Jesus is not god for four reasons

originally posted by: paxnatus
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

VHB:
Just so, if Jesus as a human being is 'God' so say then we all are. We are no different in that we are all its expression.

No, Jesus was and is the only perfect human to have ever lived. And as many people whom think themselves perfect I have yet to encounter one or ever hear of someone whom has encountered a perfect human being.
Pax

No, he was Master Jesus "a teacher" (supposedly) come to help enlighten the human as to the ways of achieving a "Christ Consciousness" (getting to know you kumb-by-ya experience); otherwise he would simply take the advantage of a naturally born to RULE DICTATOR living above all others in SUBLIME SECRET knowledge above the rest of us SWEATY FLESHY BEASTS (just looking for the next fetid mud hole to drink from/deficate into/bathe within). Jesus never proclaimed/deemed himself "perfect"; as he knew better. You have met Jesus, and can make those judgement calls on your fellow man as pre-directed (by whom).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
The main most troubling fact is: there does not exist a "gospel attributed to the writer JESUS on or about 33 AD". This is a total boomerang to Christian theosophy but NO ONE cares or thinks this is significant.

Why would there be a Gospel of Jesus around 33 AD near the year of his death? It took a while for people to believe in Jesus and it took a while for the Christians to get settled from escaping prosecution. They would stay hidden by just talking about Jesus (Oral Tradition) and then eventually they wrote The Gospels of Jesus.

As for the documents at 150 AD, those who were prosecuting Christians were destroying documents even today were do not have the original writings of The Gospels only earlier copies.

Jesus is ONE with God The Father; even Jesus prayed when he was physical.

a reply to: vethumanbeing
A thread sure to elicit response...
Have loved the discussion and banter!
"'gods' best expression of ITSELF" ... I have surely considered this...though...not including the word 'best', when considering myself --- but...every possibility must be explored --- best to worst.
So Good To See You - VetHumanBeing!

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing
originally posted by: vethumanbeing

VHB: The main most troubling fact is: there does not exist a "gospel attributed to the writer JESUS on or about 33 AD". This is a total boomerang to Christian theosophy but NO ONE cares or thinks this is significant.

arpgme: Why would there be a Gospel of Jesus around 33 AD near the year of his death? It took a while for people to believe in Jesus and it took a while for the Christians to get settled from escaping prosecution. They would stay hidden by just talking about Jesus (Oral Tradition) and then eventually they wrote The Gospels of Jesus. As for the documents at 150 AD, those who were prosecuting Christians were destroying documents even today were do not have the original writings of The Gospels only earlier copies.
Jesus is ONE with God The Father; even Jesus prayed when he was physical.

Why wouldn't there be some gospel recorded at any point?!; at 19 Jesus was already educated in the writing and speaking of Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic languages. He never thought to write home to Mom, "hey there, uncle Joseph of Aramethea is here (Qumran) and taking me aboard ship to visit India and GRB (tin trade and all necessitates the voyage) see you in x0 years...What of it; Moses lied about the parting of the Red Sea, it was actually a field of bull rushes (flooded and turned red due to algae formation, 5 feet deep took 6 days to drain is all) at least Jesus didn't manufacture falsities. Story telling is a good thing, but its better if a scribe is on hand to take the oral tradition down (so it doesn't embellish itself over centuries). It is a noble thing that someone other than Shakespeare wrote from oral replays/memory (Francis Bacon perhaps); his plays depicting the 7 archetypal stories of human love, betrayal; everything that can go wrong--WILL in human relationships is depicted etc. Jesus was praying to God YES to get himself out of a situation wherein he was lied to about from JUMP (not included as vital information when incarnated the eventual martyrdom and an ENTIRE religion based upon his existence as reluctant as HE was at the end) happy to get many Karmic problems of the human solved in ONE LIFETIME; that was the entire mission in the first place to FORGIVE THE HUMAN or LETTING MANKIND OFF THE HOOK of the potential Hamster Wheel called Karma.

So your argument is We are God meaning us humans? and Jesus is Not God? Cause now you really have me confused can you explain what you are saying OP?

