.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 04:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: network dude

Or a form of geo-engineering was occurring prior to the term being coined.



In which case it was already known and it would be obvious that it should be included in the moratorium.

Yet it was not....

as to another of your points - whether geoengineering is happening or not is NOT a matter of opinion - either it is, or it is not.

If it is then there will be evidence - there are many possible geoengineering activities that ARE happening or have happened (even if only isolated cases or experimentally)- eg carbon sequestration, ocean fertilization, "cool roofs", reforestation.

And there are many activities that geoengineer the planet without intending that as a specific consequence (which means strictly they aren't geoengineering 'cos geoenginering is supposed to be deliberate) such as deforestation, pollution of waterways & oceans, carbon emissions.

So you opinion is irrelevant - if you think something is happening then you need to be able to support it with some evidence.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 06:18 PM
link   
a reply to: Char-Lee




Well Randyvs you may feel as I do if you saw to military jets come to a small coastal town and one fly N/S one E/W and make a huge grid as far as the eye can see in all directions and then leave. The town is at the corner there OR/CA of the map in the OP.


You could be right Char, who knows? I could flip like a
pancake. But why I finally flipped the first time was a thought
I had on my own.

Anyone who would poison the air they themselves must
breathe. Won't be out of the rubber room long enough
to do so. And they most likely won't have the smartz to fly
a plane any way.


edit on Rpm91414v20201400000000 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 07:51 PM
link   
a reply to: randyvs




Anyone who would poison the air they themselves must
breathe. Won't be out of the rubber room long enough
to do so. And they most likely won't have the smartz to fly
a plane any way.

:-) Why I lvu Randy...

My take on it is that poison is not their purpose and the persons on the spray only know they are supposed to do their job anyway. There are many many mysterious changes going on planet earth, no reson at all they could not know something and been trying to ..fix...something we know nothing about.

There could be other reasons that if I state them here will only get me pounded and i am not in the get pounded mood at the moment!



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 09:51 PM
link   
a reply to: Char-Lee

And just like the gal I know around here, you fire
back with a solid sensible clear cut retort.

Ditto baby!



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 08:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: Char-Lee
There are many many mysterious changes going on planet earth, no reson at all they could not know something and been trying to ..fix...something we know nothing about.

Sure -- maybe they are. However, is there any evidence they are doing this through a method and manner that looks exactly like normal persistent contrails?

I mean, as long as we are engaging in speculation, I can speculate that industrial smokestacks are being used to pump out beneficial substances into the air...

...I do NOT actually believe that to be the case, but as long as we are speculating, I may as well put it out there.


edit on 9/15/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 10:04 AM
link   
a reply to: network dude

Ugh....long night...

Like I said earlier I can't disprove what someone claims to have seen. The only thing that makes me think a small portion are not contrails is that weather modification is occurring and it is bound to been seen on ocasion. I just think a vary small portion of what is seen are things such as cloud seeding being mistakenly taken as something else. Something like this Malaysian Cloud Seeding image that has been around since 2005...or this operation in the UK....

Nanotech Rainmaking

I simply think many people jump to malicious intent when they think they see something out of the norm.
edit on 15-9-2014 by ParanoidAmerican because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 10:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
I just think a vary small portion of what is seen are things such as cloud seeding being mistakenly taken as something else. Something like this Malaysian Cloud Seeding image that has been around since 2005...


Still, that is cloud seeding, which should not be confused with contrails. Most contrails occur at 30,000 feet up or higher. Most of the airliners you see making contrails are at 32,000 or 35,000 feet and up. Cloud seeding is usually done at a much lower altitude -- 5,000 or 10,000 feet up.

The look of cloud seeding is very different than contrails, and it would be extremely difficult to confuse cloud seeding with contrails (if the person has an understanding of contrails and cloud seeding). A plane at 5,000 or 10,000 feet looks (and is) much, much lower than a plane at 32,000 feet.

Here is the original article from which this image came. In this case, the cloud seeding was being done to hopefully make it rain to help extinguish forest fires in Sumatra:

Cloud seeding over Sumatra until all fires are extinguished



Here is a more recent article about the Malaysian Air Force conducting cloud seeding to (hopefully) bring rain to a dry region:

Rain relief for Klang Valley folks soon


EDIT TO ADD:
I would take the purported effectiveness (reported by these articles) of this Malaysian cloud seeding with a grain of salt (no pun intended). These come from a Malaysian state-run news organization, and they have a vested interest in making it sound as if the Malaysian Government is doing everything it can to help its citizens.


edit on 9/15/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 10:51 AM
link   
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Exactly, not every person takes time to learn about this stuff which is why things are misidentified. To me it is the same as people who claim UFO every time they see something goofy flying around, not everything is a UFO some are a KFO (Known Flying Object) just maybe not to the observer. Everything hinges on the observer and their understanding of what they are seeing.

I chose the other article because it had a better image of the same thing.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 10:54 AM
link   
a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

I used to be a third shifter. My sympathies. I can see why you think like you do.
As Soylent mentioned, the altitude for cloud seeding is vastly different than persistent contrails. And cloud seeding is done above the cloud in question. (which makes it impossible to be seen from the ground) But If all I saw were those pictures, I might think otherwise.

Thanks for clarifying your position. It does make it easier to understand.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 12:00 PM
link   
a reply to: WhiteAlice


Okay, this is what happens when someone has made zero attempt to understand how climate and weather works and then looks at a satellite image to interpret it.


