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Man + Suicide + Knife = Police/SWAT + Snipers + MRAP + Murder

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posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: semperfortis
a reply to: projectvxn

Still your assessment is exact and wading through the BS, a knife wielder gets shot every time..


It is not so much the fact that it's better to shoot somebody wielding a knife but the manner in which it is done.

For the last 2 hours I have been looking at "knife wielding lunatics" vs "police officers" on YouTube and I'll spare you the video"s but it's pretty save to conclude:

In America, wielding a knife at an officers will get you an average of 10 to 12 bulletholes.(and handcuves afterward..lol)

I think that's a bit excessive. And I'm sorry to say that America seems to be the only place in the world where this seems to be standard procedure.

Peace




posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: operation mindcrime

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'm confused here..

So you don't mind someone dieing..

Just the number of rounds it takes to do it?



Keep in mind police are trained to fire CENTER MASS and not stop until the threat is eliminated

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: semperfortis

I can honestly say if I was in that situation I would not have fired AFTER I saw him drop.
Without a shadow of a doubt! What that officer did was beyond excessive.

Now if he got up or came after me or someone else after that, then open season!



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: AnteBellum

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Most will SAY that..

No fault to you

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: semperfortis

No I'm talking about the difference between shooting to kill (which 12 rounds will probably do) or shoot to incapacitate.


police are trained to fire CENTER MASS and not stop until the threat is eliminated


Neutralized sounds so much better....

Why would a cop choose to empty his entire gun center mass when the option is there to first shoot....not center mass?

Maybe police are trained wrong?

Peace



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: operation mindcrime

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

There is NO training that is effective/done or in COMMON sense, in "shooting to incapacitate".. The very idea is ludicrous... You shoot to stop the threat as quickly and efficiently as possible. If that means emptying my mag into a subject, I will every time and then reload just in case..

These thoughts of shooting to wound, or incapacitate are all wonderful fairy tales by those with NO combat or street violence experience at all... Some will say they have fought HUGE fights and been in more gun fights than Jason Bourne, but again, talk is cheap and easy..

The simple FACT is that no one here, except those with TRUE experience, have any idea. And those with TRUE experience will tell you there is NO shooting to incapacitate..

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: semperfortis

You shoot to stop the threat as quickly and efficiently as possible


I'm sorry but this seems more like something you tell soldiers fighting in a warzone.

I'm from an other corner of the world (The netherlands) and we have mentally instable people here aswell. When police are called, they are called to help resolve the situation and not eliminate threats!!

I'm sorry I have to link you a dutch article but this happened last August here..

Police shoot man with knife

Translated: A guy called 911 because he was desperate and treathened to hurt himself. When the police arrived the man came running outside and threatened the cops with a knife. They had no other alternative to shoot the man in the leg and he has been taken into custody....

As a matter of fact I believe that in the history of my country no cop has ever emptied his entire gun on a suspect. It's always a shot to the leg....

But since you guys have the most experience with violence you probably know best...

Peace


edit on 13-9-2014 by operation mindcrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn I will believe my instructors, the various studies done on close combat


what has 'close combat' got to do with anything in the OP? your militaristic mindset is showing (your avatar is also a clue)



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: operation mindcrime

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I can link you HUNDREDS of incidents where a person was shot multiple times and continued on fighting.. Proves NOTHING...

Simple fact

If you have never been there, and I mean in reality not keyboard commando style, you have no idea.

Also a fact

I will never be able to sway the cop haters looking for justification for a hate that fills and corrupts their very souls.. Most because they got a ticket. Most are never truthful on here anyway.

Another fact

Comparing other countries, while an oft used tactic on ATS, means absolutely zero as the cultures are completely different..

So I leave you with those facts

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: semperfortis

Why so hostile? I only showed you that your claim of "These thoughts of shooting to wound, or incapacitate are all wonderful fairy tales by those with NO combat or street violence experience at al" was incorrect because it is common practice with our police force.


I will never be able to sway the cop haters looking for justification for a hate that fills and corrupts their very souls.. Most because they got a ticket. Most are never truthful on here anyway.


Starting with insults is also very bad character and something I wouldn't expect from you. Why would I be a "cop hater"?
As a matter of fact, the police really is my best friend and that goes for most people where I come from.