Pax

originally posted by: paxnatus
So your argument is We are God meaning us humans? and Jesus is Not God? Cause now you really have me confused can you explain what you are saying OP?

Pax

You will not get any arguments out of me. Jesus is just as much god expression as you or I am, some of us are not working hard enough to understand our potential is all, he may have had a leg up (lied to) is all. Jesus is not God; how could he be? even what you call a God form doesn't see itself that way AT ALL (reason for allowance of creative possibilites) as it is a pure energy form and not at all physical. Humans for whatever reason want/desire to see form in the unseen just to make sense of their physical existence (thinking the non physical is just the same; which is not). This business regarding Jesus's mission to absolve the human being of "SINS" is as HE takes them upon himself is noble. The point was to remove the old cycle of Karmic sticky buildup (sins re-examined in the next lifetime) as a 'new' better archetype. I don't think it worked; in fact failed miserably. Karma is alive and well and occurring faster than ever, and if you are paying attention its happening within the same lifetimes for some. INSTANT.

originally posted by: WanDash
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing
A thread sure to elicit response...
Have loved the discussion and banter!
"'gods' best expression of ITSELF" ... I have surely considered this...though...not including the word 'best', when considering myself --- but...every possibility must be explored --- best to worst.
So Good To See You - VetHumanBeing!

I wouldn't think anything less of god than to be at the LEAST a memorable 'serial killer' would you? Who sets those standards of excellence? Mohammed? (Islam) wonderful idea to be warped and played with ideologically (kill everyone that doesn't obey Shiria law). Jesus is the ONLY belief system or live in eternal hell damnation (who invented that scenario). One needs to relish the best and worst inclinations we (as gods children) hold (does one morally act upon the impulse is all). Free Will (we are allowed); that same old conundrum. If there is no irony; then its not relevant to the discussion because the fate or existence of a God depends upon we alone; as its creation to hold or proclaim to exist in our imagination (its up to us to make it up or it definitely will not ever exist). Good to hear from you as well! WanDash.

a reply to: paxnatus

He is saying he is going to re-write everything so it suits his desire not to be accountable to anyone, ...ever.

So, everything that has ever been written is going to now be re-written by him so it conforms to the above.

This is what you see people doing these days, if they don't like the rules, they either re write them, or ignore them like our current leadership. It isn't just a matter of religious beliefs, or belief in God, Christ, and the bible, it spills over onto everything and everyone. Pride dictates that Harry Reid is way above everyone else so he sic's the BLM, IRS, and Obama's hounds upon whoever gets in his way. Same attitude applies to 9/10's of the planet.

The world is becoming as it was before that big deluge, full of nasty spitting, and self serving creatures who seek only for themselves and will gladly kill others that even try to expose them.

Earth: The nightmare planet. A place where people are now rejecting all the virtues of good, and replacing them with the virtues of self and darkness.
And our own government with it's obedient state media have lost all concern for anything honest and truthful, or conforming to any code of morality, ethical integrity, or anything else that would be desirable to see in a healthy and virtuous society, because those things would stop their hold on personal power and glory they think they deserve.

The inevitable reality of a "do as thou wilt" society.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed
I so want to reply to this but will wait to see if Pax responds.

a reply to: Titaniumberry

Our basis is the Bible. Jesus is God and He himself declared that he is the "I AM", the God of Moses. Thus, this is the very reason why he was crucified by the Jews because of this blasphemy.

Could you please give me the biblical scriptures that says that Jesus is God and that He Himself declares this?
Also are you aware of the written records that reveal that Jesus was never charged or convicted of the accusation that He was God? Are you aware that the penalty of claiming to be the son of God was to be stoned and not crucified? And are you aware that Jesus stood trial on the charge of His claim to be the Christ (Messiah)? Not God but God's only begotten Son. Jesus stood trial in the hall of hewed stones and the votes were cast. Out of the 71 votes of the Sanhedrin 40 votes were in Jesus' favor while 31 votes were not in His favor. Jesus was acquitted from the Jewish courts and then stood trial and convicted by Roman decree of only one man.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Titaniumberry

Our basis is the Bible. Jesus is God and He himself declared that he is the "I AM", the God of Moses. Thus, this is the very reason why he was crucified by the Jews because of this blasphemy.

