Obama Admin Renews Attempt to Force Little Sisters of the Poor to Obey HHS Mandate

a reply to: Annee

Need I remind anyone of this quote, that comes from a pro-choice website:

The study found that 80% of women seeking later abortion could be described by at least one of five characteristics:
1. Women raising children alone (47%)
2. Women with a history of substance use, heavy drinking, and/or depression (30%)
3. Women who experienced recent conflict or violence with their partner (24%)
4. Women who had trouble deciding what to do about the pregnancy followed by trouble accessing services (22%)
5. Women under age 20 who had never given birth (12%)

Bear in mind that any 8 month abortions would fall into the above data.

originally posted by: bbracken677
What you fail to realize is that 5 month old fetuses regularly survive and lead healthy productive lives.

Really? You got links for that? Back up your "REGULARLY SURVIVE". Oh, and what exactly does "survive" mean?

My grandson was born at 7 months weighing 3 pounds. He was in intensive care for nearly 2 months. He just barely made 5 pounds on Christmas Day -- so they let him go home.
(In a red stocking )

Do you have any reality concept of what goes on with preemie babies?

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Annee

Need I remind anyone of this quote, that comes from a pro-choice website:

The study found that 80% of women seeking later abortion could be described by at least one of five characteristics:
1. Women raising children alone (47%)
2. Women with a history of substance use, heavy drinking, and/or depression (30%)
3. Women who experienced recent conflict or violence with their partner (24%)
4. Women who had trouble deciding what to do about the pregnancy followed by trouble accessing services (22%)
5. Women under age 20 who had never given birth (12%)

Bear in mind that any 8 month abortions would fall into the above data.

I know exactly what it says and I did further research.

LATER does not mean 8 months.

It is YOU who has decided LATER means 8 months.

a reply to: Annee

Understand the words that I am typing.

I said it includes 8 months data. By definition. Are you actually going to argue that point? Anything to deflect the lack of data from your side, apparently.

Later or late term data is generally (depending on who is collecting the data and making the definitions, cause yes I did notice the variability) over 20 or 21 weeks. By definition this includes 32+ month data as well.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Annee

Understand the words that I am typing.

I said it includes 8 months data. By definition. Are you actually going to argue that point? Anything to deflect the lack of data from your side, apparently.

Later or late term data is generally (depending on who is collecting the data and making the definitions, cause yes I did notice the variability) over 20 or 21 weeks. By definition this includes 32+ month data as well.

Show me any where it says 8 months.

I am not saying it's never happened.

But, I did further research. Every where I read, indicated 5 months as late term abortion --- not 8.

Again, it is YOU who has decided Later means 8 months.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bbracken677
What you fail to realize is that 5 month old fetuses regularly survive and lead healthy productive lives.

Really? You got links for that? Back up your "REGULARLY SURVIVE". Oh, and what exactly does "survive" mean?

My grandson was born at 7 months weighing 3 pounds. He was in intensive care for nearly 2 months. He just barely made 5 pounds on Christmas Day -- so they let him go home.
(In a red stocking

)

Do you have any reality concept of what goes on with preemie babies?

It's always a mistake for women to discuss abortion with men. It convinces them that it's their business. Woman's body, woman's choice. Period.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bbracken677
What you fail to realize is that 5 month old fetuses regularly survive and lead healthy productive lives.

Really? You got links for that? Back up your "REGULARLY SURVIVE". Oh, and what exactly does "survive" mean?

My grandson was born at 7 months weighing 3 pounds. He was in intensive care for nearly 2 months. He just barely made 5 pounds on Christmas Day -- so they let him go home.
(In a red stocking

)

Do you have any reality concept of what goes on with preemie babies?

It's always a mistake for women to discuss abortion with men. It convinces them that it's their business. Woman's body, woman's choice. Period.

Or women's rights, or child support, or women in business, women in politics, or women . . . .

But, then I'm not really discussing

a reply to: Tangerine

In other words, what you are saying is: You got nuttin.
All you have is the same old tired mantra that is demonstrably wrong.

Go ahead, murder babies. You wont get close to mine, I can assure you.

Besides, most of the babies dying because "oh my, I don't want a baby" would have crap mothers raising them. Pretty much by definition.

