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Special Report: Moscow stifles dissent as soldiers return in coffins (Round 2)

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posted on Sep, 13 2014 @ 11:42 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Dimithae

Maybe you should try reading the entire article since it specifically deals with Russia lying to their people about how their kids were killed fighting in Ukraine when Putin has consistently stated there are no Russian troops in Ukraine.

I know it can be difficult at times so, respectfully, read the source material before giving the automatic propaganda response.

Maybe refute some of the facts in the article while you are at it.


With that said, and to specifically refute the claim you made -
Putin has told the west he has no troops in Ukraine.
Putin has told the people of Russia there are no Russian troops in Ukraine.

He lied to the west.
He lied to the Russian people.

That can result in being hit by the west while being hit from the other direction by the Russian's who lost relatives.

He backed himself into a corner.

It forces him to either continue lying to both groups, or loosing face and coming clean to one of those groups, which would mean being "found out" by both groups at the same time.


Man, you are desperate. Your sources are running thin. You try to improvise, but look like a fool in total isolation, of course, you have a couple of buddies on a payroll.
Pleasure to see you and your flock digging yourselves deeper into intellectual cess pull.




posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 12:02 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

You still have not answered my questions -

* - Are their Russian military forces inside Ukraine who are engaging Ukraine forces on behalf of the rebels?

* - Are the people complaining about dead relatives lying to the media about how and where their relative was killed?



You have the guts to ask me to answer questions while you ignore mine ?

I will give the answers if you answer the questions I asked you twice first, and you know which questions I`m talking about.

edit on 14-9-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: darkorange

Do you have anything to refute the info in the articles? All I saw was personal attacks in your post so I thought I would ask if you have anything constructive to add to the debate?



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So you cannot answer the questions then. You should have said so.

As for yours I did, in the thread dealing with that topic. This thread is about the Russians going after mothers wanting answers on their kids death while attacking media and politicians trying to get the truth out.

* - Are their Russian military forces inside Ukraine who are engaging Ukraine forces on behalf of the rebels?

* - Are the people complaining about dead relatives lying to the media about how and where their relative was killed?

If you cannot answer these 2 simple questions, then dont bother posting at all. I dont want you to drag this thread off topic by trying to bring another topic into it.

You guys do it way to often.
edit on 14-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: darkorange




With that said, I have an observation I would like to share. Your reasoning get more ridiculous by day. It's not you, it's official story is wearing thin. You are just using available supportive material which is getting hard to sell. An obvious bull crap. Your flock is getting into panic mode, no less. That's an impression I have.


And how is it ridiculous, because it doesn't show Russia as the innocent victim as you and other's still want to believe?

And you can show evident that refutes the official story, or are you just spouting out nonsense without anything to back it up?

And I already know the answer, but would love to see what you have.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: darkorange




Man, you are desperate. Your sources are running thin. You try to improvise, but look like a fool in total isolation, of course, you have a couple of buddies on a payroll.


Amazing that you call people names yet provide nothing to refute the evidence provided...care to refute the evidence, or is this just going to become...

"I am right and you are wrong although I have no evidence to back my claim I am right" kind of conversation?

Because that is exactly what you are doing.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




So you cannot answer the questions then.


That is a rhetorical question right, because if he did answer those questions he would see the truth and I believe he is scared of the truth.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 06:45 AM
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It may be so but it's no different then what most politicians do .Not trying to justify it but it is something that is quite common .Look at the Benghazi deal and look how that lie was broadcast from the highest levels of Govt. over the largest News outlets in the world . I can't say that I have heard about this other then on ATS but then I don't get out much . a reply to: Xcathdra



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 06:50 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Xcathdra




So you cannot answer the questions then.


That is a rhetorical question right, because if he did answer those questions he would see the truth and I believe he is scared of the truth.


Benefit of the doubt, etc etc etc.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 06:56 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
It may be so but it's no different then what most politicians do .Not trying to justify it but it is something that is quite common .Look at the Benghazi deal and look how that lie was broadcast from the highest levels of Govt. over the largest News outlets in the world . I can't say that I have heard about this other then on ATS but then I don't get out much . a reply to: Xcathdra



This is where you guys run off the tracks...

We are not talking about Benghazi.. We are talking about Ukraine and Russia. I really don't understand why you bring up an incident that is not related and one that puts us both on the same side. This is what I keep trying to point out to you guys yet you miss it every single time.

I have no issues criticizing my government and ho0lding them accountable when they lie / omit info etc. I don't understand why its not possible for the same to occur on the pro Russian side of the fence towards their government. You guys act as if Russia never does wrong.