Could you please give me the biblical scriptures that says that Jesus is God and that He Himself declares this?
Also are you aware of the written records that reveal that Jesus was never charged or convicted of the accusation that He was God? Are you aware that the penalty of claiming to be the son of God was to be stoned and not crucified? And are you aware that Jesus stood trial on the charge of His claim to be the Christ (Messiah)? Not God but God's only begotten Son. Jesus stood trial in the hall of hewed stones and the votes were cast. Out of the 71 votes of the Sanhedrin 40 votes were in Jesus' favor while 31 votes were not in His favor. Jesus was acquitted from the Jewish courts and then stood trial and convicted by Roman decree of only one man.

Pilot the obvious Roman scapegoat and Herod (Jewish overlord of the area); not taking this minor foul up too seriously, btw Joseph Sr. worked for him; Herod as a bridge builder (mason) in Jerusalem. Jesus only parroted accusations; the closest came to admittance of anything odd was the reference to a "Kingdom" beyond earth. As a 33 year old unmarried MAN without any progeny or a source of income nor place of residence that is taxable, could have been legally (IN THAT TIME PERIOD/PLACE) be stoned to death under some Jewish archaic laws. Gods only begotten son to be made example of for the purpose of extinguishing the human of Karma/ or abolishment of all prior and future SINS (this did not work).

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
1. Jesus; just as Mohammed, Buddha is a stepped down version of an energyform encompassing the 9 dimensions (Kether to Malkuth) Qabala version of spirit becoming a material form as an "insert" personality to change an archetype/eon.
2. There is no such thing as 'god' as a 'being' it is a field of energy comprised of a series of 1s and 0s, OR simply information.
3. You are yourselves 'gods' best expression of ITSELF; as much as you deny it; it is the truth you are its better expression as visualized as an INDIVIDUAL; what other point was to be made except you fathom/realize who you are? GOD AS YOU ENCOMBRANCE.
4. Walt Disney or Shakespeare would fit the human into a shape that made sense, cartoonish or poetic, you make that determination.

How exacting can you get?! Clear & precise...Walt had a field day, some people just love being cartoons of themselves...

Indeed, what other 'point' could there be?!...with interest, pixellation only good when you squint...
Denial builds walls that only they, that deny, can topple...since they built them...perfection is where you are right now...

A99

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

The world is becoming as it was before that big deluge

No, its actually closer to the expulsion from Eden. Mankind was truly awakened after tasting of the tree. They didnt like Yehovah; the destroyer/Deimurge

Earth: The nightmare planet. A place where people are now rejecting all the virtues of good, and replacing them with the virtues of self and darkness

And yet a majority would say that we are leaving the Kali Yuga stage

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
1. Jesus; just as Mohammed, Buddha is a stepped down version of an energyform encompassing the 9 dimensions (Kether to Malkuth) Qabala version of spirit becoming a material form as an "insert" personality to change an archetype/eon.
2. There is no such thing as 'god' as a 'being' it is a field of energy comprised of a series of 1s and 0s, OR simply information.
3. You are yourselves 'gods' best expression of ITSELF; as much as you deny it; it is the truth you are its better expression as visualized as an INDIVIDUAL; what other point was to be made except you fathom/realize who you are? GOD AS YOU ENCOMBRANCE.
4. Walt Disney or Shakespeare would fit the human into a shape that made sense, cartoonish or poetic, you make that determination.

akushla99 How exacting can you get?! Clear & precise...Walt had a field day, some people just love being cartoons of themselves...
Indeed, what other 'point' could there be?!...with interest, pixellation only good when you squint...
Denial builds walls that only they, that deny, can topple...since they built them...perfection is where you are right now...
A99