It's amazing how defenseless people can be in a debate. You have to have the tools to get the job done.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: windword

Because the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's annual study on abortion statistics does not calculate the exact gestational age for abortions performed past the 20th week, there are no precise data for the number of abortions performed after viability.

So you pretty much have to accept the data for late term. Your statement regarding the reason for 8 month abortions being strictly for medical reasons is thereby, as previously stated, bovine excrement.

This is what you said:

Please describe the difference between a fetus at 8 months, and a newly born baby? Both are capable of surviving with help. Both are human. If it is ok to kill the 8 month fetus, then it is equally ok to kill a 3 month old baby. An 8 month old baby.

You are the one claiming women are killing their 8 month old fetuses.

The fact is, Supreme Court protection of abortion only goes as far as viability. Every abortion is legal, and protected right up to the point of viability, according to the Supreme Court. Among pregnancies that are wanted, not every fetus will reach viability. Therefore, aborting an 8 month fetus that is non-viable is perfectly legal, and would most certainly be a medical reason.

I don't have a problem with that, but apparently you do.

a reply to: windword

Ah yes, because the Supreme Court is always right.

As in when they found that slavery was constitutional. Do you support that as well?

If you are fine with murder, that's your problem.

Just do not try to pass off the tripe that late term (or 8 month) abortions are performed strictly for medical reasons. We all know how much equine excrement that is.

The use of the claim viable is wrong and misleading. BTW, there is a link above (way above by now) that questions that term, since frankly viability varies and is not something that can be determined without being cruel and inhuman. But hey! That's what abortion is about, no? Cruel and inhuman?

Why not just extend abortion rights out to 3 years post birth. Then if you change your mind during the terrible two's you can make your life better then as well. Who gives a crap about a kid, right?

N/M

a reply to: bbracken677

Whatever! I'm not here to debate legal abortion with you, or why women are sluts and why the Supreme Court is wrong.

You claimed that women were killing their 8 month old fetus for recreation. You are making stuff up, and using the reality you created to inflate and inflame.

I don't care about the reason legal abortions are performed, and I'm not debating it with you. I am just calling you out on the lie that "slutty" women and their doctors are killing their 8 month old viable fetuses for recreational purposes.

a reply to: windword

Those are your words. Strictly your words. I never used the word slut, but it sure seems to trip your trigger for some reason.

Deny that women are having recreational sex, irresponsibly, then when they get pregnant they decide to have an abortion because they don't want the child. Deny it... please.

That is my definition of recreational abortions. There is nothing untrue about that and any attempt to deny it will be squashed with facts. Facts you cannot deny, facts you cannot argue with...plain ole facts.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bbracken677
What you fail to realize is that 5 month old fetuses regularly survive and lead healthy productive lives.

Really? You got links for that? Back up your "REGULARLY SURVIVE". Oh, and what exactly does "survive" mean?

My grandson was born at 7 months weighing 3 pounds. He was in intensive care for nearly 2 months. He just barely made 5 pounds on Christmas Day -- so they let him go home.
(In a red stocking

)

Do you have any reality concept of what goes on with preemie babies?

Women wonder why men think they have a right to make decisions for them. Perhaps it's because many women engage in this "discussion" with men and create the impression for men that they do have a say in this topic. It's reached the point where I say those women deserve what they get.

a reply to: bbracken677

Those are your words. Strictly your words. I never used the word slut, but it sure seems to trip your trigger for some reason.

Deny that women are having recreational sex, irresponsibly, then when they get pregnant they decide to have an abortion because they don't want the child. Deny it... please.

Does that make women sluts? Are there good abortions and bad abortions?

To answer you question, almost all sex is recreational. All unwanted pregnancies are unwanted.

a reply to: windword

And how convenient that you will not debate after being "smart" a couple pages earlier and starting this.

How convenient because you cannot back up what you said about medical reasons.. you cannot even come close to backing it up. The whole argument is disingenuous. False.

Not one link was provided to support that position. Not...one...link. The only source you can find to support that statement would come from some BS pro-murder website spouting ignorance to support their position.

Most abortions are due simply to women being irresponsible. Women not caring about the consequences. Women so irresponsible that in some cases the abortion is simply because it would "ruin their life" . Shoulda thought about that before screwing around without protection.

No child asked to be born to such a parent, but who pays the price? The child, with their life.

a reply to: windword

Abortions for health reasons where the life of woman or child is in the balance is as good an abortion as it gets.

