School to fingerprint students to ‘monitor their diets’

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
a reply to: jude11

Fingerprints are just another way to identify someone. We have many ways to identify people.

Don't fear data that can help us all.

I guessed you missed the ruckus over the new Apple Iphone then? It requires a biometric signature/AKA your fingerprint to unlock it. Oh! it works alright, But all someone needs is a decent copy of your fingerprint uploaded to a computer from say, a glass. That doesn't just mean they can nick your phone and use it, it also means they have got your biometric signature..identity theft. Just think of the trouble that could cause!

a reply to: neoholographic

I live and work in Stourbridge, and my son is schooled in the town too, though not at Redhill (which I do know incidentally).

The whole comment about "monitoring kid's diets" is just the headmaster trying to add a "healthy" spin (ham-fistedly) on their biometric cashless system imo - there is no way you will find unhealthy food on offer in a Stourbridge school as policies forbid this and the town overall is in tune with nutrition, whole foods etc having had for many years a great many people who campaign in this and related areas.

In this case I think that biometrics could be useful: kids avoid carrying cash, plus they cant lose a payment/id card etc and miss lunch. Along as the biometric info is all confidential then all is well and this is the real issue for me: how the data is stored, made confidential and then destroyed

This really is not a new development. The school I work at implemented this system of cashless payment for lunches about 5 years ago. I also refused to give my fingerprint, but have not been penalised for it, apart from not being able to buy any lunches. Unlike another poster I am free to take my own in, or more often than not when I have the time I drive out to the local supermarket to buy something (which tastes better than the school food anyway!).

I do worry that every kid that goes through school has their biometric details saved on a government system before they are 12 years old, and how that will be used in the future. Parents, though, love it as they can keep tabs on their kids.

In my opinion one of the biggest problems from this generation of kids is not learning any independent responsibility as every move they make is tracked in some way. Don't even start me on every kid having a mobile phone, and how the parents react to the school when we confiscate them!

If this had happened when I was younger, how on earth would I have saved enough money for more important things (like cigarettes!) if I could not skip lunch and use the money elsewhere.

Not really seeing the problem with this. Most schools have I.D. cards for lunch... Do you really think they aren't tracking what kids eat through those? When I was in high school, I lost my card far too often. Can't lose your card if it's your fingerprint.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

Thank you in advance for playing Devil's advocate. Here's my retort:

I agree that what a child purchases at the lunch line is useful information, particularly for a country which has a nationalized health system. However, the same thing could be done using the student id card, which students typically already have in order to check out books at school or identify them as being students both at school and at other venues (here in the states we have a lot of places that offer discounts to students). Fingerprinting isn't going to eliminate the need for a student id card, which is, basically, photo identification of the student.

Nor is it going to tell those monitoring what the child is purchasing anything reliable about what the child is actually eating. There is a substantial difference between what a child purchases in the lunch line and what they actually eat at the table. The makers of this program have obviously forgotten that one of the chief activities at a lunch table is the trading of food. Unless they are going to monitor what is actually in a child's stomach or using biometric and food identification techniques to track lunch table trading, the information gathered by this program may be fundamentally flawed from the moment the child scans their thumb.

Lastly, the difference between this and a student id card is massive. A student id card, once the child graduates, becomes an irrelevant and no longer applicable bit of history for that now adult student. A fingerprint is forever. Additionally, this switch may pose problems for some students as some people in this world have difficulties with fingerprint readers. My own mother is one of those people. She can spend all day trying to get the biometric reader at her health club to try to register her finger on the unit to no avail. Her health club gave her a card.

The causes for fingers not working well with biometric devices are pretty hum drum--an extra dose of static, cold hands due to low blood pressure or circulation abnormalities are two of the most common causes of biometric fingerprint dysfunction. Both of these traits can be present in a child from birth. What that means is that all swiftness of the lunch line that is being promised is going to go right out the door the moment a child with cold hands due to low blood pressure gets in line.

The companies that make these devices do not talk about the issues for some with their devices. My mother, sister and I personally dread the day when everything just needs a fingerprint to open or operate from a computer, car, home, and more.

When are they gonna start checking the kids turds already to see if the kids have eaten the good ole Monsanto corn already? Geez, "Land of the naïve and home of the slave". This is all getting so ridiculous. Folks say it is a good thing...to make sure the kids eat healthy...and how do they accomplish that when food is loaded with aspartame and msg and Monsanto goodies.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
Unless they are going to monitor what is actually in a child's stomach or using biometric and food identification techniques to track lunch table trading, the information gathered by this program may be fundamentally flawed from the moment the child scans their thumb.

That technology does exist, I suppose it would be a matter of cost if a school wanted it or not for those purposes. I've stated my opinon early on in this thread, points that have been repeated here and there, and similar to yours.
Hidden Government Scanners Will Instantly Know Everything About You From 164 Feet Away

Within the next year or two, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security will instantly know everything about your body, clothes, and luggage with a new laser-based molecular scanner fired from 164 feet (50 meters) away. From traces of drugs or gun powder on your clothes to what you had for breakfast to the adrenaline level in your body—agents will be able to get any information they want without even touching you.

a reply to: BMorris

UK and Amerika are joined at the hip. That's why I said the thin edge of the wedge.
BTW, The UK was first to introduce almost universal surveillance on its citizens.
Amerika followed with drones.
Getting the picture yet?

