Royal Bank Of Scotland To Relocate To London If A " Yes " Vote.

a reply to: Freeborn

The EU issue is an interesting one. I just found th is about it, although I must warn that it's from the Daily Telegraph, which is vehemently pro-Union.

It always irks me when I see people within the UK, Scots, Welsh etc, talk about their hatred of the English.

Seriously? Why? I hear all the time whining about events that happened hundreds of years ago, which is pretty damned lame to blame on current generations. They also seem to think all English folk are somehow to blame for the ills of themselves and their ancestors. Again, how is this remotely relevant today? It's so petty and mindless it beggars belief.

I mean, yeah, all us Englishmen live in castles, built off the backs and robbery of the Scots and Welsh. We all drive Rollers and eat off golden platters, tax for us English is 2p in the pound and our caviar is heavily discounted.

If, by hatred of the English, they mean the government, then count me in, along with countless others, but stop with the whole "hatred of the English" nonsense, it just makes you look like some clueless idiot.

Edit to add - to keep the rant semi-relevant: Isn't RBS majority owned by the government anyway? If that is still the case then the Scots would do well to sever all connections to it with immediate effect and thus save themselves from any further financial bailouts and liabilities!

originally posted by: Britguy
It always irks me when I see people within the UK, Scots, Welsh etc, talk about their hatred of the English.

Seriously? Why? I hear all the time whining about events that happened hundreds of years ago, which is pretty damned lame to blame on current generations. They also seem to think all English folk are somehow to blame for the ills of themselves and their ancestors. Again, how is this remotely relevant today? It's so petty and mindless it beggars belief.

I mean, yeah, all us Englishmen live in castles, built off the backs and robbery of the Scots and Welsh. We all drive Rollers and eat off golden platters, tax for us English is 2p in the pound and our caviar is heavily discounted.

If, by hatred of the English, they mean the government, then count me in, along with countless others, but stop with the whole "hatred of the English" nonsense, it just makes you look like some clueless idiot.

In the case of the Scots they are still rather... irked... with Margaret Thatcher after she used Scotland as a test bed for the Poll Tax. It was unfair.

originally posted by: paraphi

It would be in the interests of the rUK not to compromise their well being to support an newly independent Scotland. Why support the competition

LOL!! it does appear that an 'independent' Scotland is relying on

the total support of the countries it seems hell bent on severing

its connections from like ....

# Keeping the currency and therefor the Bank of Eng.

# Keeping the Queen as head of state

# Staying in the eu et al

Makes you wonder why they want independence?

Its like them going on a 'Dutch' date but not willing to pay their share.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

This is an example of how in my mind there are just far too many unknowns to justify a 'Yes' vote.

Its just a massive leap in the dark unknown.
I'm a gambler and like to weigh the odds up before deciding if the reward is worth the risk - and the odds just don't stack up.
This isn't about gambling a few quid, its about a whole nations future - a massive risk and gamble.

I could list all the doubts and uncertainties but surely everyone's aware of them now.

All that remains is for Scotland to decide for itself, and that's how it should be.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
In the case of the Scots they are still rather... irked... with Margaret Thatcher after she used Scotland as a test bed for the Poll Tax. It was unfair.

People should move on. Thatcher was a quarter of a century ago. Only those wanting excuses keep such a clammy hold of the past.

Regards

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Britguy
It always irks me when I see people within the UK, Scots, Welsh etc, talk about their hatred of the English.

Seriously? Why? I hear all the time whining about events that happened hundreds of years ago, which is pretty damned lame to blame on current generations. They also seem to think all English folk are somehow to blame for the ills of themselves and their ancestors. Again, how is this remotely relevant today? It's so petty and mindless it beggars belief.

I mean, yeah, all us Englishmen live in castles, built off the backs and robbery of the Scots and Welsh. We all drive Rollers and eat off golden platters, tax for us English is 2p in the pound and our caviar is heavily discounted.

If, by hatred of the English, they mean the government, then count me in, along with countless others, but stop with the whole "hatred of the English" nonsense, it just makes you look like some clueless idiot.

In the case of the Scots they are still rather... irked... with Margaret Thatcher after she used Scotland as a test bed for the Poll Tax. It was unfair.

And Illegal.. Treaty of Union Article XVIII, Taxes in England and Scotland to be the same. The Poll Tax (1989) illegally introduced a tax on Scotland that was not applicable in England.
We have no Union as Thatcher Broke it.
Anyway, it has been Broken many Times by Westminster in the past, but just seems to have been brushed under the rug.
EDIT.
Whilst i'm on the subject of Westminster Breaching the Treaty of Union i might as well post some examples..

Since 1707 there have been numerous breaches of this Treaty, which lead to the conclusion that the treaty has become void and invalid.

Article VI, protected Scots agriculture from overseas competition. Yet this was initially broken in 1846 with the Repeal of the Corn Laws.
Article VII, "the same excises upon all excisable liquors". Excise duty discriminates against Scotch whisky and favours imported wines and beer.
Article VIII, equality for export of cured fish. However, the British Govt sacrificed the largest part of Scots European trade, that with Russia, to satisfy English Anti-Bolshevism (c1918).
Article XVI, preservation of a Scottish Mint. Now abolished, with the monopolistic position of The Bank of England having supremacy over Scots banks.
Article XXII, rights of Scottish Royal Burghs to remain. Abolished under local Govt reform in the 1920s and 1970s.
Introduction of the English Law of Treason and the removal of Jacobites to stand trial in England.

originally posted by: Freeborn

This is an example of how in my mind there are just far too many unknowns to justify a 'Yes' vote.