Comparing other countries, while an oft used tactic on ATS, means absolutely zero as the cultures are completely different..


Hmmm...I can only say that after watching the video in the OP our police force would have handled the situation very different. Is that a difference in culture, mentality or training?

Peace



edit on 13-9-2014 by operation mindcrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: operation mindcrime

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'm not sure where you get I'm hostile.. Sorry if you read it wrong..

I simply posted facts

I directed nothing at anyone, you included, just general facts that can be substantiated by any thinking person..

If some of what I posted felt personal, it was not intentional. Just general facts about the general public.

Kind of like how many post general facts about police.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: semperfortis

My bad if I read that wrong. I got the impression that you were feeling attacked but that was not the purpose of my posts. I am just amazed by the fact that American police are trained to shoot center mass and not stop shooting untill the threat is neutralised.

I mean, maybe the situation over there actually calls for such measures but you have to understand that, to me, that seems like the stuff you see in movies and has nothing to do with reality. I could not imagine that somebody who serves the public is forced to approach that same public like that.

Peace



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: AnteBellum

S+F

If only the guy would've dropped the knife in the video...He came at the cop with the knife and the cop shot him. But I think unloading that many bullets is over kill. Sad



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: semperfortis

The militaristic undertone which seems to be the prevailing guide for police on how to deal with these situations has its benefits and its drawbacks.
As a benefit, greater safety for officers. I am certainly happy for that, on most occasions police have been very helpful to me and it is a dangerous job.
As a drawback though, less tolerance with dealing with life and death situations for the actors. The kill or be killed training will always favor the officers. And it should, but due to the increasing numbers of our population and the law of probability, these incidents will occur more often.

If we turn a blind eye to this, it will become a standard eventually. It needs to be addressed and all agencies should want it. The officer in the video looked upset at what he had been trained to do, as anyone in that situation would.

I know now why I could never be a police officer, I would be a liability given the current standards. I'll have to wait for an all out war before I could shoot a human or even an animal with such fear and callousness.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 06:13 PM
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This is truly disgusting. I suppose it was a quiet year in this county and they had to come up with a reason to use their new military toys or else give them back.
www.nytimes.com... reply to: AnteBellum



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: operation mindcrime




I am just amazed by the fact that American police are trained to shoot center mass and not stop shooting untill the threat is neutralised.


The reason you are taught to shoot center mass is because in a high stress situation you do not want to be trying to pin point aim for small targets that you are likely to miss.

Center mass is the largest target and therefore the one most likely to be hit in combat.




I mean, maybe the situation over there actually calls for such measures but you have to understand that, to me, that seems like the stuff you see in movies and has nothing to do with reality.


In the movies everyone get shot in the head from a mile away with ease. Good guys never miss, bad guys can't shoot to save their lives (literally) and everyone is essentially holding still while a wall of lead is coming at them.

That is NOT a real combat scenario by any means.
edit on pSat, 13 Sep 2014 18:55:12 -0500201413America/Chicago2014-09-13T18:55:12-05:0030vx9 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 07:12 PM
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originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: projectvxn I will believe my instructors, the various studies done on close combat


what has 'close combat' got to do with anything in the OP? your militaristic mindset is showing (your avatar is also a clue)


Because a man came at a police officer with a knife, within close enough quarters to warrant an immediate response. It's close combat.

Please tell me all you think you know about it, I'm curious.

If I seem militaristic it's because I am in the military. I have the training and experience of combat.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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It seems that no matter the situation, a death squad trained to murder will show up as if they are going to battle with ISIS. Calling the police is almost always hazardous to your health and well being.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: FraggleRock

That's why I don't call the cops.

Not trying to offend my police friends, but there are reasons I don't call the cops.

1. the cops that do show up aren't going to be my friends.

2. if I shoot someone I want the situation to be as calm as possible when the cops do arrive.

3. if someone is suicidal around me I don't want some trigger happy cop(and there are many) showing up to give that person what they want.

4. suicidal people need help. Not confrontation. They don't need to feel MORE hopeless. Cops do a great job of seeping all the hope out of people where ever they go.



posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

And I thought you misunderstood me,
it was me that misunderstood you!

Thank you for replying!




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