In this instance im talking about what the Russian government is doing to its own people to keep the truth out of the hands of the Russian people. instead of dealing with the topic you guys start spouting crap about Benghazi and what not.

Guess what - We know our government is not telling the truth. their is an investigation underway by the appropriate House and Senate groups. It still has absolutely NOTHING to with the the topic of this thread.

Please - address the topic. Anything else is nothing more than a distraction.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 07:44 AM
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I did address the thread my first time around in that ,it could be a policy to not give details of the how and where's the soldiers were killed because of a covert operation .It could also deal with National security reasons why the families are not getting the information they would like . We see the same thing happen here in the west ie. Redacted document because of National security (911) . I wasn't defending Russia but stating a reason as to why they may not being told the truth . a reply to: Xcathdra



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: the2ofusr1

The US policy applies to special forces, not regular military units.



Absolutely not true!

Everyone the military is subject to "new orders", that may temporarily assign literally anyone to a covert task. IF they should be killed during that temporary assignment, their family will not be told anything vaguely resembling truth.


My point; no military is required to tell anyone the reality of a soldiers death. The military can simply "classify" the mission and all we can do is speculate... And that's the end of it!

So trying to build a case out of something like that is unproductive in it's best case. And rather indicative of an agenda...



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 10:15 AM
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I'm not in favor of what Russia is doing, but as others have said, our government would do the very same thing to anyone who was in the CIA and died while they were doing covert missions. Same goes for military personnel in black operations, that happen all over the world.

It's not a good thing, but don't think that Russia is the only one who has ever done it.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: tanka418

My point is you don't send thousands of soldiers on a "classified covert ops" mission. The reference is to the suggestion Russian actions in Ukraine are covert ops.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: Catacomb
I'm not in favor of what Russia is doing, but as others have said, our government would do the very same thing to anyone who was in the CIA and died while they were doing covert missions. Same goes for military personnel in black operations, that happen all over the world.

It's not a good thing, but don't think that Russia is the only one who has ever done it.


The CIA and the armed forces of the Russian Federation are not comparable. Especially when we are dealing with thousands of troops as opposed to small units.

The concept of covert would mean not being visible to satellites.
edit on 14-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So you cannot answer the questions then. You should have said so.

As for yours I did, in the thread dealing with that topic. This thread is about the Russians going after mothers wanting answers on their kids death while attacking media and politicians trying to get the truth out.

* - Are their Russian military forces inside Ukraine who are engaging Ukraine forces on behalf of the rebels?

* - Are the people complaining about dead relatives lying to the media about how and where their relative was killed?

If you cannot answer these 2 simple questions, then dont bother posting at all. I dont want you to drag this thread off topic by trying to bring another topic into it.

You guys do it way to often.


No you didn`t answer them, so why actual say you did ?

Questions asked

And I already gave an answer (see my third post in this topic), but unlike lying, reading and answering don`t seem to be your strongest points, now do they ?




edit on 14-9-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


I did answer it -
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Can we get back on this topic now? You have derailed the thread enough.

The third post in this thread is by me.
I have not lied about anything.
I answer the questions asked. Just because you dont like my answers does not mean I didnt answer them.

Maturity and critical thinking does not seem to be your strong points.

Now, are we done insulting each other like children?


* - Are their Russian military forces inside Ukraine who are engaging Ukraine forces on behalf of the rebels?

* - Are the people complaining about dead relatives lying to the media about how and where their relative was killed?
edit on 14-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I just edited it, my third post.

Your answer was not an answer to the questions, and I already have given my answer (see my third post).



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Ah, the often used "but America does this!!!!!" as some kind of defense for the invasion of Ukraine by Russian military.

Some of us understand that while we can be critical of our own countries and governments, their historical meanderings do not permit another nation to invade a country.

Comparing Russia to the US is a weak argument intended to deflect the discussion and excuse the inexcusable.



posted on Sep, 14 2014 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: tanka418

Lets make a factual distinction clear here...

The use of troops to invade another country is in no way comparable to a limited force of covert agents acting for the CIA - with a specific MILITARY TARGET in mind.

Even if this were Russia sending a small group of specialists into a country to do something nefarious, it would not be considered the same as an invasion of thousands of troops, heavy weapons and equipment, intending to fight a war in which innocent people will die.

There is a significant difference between a tight tactical unit performing a duty under covert conditions, and a military invasion of thousands of armed military men capable of endangering the lives of thousands of innocent people.

Got it now?




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