a reply to: deadeyedick
A long response. My apologies to everyone for it
This is a tough question - My responses are directed at you but im not accusing you of doing anything. If I use the term you its for conversational
purposes and not accusations.
First and foremost a citizens ability to get involved will depend on what state they are in. In my state of MO there is no duty to retreat for
civilians. In a state like Michigan the civilian has a duty to retreat and if they fail to do so they can actually be charged with a crime.
Secondly the ability of a citizen to detain / arrest will also vary from state to state. Based on my experience if a civilian detains and individual
and is wrong, they can be charged with a crime and sued. In other states civilians can only detain / arrest for felonies.
Entering the US illegally the first time is a misdemeanor offense and after that it moves into the felony area. If you come across a group of
individuals who do not speak English how do you know they are here illegally? In order to determine that you would need to detain and ID every single
person present. The US does not have an official language so the fact they do not speak English is not enough to go on.
Having groups of armed citizens randomly detaining people and demanding ID is no more appropriate than if law enforcement went around randomly
demanding ID's from people. I know for a fact people don't care much for law enforcement so if you don't want the police doing that to you why is it
acceptable for you to do it to others? Not to mention its illegal and is essentially how Nazi Germany operated.
Once you notify law enforcement your responsibility is essentially over with. There is nothing wrong with calling them back to give updates or let
them know if things are escalating etc. How they arrive and what they do is their responsibility. What you or someone else might perceive as a crime
might in actuality not be one. What you think should be a code 3 response from police might not be to their agency.
Getting involved after you call the police again depends on the state you are in. Some states allow it and some states do not. It depends on the
crime and the state and the details of the incident in question.
Active Shooters - In a scenario like this I would say you have every right to end that persons life to prevent the individual from killing others from
the moment you see it. Even in states where you have a duty to retreat protection of 3rd parties can be taken into consideration. In a case like you
described the shooter is an imminent danger to the public and the threat must be stopped. In this type of scenario, even the US Supreme Court ruling
on use of deadly force on a fleeing felon (Tenn vs. Garner) is out the window.
A person is not guilty of violating a law until the court / jury finds them guilty. As with all other laws in the US, one must look at the totality of
circumstances for each individual case. Just because 20 Mexicans cross into the US illegally does not mean all 20 have the same story and reasons for
doing what they did. Some will have legitimate reasons for asylum while others will not.
Personally speaking I am in favor of legal immigration. If you come here illegally then you go to the back of the line for lawful immigration and you
get shipped back to your country of origin. If the federal government is not going to do its job on the border then those border states have every
right to use their state guard units to prevent the illegal entry.
Based on how this administration has acted thus far in this area, I am all for removing Holder and Obama and the head of DHS and charging them with
crimes. They are failing to do their job while intentionally making the situation worse by their non enforcement of immigration laws and misusing
government resources in an effort to assist instead of deter the criminal activity.
I would go so far as saying the federal government is acting like a "coyote", actively assisting in bringing illegals into this country and then
assisting by blocking application of the laws.
Hence the reason we need to get out house in order first before dealing with the border. If the system is not working then it does not matter how
many people you have guarding the border. Once they are caught they are not being sent back.
*** You must check the state you reside in and look at their laws regarding the information in this post. Laws vary state to state. A person may
take an action that is lawful in state A but be illegal in state B. Do your due diligence and check the laws of your area.***
edit on 13-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)