Obama Admin Renews Attempt to Force Little Sisters of the Poor to Obey HHS Mandate

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: links234
half of the organization are not nuns...so no, it's not just 'the nuns' that need the birth control. It's the 2000+ who aren't nuns that work for the organization.

It is against the Catholic faith for any Catholic to partake in OR ASSIST ANOTHER PERSON in obtaining abortions, abortificants, and birth control. It doesn't matter if some of the people are nuns or not. It's a Catholic religious organization and they simply can not do it. It's against their religion.

People who voluntarily work for a Catholic religious organization know this ahead of time. If they want free birth control or free abortions, then common sense says they should work elsewhere.

That being said ... ST Mother Teresa of Calcutta has a very special relationship with this order. (It's not her order but she stayed with them for a while) I'd advise Obama not to go after them or else ST Mother Teresa will get involved from Heaven and I can promise that Obama would not win against her.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Any Catholic?? Or any catholic business???
Can any Catholic avoid having to buy an insurance policy that includes birth control for their daughter without being penalized by the gov't ?
What's the difference?? If it is wrong for the businesses to include it in their insurance policies wouldn't be equally wrong for the parent?
I kind of think that the way it stands now the businesses seem to have their religious protections protected far above that of the people!
The bill of rights wasn't written to protect the rights of businesses was it?
So how can they justify giving them protection that they haven't given the people?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: links234
half of the organization are not nuns...so no, it's not just 'the nuns' that need the birth control. It's the 2000+ who aren't nuns that work for the organization.

It is against the Catholic faith for any Catholic to partake in OR ASSIST ANOTHER PERSON in obtaining abortions, abortificants, and birth control. It doesn't matter if some of the people are nuns or not. It's a Catholic religious organization and they simply can not do it. It's against their religion.

People who voluntarily work for a Catholic religious organization know this ahead of time. If they want free birth control or free abortions, then common sense says they should work elsewhere.

That being said ... ST Mother Teresa of Calcutta has a very special relationship with this order. (It's not her order but she stayed with them for a while) I'd advise Obama not to go after them or else ST Mother Teresa will get involved from Heaven and I can promise that Obama would not win against her.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

You're seriously arguing that every potential employee should have to hire a lawyer to decipher health insurance policy coverage details before accepting a job or just accept being screwed when it comes time to get health insurance benefits? In case you didn't know, it's illegal to discriminate in hiring. They don't have to work elsewhere. How is this any different from expecting people of color to not apply for a job somewhere because the owner of a business is a racist?

Mother Teresa will get Obama? That's hilarious. Maybe he's got Gandalf on his side.

The Little SIsters and other groups of their ilk should stop functioning as businesses and hiring people. Problem solved.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: links234
half of the organization are not nuns...so no, it's not just 'the nuns' that need the birth control. It's the 2000+ who aren't nuns that work for the organization.

It is against the Catholic faith for any Catholic to partake in OR ASSIST ANOTHER PERSON in obtaining abortions, abortificants, and birth control. It doesn't matter if some of the people are nuns or not. It's a Catholic religious organization and they simply can not do it. It's against their religion.

People who voluntarily work for a Catholic religious organization know this ahead of time. If they want free birth control or free abortions, then common sense says they should work elsewhere.

That being said ... ST Mother Teresa of Calcutta has a very special relationship with this order. (It's not her order but she stayed with them for a while) I'd advise Obama not to go after them or else ST Mother Teresa will get involved from Heaven and I can promise that Obama would not win against her.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

You're seriously arguing that every potential employee should have to hire a lawyer to decipher health insurance policy coverage details before accepting a job or just accept being screwed when it comes time to get health insurance benefits? In case you didn't know, it's illegal to discriminate in hiring. They don't have to work elsewhere. How is this any different from expecting people of color to not apply for a job somewhere because the owner of a business is a racist?

Mother Teresa will get Obama? That's hilarious. Maybe he's got Gandalf on his side.

The Little SIsters and other groups of their ilk should stop functioning as businesses and hiring people. Problem solved.

No he's saying that if you go work for a devout religious organization, especially a non profit one, then you should be prepared to follow their beliefs. If you do not agree with them then you shouldn't work for them. Just like if you don't believe in the way Walmart, Home Depot, Friday's, or GM operate then don't work for them either. Why would you go work for a religious organization then expect them to violate their beliefs for you?

Honestly they should just make all their positions part time, they can then offer whatever benefits they want and this entire argument is mute. Thats where this country is headed by the way.

a reply to: FlyersFan

It used to be against the law too, not just against a religion,, but now things are corrupted to the point that people are actually hoping Obama will be successful with this, which shows how incredibly vile and corrupt people have become.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Amen. It's nice to see there are still some people who still believe in the Constitution.

The real flaw is the ACA, which insists that employers are forced to pay for a product, with no say over what the product is or how it is consumed.

Pharaoh Obama has no respect for private property--in this case, the employer's money. Owning something means you have the right to consume, destroy or dispose of your property as you see fit. Obama isn't taking away the owner's money; the money is still theirs, but they no longer have a say in how it gets spent.

