Huge Number Of Americans Do Not Want Atheist In-Laws...

a reply to: Cuervo
Thanks. That was what I assumed you were getting at, but I just wasn't sure if that was the case.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
Yea that's real mature to degrade a whole country of people that do not view things the same as you.

I don't view things the same as them. I don't eat at McDonald's, I believe the Earth revolves around the sun, I don't believe the story of Noah is literal, etc. And I didn't degrade a whole country. Just stating facts. Many people aren't very smart. So, why should I care what they think?

I have noticed you take no limitations in what you will use to besmirch someone.

Well, thanks for noticing. I can't say I've noticed anything about you.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
choosing a path here that says their is no spiritual chain of command does not necessarily mean you will not have a whole different set of rules to follow if there is something beyond the flesh.

Being an atheist does NOT mean a person believes there is no spiritual chain of command or that there's nothing beyond the flesh. There are spiritual atheists who believe in life after death, in fact. I'm not sure you know what an atheist is.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

If you believe in spirits and life after death and not god then that just sounds like someone mad at whoever is in charge.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

If you believe in spirits and life after death and not god then that just sounds like someone mad at whoever is in charge.

Not at all. Buddhism is a non-theistic religion (though many would argue it's not even a religion but a philosophy). Not every religion requires a god to have beliefs. I lived with the Navajo for many years and their traditional beliefs were not theistic. They may offer up a corn pollen prayer to the sun at dawn but that is in honor of the sun being the giver of all life and not as a deity per se. They'd also utter a prayer when slitting the throat of a sheep and offering up thanks and gratitude directly to that particular sheep for the sacrifice of its life. In fact, my particular flavor of atheism was viewed as most closely resembling the Navajo concept of Hozho to the extent where my being a bilagaana was often forgotten and I was allowed treatment by medicine men (not the plastic kind but the old guy living in a shack and getting paid with sheep kind).

Spirituality does not require a god. Period.

a reply to: WhiteAlice
No but beliefs like that fall short in explaining how or why they we here. Even the indians had chiefs that ran things. It tends to explain most of spirituality but not acknowledge that this is not all chance. Everything we have here is ran by someone or put in motion by someone. Why would the spiritual side be any different in that respect?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
If you believe in spirits and life after death and not god then that just sounds like someone mad at whoever is in charge.

Think what you will. My point is that atheist means one thing. A person who doesn't hold a belief in God. If "someone" is mad at God, they're not an atheist, are they?

I didn't say I believe in spirits, I said being an atheist doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. That's all.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
No but beliefs like that fall short in explaining how or why they we here.

No one knows how or why we are here. There is only belief.

Everything we have here is ran by someone or put in motion by someone. Why would the spiritual side be any different in that respect?

Why would it be the same?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: WhiteAlice
No but beliefs like that fall short in explaining how or why they we here. Even the indians had chiefs that ran things. It tends to explain most of spirituality but not acknowledge that this is not all chance. Everything we have here is ran by someone or put in motion by someone. Why would the spiritual side be any different in that respect?

First of all, I think that you misunderstand a few things about hierarchy and tribes. Please allow me to correct you on a few things. The Navajo did not have "chiefs". It was actually a matriarchal society sans "chief" where the grandmother was pretty much the head of the families and clans. No one was in charge of the tribe in its entirety or even large portions. It's actually part of the reason why there were so many issues with treaties being made with the Navajo back in the 19th century. The US government would enter into a treaty with one man but that treaty would not necessarily being binding with his entire family, clan, and certainly not the tribe. It was a total cultural misinterpretation. Many tribes did not have "chiefs" though many had war leaders, who basically gravitated into those positions by circumstance. Cochise (Apache) would be a closely related to the Navajo tribe example of such an individual. In terms of spirituality, the medicine men would provide spiritual advise, first and foremost, as a kind of oracle and doctor.

Again though, this is one tribe and not all Native American tribes are the same in societal make up, function, or spiritual beliefs. It's a very gross mistake to presume that all tribes are the same. And they are not from India. A good number, including my daughter, get a little annoyed about being called "Indians".

Is there a reason for why we are here? A lot of these beliefs that you seems to be dismissing as "falling short" have a far more enveloping spirituality than simply declaring supremacy to humanity. In that sense, there is no necessary meaning to why humanity is here because it simply is here and any function of humanity is to live in balance with the world around them. If humanity is not special or unique, then why would that warrant an explanation for why we are here?

It has to do with the personality type people dread when they hear that someone proclaims themself to be ______ .

Do Christians dread an atheist in-law? Sure. Do Atheists dread having a 'believer' in their midst? of course. It's because they don't want to listen to someone drone on while the Turkey is being carved. You know, the one who holds the stuffing and won't put it on their plate OR pass it, while they drone on and on about how logical and systematic their new belief-system is.

Who do they all dread?

The one at the end of the table, Ken's new wife, "Kay", who drones on and on about AA....

a reply to: tovenar

lol, well, out on the rez, they took the thanksgiving day prayer to a whole new level. 25 minute long prayer. No joke. Everything and everybody covered for the gratitude over the foods that were about to be eaten. I don't complain about a quick prayer before dinner after that, lol.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Klassified Some people see it as just another club and want no part of clubs. I think athiest probally feel a certain good feeling when surrounded by other members of their club just like other members of different clubs. We see the club side of non belief in everyday life by athiest joining together for a cause or movement.

A club? Really?

Actually I go throughout my day not even asking people which "club" they are in. I really don't care. I look at a person for their character, not what "club" they belong to.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
Actually I go throughout my day not even asking people which "club" they are in. I really don't care. I look at a person for their character, not what "club" they belong to.

Same here. I have very close relationships with people of all "clubs", because there are "good" and "bad" in every one. Grouping them all together and making assumptions about them is just closed-minded.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
Actually I go throughout my day not even asking people which "club" they are in. I really don't care. I look at a person for their character, not what "club" they belong to.

Same here. I have very close relationships with people of all "clubs", because there are "good" and "bad" in every one. Grouping them all together and making assumptions about them is just closed-minded.

It's actually the main reason I left religion. I've always felt that being in an "exclusive club" was just a reason to reject others. In other words: we are all human, regardless of what we believe. So what would give me the right to judge someone else based upon the beliefs that they were raised...(ie: "you're going to hell because you don't believe the same things I do.) It's just silly in my opinion.

As far as spiritual atheists and buddhists: you can count me amongst them. I do feel that all living things share a connection...how, why and what kind of a connection I don't know...thus I'm trying to explore this in my personal life.