It was a broad band thrown lasso; trying to suck potential idiots into a fakery; Walt created something out of celluloid that resonated to the child/creator existing within us all; BRILLIANT. Squinting at bullet points makes (or through a rifle scope) seems to make a clearer definition, 2 point perspective? Who is looking through that that eyeglass or sharing the same perspective with you. Denial is something that involves a stasis of "not being open to newer/better ideas". Though am dragged kicking and screaming into the "observation" we are ALL CORRECT or right within our individual perspectives as THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER (puzzle parts to be combined to make sense of the whole); no denial exists BUT IF BELIEVED so one then is its own causal of its own premature death of ITS intellect. Perfection should/cannot not be achieved; as once done, no more looking or seeking EVER will exist/continued quest. There must always be a question therefor UNANSWERED; (Italian blue marble intact?). Perfection? Can say this: "When is Now?", or "Its Now Again" perfection is living in the moment and understanding it. You you you; understanding the game we play. That of realizing what the 3d actually is.

"Ye of little faith:" You can't make stuff like this up. (Video at link)

Yearly on the first weekend of May (on Saturday) and on the 19th September amazement spreads through Naples Cathedral. There one can marvel at how the blood of the beheaded San Gennaro liquefies in its ampoule. The day of the blood miracle is an important feast for Naples and the people celebrate it accordingly.

The Blood Miracle of St. Januarius
www.ucatholic.com...



Read'em and weep children.

a reply to: vethumanbeing


I like your signature, but my God is not an atheist and He let's me laugh. I may get b*tch slapped for it, but it is worth it.

Rich Mullins, a well-know Christian recording artist. (R.I.P.) said: "Good taste is the enemy of art." Can you wrap your mind around that? At the beginning of this song he talks about how he sees God. If ever I heard a man talk about God as one who knows Him as a WILD MAN Rich would be the one who "gets" God.

www.youtube.com...

Peace and Love

and I hope you laugh, too.



(BTW God proofread my post and gave it HIS stamp of approval).

originally posted by: sad_eyed_lady
a reply to: vethumanbeing


I like your signature, but my God is not an atheist and He let's me laugh. I may get b*tch slapped for it, but it is worth it.

Rich Mullins, a well-know Christian recording artist. (R.I.P.) said: "Good taste is the enemy of art." Can you wrap your mind around that? At the beginning of this song he talks about how he sees God. If ever I heard a man talk about God as one who knows Him as a WILD MAN Rich would be the one who "gets" God.

www.youtube.com...

Peace and Love
and I hope you laugh, too.
(BTW God proofread my post and gave it HIS stamp of approval).

No one ever said there was one god only available to all. As I see it you design your individual idea of 'god' to suit your own sensibilities (that being what rings truth). Personally without us (humans) acknowledging a higher creator being, IT would not exist at all, not without our input or more interesting 'our creation of it out of our own minds' (we created God out of necessity; do not want to fathom/contemplate we are on our own oar less, rudderless with no direction). I like this quote "Good taste is the enemy of art"; but is God Art? I would say so as we are the most imaginative of apes make a theory manifest into 'something tangible' without US; God would NOT exist (not the other way around). George Carlin got the God concept as well. Thank you for your reply and bringing attention to Rich Mullins. Your moniker is priceless; we all incarnate for a purpose and one takes a path; hard, soft, etc. and why not take a path of love over hatred, is one easier than the other? God Proof read and stamped your post? hey! outstanding!

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

No one ever said there was one god only available to all. As I see it you design your individual idea of 'god' to suit your own sensibilities (that being what rings truth). Personally without us (humans) acknowledging a higher creator being, IT would not exist at all, not without our input or more interesting 'our creation of it out of our own minds' (we created God out of necessity; do not want to fathom/contemplate we are on our own oar less, rudderless with no direction). I like this quote "Good taste is the enemy of art"; but is God Art? I would say so as we are the most imaginative of apes make a theory manifest into 'something tangible' without us God would not exist (not the other way around). George Carlin got the God concept as well. Thank you for your reply and bringing attention to Rich Mullins.