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
The companies that make these devices do not talk about the issues for some with their devices. My mother, sister and I personally dread the day when everything just needs a fingerprint to open or operate from a computer, car, home, and more.

They won't work, or can't work because computers are basically stupid..and that makes them also dangerous. Adding biometric signatures to the portfolio has nothing to do with being an honest citizen, as you understand. They can be used and abused by anyone, and as we now know officially..especially Government.

So is there anything stopping a child going to a shop on their way to school and filling up on junk food or if they leave school at break as most do in my area going to a chip shop .

NO none of those highly paid people thought of this

originally posted by: douglas5
So is there anything stopping a child going to a shop on their way to school and filling up on junk food or if they leave school at break as most do in my area going to a chip shop .

NO none of those highly paid people thought of this

Probably not, no. But I am sure authorities have already thought that if a crime happens near the school during school hours they could ask that school for access to their fingerprint database.

a reply to: douglas5
Wow, there are still places that allow kids to walk to school and leave on breaks? Even in my small ass town back in NY, it was school policy that kids could not walk/bike to and from school, and leaving during breaks was a nogo expect for high schoolers.

a reply to: neoholographic

HEY,
DINNERLADY,
LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE!
All in all,
Its a gulag,
Not a dinner hall!

This is the most improbable use of fingerprint identification systems that I have ever come across. Let us be absolutely clear about this. The school has NO RIGHT to monitor, augment, or alter a child's diet. That is the SOLE responsibility of their parents. If the parents are not capable of educating their little darlings about food standards and nutrition, or if the child has a compulsion, then that is a matter for the social services, or in the case of compulsion, a psychologist of good repute.

At no point is it the job of a school to record what amounts to medical data about its students, save in the case of those with long term illnesses which affect attendance (to prevent ill kids and their families being victimised by law enforcement), and allergies which might affect their ability to be involved with certain activities during the school day, and could affect any emergency treatment given to that student in the event of an accident.

Other than that, the schools job is to provide a psychopath free environment conducive to learning and education, teachers who are motivated and well educated themselves, and educational material which assists with engaging students in the academic lifestyle with the hope that they will gain a desire for more information, from their experiences therein. It most certainly is not the place of any organisation, state run or private, to monitor, assess, or enforce changes to, the food a child eats.

There's always the other alternative of sending your kid to school with a cold lunch from home. My kids refused to eat the school's "hot" lunches because they said it was disgusting so I took them shopping and let them pick out things they liked and it was not a big deal at all. It wasn't easier than paying for the school's food but hey, it's what they wanted.

I would be so opposed to having my child getting fingerprinted for that purpose and apparently I'm not alone if it hasn't passed in the States; at least I've never heard of it and don't tell me it's "different" than a school I.D. which is simply a number. A fingerprint is like a tattoo, an identifying feature that will tag you for life.

a reply to: TKDRL

Things are so much more relaxed in Scotland we used to have a sweet shop at the school but it was shut down now the kids just walk to the supermarket & chip shop .

I am 6'1 and some of those KID'S are huge now compared to when i was there 30 + years ago is it the same with you 6'5 kids of 13-14 year old , feel old and small now but things are still laid back get there anyway you can ,the schools over the last 10 years went from being owned by the people /were knocked down and replaced with new building owned by company's at great cost to the tax payer over 20 years but the perimeter look's like a prison with high fences total over kill but the cost of each school $80++million plus management fees a $400 laptop can cost $4000 to them because they hire them from a private company ??? changed days ye

That's a great idea.

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
Once you get past that initial shock factor of using fingerprints (which is really convenient) it doesn't seem much different from using a student ID card.

Until the finger prints are coupled with a photograph of the student and their details and covertly collected for storage on police or central databases so you no longer have to commit a crime to be stored on the system.

What about when parents start getting fined for not feeding them healthy enough food?

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
I am surprised some of you don't cry about giving kids a first name and last name (ID) that they grow up with the rest of their lives. God forbid a school tracks your kid by their first and last name.

Inflammatory statements and pointless comparisons. You don't seem to grasp why some people wouldn't want their children to have to submit biometric data so their diets are tracked because you are a percentage of the population who figures you have nothing to hide so whats the big deal and you know what, thats fine, for you.

Others, those who have closely studied history and the oppression and tyranny that has risen up in nations once "free" understand the cumilitive effect that things like this have on one's overall freedom, personal liberty and privacy. You will find that at some point, your passive attitude will subside as the government crosses your own personal line in the sand with some new future policy and by the time you care, it will almost certainly be too late to do anything about it.

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
I don't see the big deal about this.

Its no different from having a student ID card with a unique number on it. Instead of spending money on new cards every year, and replacement cards when they are lost or damaged, using a fingerprint is the next best thing to a unique ID.

As for tracking their diet, I don't see the harm in gaining info that could better assist the student's health in the future.

On the surface, when you frequent a conspiracy forum, it all seems like a bad idea because you have a specific train of thought. Once you get past that initial shock factor of using fingerprints (which is really convenient) it doesn't seem much different from using a student ID card.

Regards,
Devil's advocate

Tracking their diet becomes tracking their health becomes tracking their movements becomes tracking their environment becomes tracking their lives becomes ...

When will it become to much tracking for you?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
really...far out...home schooling is looking better and better everyday

You're not yet??

I'm sorry if that sounds flippant, but I hear words to that effect way to much to take seriously anymore. If you think it's sounding better and better, you should have already started homeschooling. And then not have the need to make the comment.