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NEWS: Honor Killings Claim Thousands of Women

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posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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They have factionalized arguments that go back to the 7th century(eg:sunni v. shiite) that require killing ,but I don't know how much goes on on a daily basis.




posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 09:05 PM
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As much As I would like to see certain major religions banned (and I dont just mean Islam) I have to be fair....

I am fairly certain that honor killing is a cultural issue and not a religious one.
Any culture in which women "traditionally" have a lower status then men will have honor killing .
You'd be surprised how many of the so called "muslim" customs are actually cultural customs.
For instance no where in the koran does its say that women have to wear a circus tent for the rest of their lives. I think it might say something along the lines of "women should be modest " and that got interperted to justify the whole burkha thing. Honestly I could be mistake but im pretty sure im right.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Groups like the taliban and the wahabbists, they're like, mean amish or something.


LMAO mean amish
That made my day Nygdan



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by boogyman
As much As I would like to see certain major religions banned (and I dont just mean Islam) I have to be fair....

I am fairly certain that honor killing is a cultural issue and not a religious one.
Any culture in which women "traditionally" have a lower status then men will have honor killing .
You'd be surprised how many of the so called "muslim" customs are actually cultural customs.
For instance no where in the koran does its say that women have to wear a circus tent for the rest of their lives. I think it might say something along the lines of "women should be modest " and that got interperted to justify the whole burkha thing. Honestly I could be mistake but im pretty sure im right.


A lot of the ugliness crept in after Mohammed (sp?) dies. One of his wives was a pretty well-off business woman, and I tihnk she supported him sometimes. And I have read some women's history about female war leaders and generals just before Islam took hold. I think it was the close followers of Mohammed that started interpreting his sayings to suit their own agendas, after he wasn't around to set things straight. There are some verses in the koran that aren't too nice regarding women, but the bible has most books beat when it comes to hating women, foreigners and other religions.

The whole multiple wives thing, I think, got started after some wars cut the male population down. There were a lot of women left without partners, and some with kids to raise. So men were encouraged to help out as long as they could treat each woman equally. Also, in those times, women did all the household management, plus cloth and food production for outside sales. There are lots of letters back & forth between a wife at home weaving to the man out selling her work talking about profits and reinvesting. So women were treated better in the past, and had control over the fruits of their labor.

There must have been some big cultural shift after Mohammed died. Maybe wars, but something kicked the wind out from women's semi-equality and it never returned. I guess some people have a hard time sharing power, even when it's in their best interests.

--Saerlaith



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 09:51 PM
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boogyman wrote: I am fairly certain that honor killing is a cultural issue and not a religious one.


You might have a valid point there.

The Pashtuns of Afghanistan are the ones that supported the Taliban and strict Islamist idealism.

While the Tajiks of Afghanistan have a more traditional localized view of the Koran and moslem teachings. They are also more educated and their women have freedom.




[edit on 12/6/2004 by bodebliss]



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 01:04 PM
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A YOUNG Asian woman was murdered for bringing disgrace on her family after they heard a love song had been dedicated to her on a radio station, cops said yesterday.

The so-called honour killing was probed by West Yorkshire Police but they met a wall of silence in the girls Pakistani community.


Girl killed over love song

This is just downright sick. What kind of culture would condone this ?
117 deaths and disappearances of Asian women are being re-investigated - hopefully something will be done to stop this barbarism.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
just seem to keep going round and round, over and over again,

Only sinceshortly after wwi. Long in a person's lifetime to be sure, but not long historically at all.



I for one believe we should leave em alone, but the thing is some of them dont want to leave us alone so we can't do nothing.

Thats the conundrum eh. If the US and the western governments 'pull out', whatever thats supposed to mean, then the problems will remain, because there will be corporations over there. And then what, the west has to force its companies and citizens to not participate in business over there too?

Well one thing we can do is get off Oil

Agreed. It would be difficult to overstate just how much oil has to do with all these problems.


saerlaith
Do muslim religious laws punish men for sexual infractions the same way they do women?

Of course not. Men make up these rules and don't punish themselves for them. Its like the old promiscous standard, promiscuous women are looked down on, promiscuous men are looked up to. In all of these cases involving honour killings, obviously, there is a man involved. They are almost never punished, and certainly don't get strung up, shot in the head, or stoned to death.

I know that young women have been killed for talking to young men.

I don't know about talking per se.

I've read accounts of honor killings being carried out by wrapping women in heavy chains and throwing them in the family's swimming pool.

I'd be interested to see if thats true or an equivalent of an urban legend. Irregardless the practice is loathesome.

I think, got started after some wars cut the male population down.

I think that there are some other tribes where this sort of thing is practiced and it doesn't necessarily require a shortage of men. Its entirely possible that arabs in pre-islamic times had multiple wives.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 02:36 PM
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"Honor Killings"? How in the name of Heaven could this be rationalized in any way? As an earlier poster said - even rape doesn't make you exempt.It really is a mean old world out there.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 03:31 PM
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Obviously this can all be settled very easily. Fathers of the world, send your slutty daughters to me!



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 03:42 PM
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Muslim religious leaders are the only ones that can help put an end to this horrifying practice.


Did anyone research this further and realize its' a socio-cultural problem, and not a religious one? This occurs in India; Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims alike all practice this rancid act.

Deep



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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From the Muslim Women's League (which I used to reasearch this subject, link above):


Clearly, the prevailing view that devalues and belittles women is derived from sociocultural factors that are justified by a distorted and erroneous interpretation of religion, especially of Islam.


Furthermore from the original article:



However one Kurdish Swede, who in his youth in a Kurdish village saw a girl he played with burnt to death by her father because she had pre-marital sex, said religion did play a role.

"The roots are in religion," he said. "The honour of the clan is based on religion, especially for Muslims. They see it as shameful if a female family member has pre- or extra-marital sex and that they can make the shame go away by committing the honour-related murder."


Yes, I agree with the assertion that this is a sociocultural problem - but with its justification and roots firmly planted in the Islamic religion. Who other than religious leaders can reform things in a religiously dominated society?

What research have you found to otherwise say this problem isn't a religious issue? I'd like to see it.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 06:01 PM
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I asked you to adress the issue of non-islamic honour killings which occur in India, and what spurs these?

Deep



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by PistolPete
What research have you found to otherwise say this problem isn't a religious issue? I'd like to see it.

Like zerodeep just noted, and others have pointed out, hindus sihks and other non muslims do this, Religion is used to justify it and preserve it, but certainyl irreligious people can be abusive torwards women. No one, I think, is claiming that it has nothing to do with religion, I think that what people are trying to point out is that its not something that naturally arises out of the islamic religion, its not something that requires the islamic religion, and its not something that is only a problem of the islamic religion. Sure, islamic leaders could put a stop to it. So could american leaders, by invading and forbiding the practice. So could chinese leaders, by doing the same. Obviously the people promoting and protecting it have a special responsibility tho.





posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
I asked you to adress the issue of non-islamic honour killings which occur in India, and what spurs these?

Deep


No you didn't, you said its socio-economic and then named three religions that this occurs in to prove that it's not a religious issue. I saw no question posed.

This is a problem in other religions, even to a much lesser extent in Christianity in some places. However, this conference that the original news story was about is composed of mainly Islamic nations, highlighting this issue in the Muslim world.

If the conference in Sweden were about the effects of India's Hindu caste system and the issue of honor killings thats what would have been discussed.


[edit on (12/8/0404 by PistolPete]



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