What you say is exactly the opposite of the true message of good news. The world and many people do indeed make their own version of Christ and God, but this is not the direction Christ gave, nor is it in any way acceptable for anyone to do. When people do this, they expose their own desire to not be accountable to any ruler except themselves, and this shows that people will forgo virtue for serving themselves which is man's epitaph anyways. unless they take it upon themselves to break free from this bondage of immorality. It is still a choice.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing

VHB No one ever said there was one god only available to all. As I see it you design your individual idea of 'god' to suit your own sensibilities (that being what rings truth). Personally without us (humans) acknowledging a higher creator being, IT would not exist at all, not without our input or more interesting 'our creation of it out of our own minds' (we created God out of necessity; do not want to fathom/contemplate we are on our own; oar less, rudderless with no direction). I like this quote "Good taste is the enemy of art"; but is God Art? I would say so as we are the most imaginative of apes make a theory manifest into 'something tangible' without us God would not exist (not the other way around). George Carlin got the God concept as well. Thank you for your reply and bringing attention to Rich Mullins.

No Corruption Allowed What you say is exactly the opposite of the true message of good news. The world and many people do indeed make their own version of Christ and God, but this is not the direction Christ gave, nor is it in any way acceptable for anyone to do. When people do this, they expose their own desire to not be accountable to any ruler except themselves, and this shows that people will forgo virtue for serving themselves which is man's epitaph anyways. unless they take it upon themselves to break free from this bondage of immorality. It is still a choice.

Thank you for your reply No Corruption Allowed. What was the precise direction that Jesus gave us to follow (not leaving any epistles in his name; left it to others to warp or bastardize his message). You missed my point and this did not include Jesus at all; its about a God aspect and who or what determines its existence as being a true trustworthy entity; to be taken on FAITH ALONE. Someone has to 'mirror' recognize/record a thought regarding AN ABSTRACT (a god in existence proclaims itself). Jesus was a human whether you like it or not and for whatever reason failed to document his own being in a time period that historically kept very good records, taxes, human head counts etc. I do not see any reason his physical existence (OR NOT) is or has to be so steeped in mystery (where are the letters to his mother Mary regarding his travels). I have no desire to be accountable to a ruler as I don't recognize overlords usurping/taking my fate and destiny from my own hands (I agreed to incarnate for my own selfish reasons). What is the problem of 'one being ones own master'? its my life; or as Dante would say 'taking on the buffet of options for (hopefully) seeing a progression of my soul in the true afterlife'. Immorality just as morality is a given; completely allowed; you for whatever reason are proclaiming a 'judgement' regarding those individuals decisions; not up to you or even God to cry foul (those decisions are arbitrary, and inexorably linked to that individuals Karma future or past) have you thought about your own?

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: sad_eyed_lady
a reply to: vethumanbeing


I like your signature, but my God is not an atheist and He let's me laugh. I may get b*tch slapped for it, but it is worth it.

Rich Mullins, a well-know Christian recording artist. (R.I.P.) said: "Good taste is the enemy of art." Can you wrap your mind around that? At the beginning of this song he talks about how he sees God. If ever I heard a man talk about God as one who knows Him as a WILD MAN Rich would be the one who "gets" God.

www.youtube.com...

Peace and Love
and I hope you laugh, too.
(BTW God proofread my post and gave it HIS stamp of approval).

No one ever said there was one god only available to all. As I see it you design your individual idea of 'god' to suit your own sensibilities (that being what rings truth). Personally without us (humans) acknowledging a higher creator being, IT would not exist at all, not without our input or more interesting 'our creation of it out of our own minds' (we created God out of necessity; do not want to fathom/contemplate we are on our own oar less, rudderless with no direction). I like this quote "Good taste is the enemy of art"; but is God Art? I would say so as we are the most imaginative of apes make a theory manifest into 'something tangible' without US; God would NOT exist (not the other way around). George Carlin got the God concept as well. Thank you for your reply and bringing attention to Rich Mullins. Your moniker is priceless; we all incarnate for a purpose and one takes a path; hard, soft, etc. and why not take a path of love over hatred, is one easier than the other? God Proof read and stamped your post? hey! outstanding!

Thanks for your intelligent and thoughtful post. Must add that Gordon Lightfoot rocks my world.