That's what the 'YES' voters call scaremongering

a reply to: Freeborn

I wrote this elsewhere, but it still stands - "Would Scotland be a Republic or a Kingdom? Who will write the Constitution? What claim does Scotland have to the oil fields, which are far beyond sight of Scottish land? Would it apply to be in NATO? What would happen to the base in Faslane? What happens to the border - will there be customs houses and passport controls? What if parts of the border don't want to leave the UK? What about the Orkneys and the Shetlands, which apparently also don't want to leave the UK? Which currency will Scotland have? What will back that currency? What part of the UK's national debt will Scotland agree to take on? Will there be a provision for Scotland to reapply for the Union?

It's horribly complicated and Alex Salmond has been extremely optimistic."

And it all is horribly complicated. The practical, legal and constitutional impact of Scottish independence would be vast - and would be far less rosy than Salmond has stated.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

In the case of the Scots they are still rather... irked... with Margaret Thatcher after she used Scotland as a test bed for the Poll Tax.

Well so are we in N.E. England, and I dare say many other regions within rUK.
She almost consigned a whole generation and the whole region to the dustbin.

Whole industries obliterated and with it whole communities.

Scotland is not unique in feeling bitter towards 'Westminster'.

It was unfair.

Yes, it was.
But so was Scottish MP's voting for university fees for rUK students whilst not being affected themselves - but do we hold the whole of Scotland accountable for that?

Unfair?
Life is unfair.

a reply to: Freeborn

Oh, I fully agree. I'm Welsh (as you know!) and Thatcher is loathed there. The damage she and her successors (we once had a mining industry!) inflicted is still being felt.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg


Alex Salmond is first of all a 'Salesman'


I was in sales for 30 years and to be successful one needs to sell

all the positives and pass over the negatives.

If the customer brings up a negative just go on to emphasise another

positive. .... Alex Salmond

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: AngryCymraeg


Alex Salmond is first of all a 'Salesman'


I was in sales for 30 years and to be successful one needs to sell

all the positives and pass over the negatives.

If the customer brings up a negative just go on to emphasise another

positive. .... Alex Salmond

He's always irritated me and I can't for the life of me work out why. I think it's because he wants Scottish independence so badly that he's turning a blind eye to everything that emerges that contradicts his rosy view of the situation. And I do think that he's presenting an over-optimistic view of the situation. Fair enough - he's a politician. But the way that he dismisses valid arguments against Scottish independence I find irritating. This is a very serious subject and he keeps grinning and waving his hands to dismiss the arguments of the other side.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I agree wholeheartedly - independence is going to be an incredibly complicated issue involving much discussion and negotiation.
And not all of it will be settled in Scotland's favour - it would be irresponsible of rUK negotiators not to try and get the best deal possible for rUK.

And then there'll be the EU, NATO etc.

The list of things you highlighted are just the tip of the iceberg.

How anyone could vote 'Yes' without a clear, set roadmap for independence and without the vast majority of the details agreed is beyond me.

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: AngryCymraeg


Alex Salmond is first of all a 'Salesman'


I was in sales for 30 years and to be successful one needs to sell

all the positives and pass over the negatives.

If the customer brings up a negative just go on to emphasise another

positive. .... Alex Salmond

EDIT..Below the belt post.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
And the same answers again
A draft constitution already published, final one to be decided after independence. Keep Elizabeth the first until a democratic decision to become a republic.
Oil is in Scottish waters.
Support for independence in Shetlands is consistent with rest of Scotland. If they did stay in uk oil still Scottish as island enclave rules would apply.
Currency sterling at least in short term.
Debt to be decided by negotiation based on split of assets.
We don't become independent on 19th there is a process.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I agree wholeheartedly - independence is going to be an incredibly complicated issue involving much discussion and negotiation.
And not all of it will be settled in Scotland's favour - it would be irresponsible of rUK negotiators not to try and get the best deal possible for rUK.

And then there'll be the EU, NATO etc.

The list of things you highlighted are just the tip of the iceberg.

How anyone could vote 'Yes' without a clear, set roadmap for independence and without the vast majority of the details agreed is beyond me.

That's why I'm against Welsh independence - we're too poor, our industrial base is shot to pieces, the border is horrendously complicated, the legal implications are even more complicated and it would just be one giant mess. I'm very proud to call myself Welsh/Cymraeg. But I'm not going to close my eyes to the financial and legal problems that would arise from independence. We can't afford it and the risks are too vast.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Erm, unless you've been graverobbing I think you mean Elizabeth II. Liz the first has been dead for 400 years.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
Nope she is the first queen Elizabeth of Scots.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
So because you have been shagged by being in the union you now want to stay in the union as you are to poor to leave. Surely years of underinvestment and neglect are reasons to go?