I'm sorry if it appeared to you that I made "zero attempt" to understand this subject.
My line of education, experience and expertise is in the building trades. However I do find enjoyment going through websites like ATS to find truth. Things I find interest in, such as this OP, I try to delve a little deeper into, and I feel I have a basic understanding of the information involved.
When I feel I need a deeper understanding of a specific topic, I am grateful that there are many here that will share their topic specific expertise.
Again, if my reasoning offended you than I apologize, but I am grateful to the many that share their knowledge with all.
Just trying to "deny ignorance"



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 12:16 PM
link   
a reply to: stosh64

Actually, I should've specifically remarked that the video that you linked is what I was referring to so if anyone needs to apologize, it's me for not being clear on that point. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

The guy that made the video took the time to make the video without regard or seeming research beyond his own specific view was the target for that remark. You were simply asking a question based on that video and bringing it up for discussion. Bringing up something for discussion and the sharing of information is super important. If you hadn't posted it, then I wouldn't have had the opportunity to share what I understand on the subject as I do have education in ecology, climatology, meteorology and geology. I'm no expert either though. A lot of the papers I read sometimes go zooming over my head, too, lol, and take a few reads to get the gist of.

I live in part of the affected area and as my horizons are filled with smoke from wildfires, I'm deeply worried. We are in a period of seeming climatic change regardless of causation. Of that I have zero doubt as I've been watching these shifts of climate for years now. This last year is frightening to me as a part of me knows that the wildfires on my horizon might very well be a way that the ecology of an area alters and adjusts. As a species, we tend to live in defiance of nature and we may be facing a losing battle in many areas. Hopefully, I'm wrong.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 12:53 PM
link   
a reply to: WhiteAlice

It's all good. And I appreciate the time, effort and knowledge you brought to the discussion.

Must of us are here for the same reason. I am very grateful to all those who share their knowledge and expertise throughout this site.

There are a few here for other reasons, but that's another thread.


And thanks for all the responses to this op! I've learned a lot.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 04:17 PM
link   
a reply to: stosh64

You're welcome. One of the things that I love about these boards is that there is such a great variety of people from all over with a a whole lot of different outlooks. It keeps us all learning, I think, because never know when a question or observation is going to come up that ends up leading to somewhere uncharted.

Cheers!



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 04:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

And yet you still think cloudseeding is geoengineering...that leaves me baffled as to how you come to this conclusion.


Because he's right. Cloud seeding is part of geoengineering.

UCLA: link


Nevertheless: The short lifetime of aerosols, the short response time of clouds to aerosol perturbations, the fact that the perturbation is to existing components of the natural system, the strong influence on climate, cost --> make cloud seeding interesting to consider as a means to geo-engineering


Yale: link link2


Recent research indicates that by seeding cirrus clouds with particles that promote ice nucleation, their lifetimes and coverage could be reduced. We have tested this hypothesis in a global climate model with a state-of-the-art representation of cirrus clouds and find that cirrus cloud seeding has the potential to cancel the entire warming caused by human activity from pre-industrial times to present day.


The Counsel on Foreign Relations Geoengineering think tank : link


Enhanced cloud coverage would be accomplished by artificially increasing the concentration of cloud condensation nuclei (CCN). Proposals for this strategy typically target the low-level marine stratocumulus clouds that frequently lie off the upwind coast of most continents.


on and on and on....
link


General circulation model computations using a fully coupled ocean–atmosphere model indicate that increasing cloud reflectivity by seeding maritime boundary layer clouds with particles made from seawater may compensate for some of the effects on climate of increasing greenhouse gas concentrations. The chosen seeding strategy (one of many possible scenarios) can restore global averages of temperature, precipitation and sea ice to present day values, but not simultaneously.


There are dozens more articles, these are ones I pulled with just a quick search. I've linked to many in past threads also.

Real science is not as fun as straw men, I know. Too much like work posting in these threads day in and day out; I helped form this part of ATS and I can't stand to argue this stuff day in and day out...

But I hate to see the new comers pushed around like this. Hang in there new guys, theres lots of good science out there to refute most of their junk... just as I did in this post. It's been shown time and again and they just ignore it and try to beat the new comers down.

Here's a youtube video explaining some of this if people don't want to read about geoengineering through cloud seeding.


If they haven't started geoengineering already we need to stop these idiots before they destroy our environment!



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 05:48 AM
link   
a reply to: pianopraze

You are against cloud seeding? Based on what fear? Honest question.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 10:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: pianopraze

You are against cloud seeding? Based on what fear? Honest question.


I'm against geoengineering period.

The list of reasons is long and provided by the geoengineers themselves.

Unknown ecological disasters.
Viruses that haven't been seen in thousands of years that are floating in the atmosphere coming down.
Toxicity of chemicals.
Destroying of the oceans.
Man's history of meddling with the unknown leading to more problems than fixes... these are just a few the geoengineers themselves have listed.


Here is David Keeth talking about just a few of the dangers.




posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 11:33 AM
link   
a reply to: pianopraze

I am with you on that. It's just that cloud seeding has been going on for over 60 years and I am not aware of any ill affects. I disagree that it should be lumped in with geo-engineering for that very reason.

I think all the resident debunkers here are on the same page. Mostly here to help folks not fear clouds and contrails, but think that geo-engineering is a bad idea and should not be done. I know I check the links when given because I want to be sure that I don't think anyone is doing any experimentation.

Sadly, I think that anything that would be done, would be extremely hard to detect, as everything proposed for SRM is done above where planes fly and to my knowledge, it wouldn't look like anything but a cloudy sky. But I think it's good that people stay vigilant on the subject. Since chemtrails are part of this forum, we seem to get pulled into defending the skies from geo-engineering as well, and I don't think we should. But with so much differing of opinion on the subject, it's a never ending discussion.



posted on Sep, 17 2014 @ 02:53 PM
link   
a reply to: pianopraze




Because he's right. Cloud seeding is part of geoengineering.


Actually it isn't, because it really is only a theory from the geoengineering standpoint, unlike regular cloud seeding that has been done since the 60's.




top topics



 
6
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join