I agree about the sex... but there is responsibility and there is irresponsibility. If one makes a mistake, one should be willing to accept the consequences. The fact that not accepting the consequences costs a child his or her life is what is unconscionable. The fact that women defend it with BS statements like "my body, my choice" does not take into account the life of the child which is forfeit.

I find it hypocritical that women claim such, and then if they keep the child they expect the father to pay through the nose. If the father demanded an abortion and the woman refused...is that any different than vice versa? Oh, wait...no one asked the child in either case.

Who advocates on behalf of the child?

We all KNOW that if the child went to term that in the vast majority of cases a healthy baby would be born, so the viable crap is crap... viable is having a caring mother instead of a crap mother that would toss you into a dumpster, the sooner the better.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: windword

And how convenient that you will not debate after being "smart" a couple pages earlier and starting this.

I didn't start a debate with you. This was my first response to you and your statement.

Who has recreational abortions?
Who is going around killing 8 month old fetuses?
Where and why, in the US, is it legal to get an abortion at 8 months pregnant?

You never provided any kind of documentation at all of women killing their 8 month old fetus. As a matter of fact, aborting an 8 month old viable fetus is illegal. That's the law. I don't need to cite stats for something that's illegal.

How convenient because you cannot back up what you said about medical reasons.. you cannot even come close to backing it up. The whole argument is disingenuous. False.

Abortions ARE NOT performed on women who are 8 months along for recreational purposes. You're whole argument is based on stuff you made up.

Most abortions are due simply to women being irresponsible. Women not caring about the consequences. Women so irresponsible that in some cases the abortion is simply because it would "ruin their life" . Shoulda thought about that before screwing around without protection.

So what? You opinion, not mine. I don't care why women get abortions. I just want to make sure that can.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bbracken677
What you fail to realize is that 5 month old fetuses regularly survive and lead healthy productive lives.

Really? You got links for that? Back up your "REGULARLY SURVIVE". Oh, and what exactly does "survive" mean?

My grandson was born at 7 months weighing 3 pounds. He was in intensive care for nearly 2 months. He just barely made 5 pounds on Christmas Day -- so they let him go home.
(In a red stocking

)

Do you have any reality concept of what goes on with preemie babies?

Women wonder why men think they have a right to make decisions for them. Perhaps it's because many women engage in this "discussion" with men and create the impression for men that they do have a say in this topic. It's reached the point where I say those women deserve what they get.

So, as a woman I should just let men babble, thinking they are right about everything ---- to avoid what again?

Is this the 1950s?

a reply to: windword

According to the Ohio Department of Health, four abortions were performed in Ohio after 32 weeks (or eight months) of pregnancy in 2009, the most recent year in which statistics are available. Two abortions were performed when the mother was 32 weeks along; one abortion took place at 33 weeks; and one occurred at 35 weeks. Overall, 28,721 abortions were reported in Ohio in 2009. Of those, 613 involved pregnancies at least 20 weeks along and 116 of them were for women at least 24 weeks pregnant. The length of the pregnancy was unknown in 276 cases. The numbers confirm that at least one abortion occurred in Ohio when a mother was at least 8½ months’ pregnant. Fende said she was aware of this one abortion when she made her claim, and she said she did not know the reason behind it. Ohio law does not include an absolute ban on abortions when a woman is 8½, 8¾ or even 9 months’ pregnant.

When the above was written, there was legislation pending to prevent 3rd trimester abortions. I am pretty sure that that bill has passed.

It hasn't been that long since the 8 month abortions were being performed. Not only that but legislation preventing them that have passed, passed with extremely nasty opposition. Fact is, some women want to be able to murder a child at 8 months.

Oh, and the fact that most abortions are performed simply for women behaving irresponsibly is not my opinion. It is factual. Just look at the reasons in previous posted that were listed by the women, themselves, who were getting the abortions. Not exactly something to be proud of.

You just want to be sure that women have the ability to murder children. Nice. I just want to make sure I am not paying for it. If you want to murder a child, do it on your own dime, somewhere I cannot see.

The pendulum will swing. It always does.

One day history will view this period with derision and confusion, wondering how a people could slaughter their unborn children for no legitimate reason. Civilized behavior does not involve the murder of innocents.

Your attitude, your problem... unless a life hangs in the balance, in which case an innocent's life is forfeit with no say, with no advocate.