The supreme court itself is responsible for the heart of Hobby Lobby's and Little Sisters' stance, because it created the category of "conscientious objector" from military service. The real blow to central government in the Hobby Lobby case is the idea that people could object to government service (healthcare in this case) on moral grounds.

originally posted by: Tangerine


The Little SIsters and other groups of their ilk should stop functioning as businesses and hiring people. Problem solved.

Because their REAL crime is trying to help people; that's the government's prerogative. Big O doesn't like the competition.

What about other non-profits? What about Fire Departments? Most fire departments require their workers to be drug free, even if ACA provides them with medical marijuana. So will Fire Departments be constrained from requiring their firefighters to be sober? If the 'rights of the employee to access healthcare' come before the institution's mission, it's going to be a lot harder for any institution to fulfill its mission. From fire departments to non-profit hospitals.

So, they should all 'stop functioning as businesses' because they have a mission to perform, other than providing abortions and dope?

Yes the constitution promises freedom of religion.....
But who was it that the founding fathers intended to extend this freedom to originally?
People??
Churches and other religious groups??
Businesses???
All of the above??
Can a church or business have the freedom of religion if the people who make up that church or business don't anyways?
Even if hobby lobby doesn't have to provide their employees insurance that includes birth control aren't the owners of that business still mandated to include it in the insurance for their minor children?

Is it really a wise idea to extend this protection to businesses and religious groups while ignoring that the people themselves are not protected in like manner?


And although one might agree that common sense would clue one in that birth control might not be included in the health insurance of a organization run by nuns I would venture to guess that it might not be so obvious when it comes to companies like Conestoga Wood Specialties or Hobby Lobby! So should we require companies and organizations to provide the details of their insurance plans when giving out applications for employment just so we can prevent any misunderstandings from the start? As it is I have never had a perspective employer give me much detail at all about their insurance plan without me questioning it at an interview. If birthcontrol coverage is important enough to me I might be offended about wasting my time applying for a company who chooses not to provide it on religious grounds! After all my time is just as valuable to me as the owners of these businesses and organizations is to them!

originally posted by: OptimusCrime
a reply to: xuenchen

This President is the worst. I can't wait for him to be gone.

Why? It's not like anything will be different when the next guy enters the oval office.

a reply to: FlyersFan

But... But... Mother Teresa renounced her faith shortly after she arrived in Calcutta. So is she in heaven or not?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

That is so sad. She did marvelous work in India and weather there was a god or not she was a great light in a very dark place.

a reply to: dawnstar

No argument there. That was truly a thankless thing to do and I commend her for what she did.

I think it is silly to quibble over who should be required to go against their religious faith by our government.

The real story is how our government requires us to purchase health insurance.

Someone bring up the fact that the govt requires us to purchase automobile insurance, please. My health or lack of treatment does not have to affect others like the risk I pose to others by driving an automobile.

a reply to: butcherguy

I didn't have a driver's license till I was 30 so no the gov't didn't force me to buy car insurance for the first 30 years of my life. Many people in the big cities chose not to own a car thus they are not required to have car insurance.
Health insurance is different I guess. They figure it is something we all will need and I won't argue that point. But just as there are many who chose not to have a car because it's unaffordable for them to there are also people who just avoid the doctors because they are unaffordable. And quite frankly the affordable care act has done nothing to make that healthcare affordable. It just says that you need the insurance weather you can afford it or not.
Who cares if the only way you can get it is by avoiding eating for a few weeks to pay for it and well once the week long fast makes you sick you are still stuck with the need for unaffordable healthcare even with the insurance.

The site is still a hacker's heaven by what I understand.
It has failed miserably in it's primary task - providing affordable healthcare.
They have exempted and postponed way too much.
And we have half the country in screaming about how it's infriging on their constitutional rights!

We need to get rid of the whole darned thing and start over.

a reply to: dawnstar
We all have to eat.
I am surprised that they haven't passed and Affordable Nutrition Act, forcing me to pay for my food through a government mandate and telling me what I can and can't eat.

a reply to: Tangerine
While they do pay people, there are 2 things that should be noted.

It is run under the auspices of the Catholic church and the holy see. They take no money in from the federal government. They have no profit, and are essentially under private ownership. Keep those points in mind.

Now if the federal government pushes it, the first would be to get the US Supreme Court to reverse its decision, the one done in the Hobby Lobby case. In that case, it stated that closely held organizations can be exempt from parts of the health care mandate. That means as long as the Little Sisters is not traded on the open market, it is exempt from such.

But there is nothing to state that the offices and positions can not be staffed by nuns. And if the government keeps up, if it chooses, it can choose to let all non lay persons go and then staff them with monks and nuns, thus fully removing them from the requirement of the law.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I know. I'm just poking fun

I disagree with your claim about mother teresa not renouncing her faith though, but that is a topic for another thread so I'll just drop it.