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Proof : Russia didn`t want to face the decision of having to intervene

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posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

NATO is a defensive alliance, and the defensive part is key because if a NATO members invades another country, NATO is not required to come to their aid.

Maybe we should look at Russia's alliances and see how that's going. The Kerplakistan countries arent going to last long if Russian drags them down with them.




posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

You just got burned by Rasmussen about Russia not being a threat and now you`re going to start rambling inconsistently...

Just give it up, your fallacy has gone down the toilet.

Just acknowledge you were wrong instead of making a fool out of yourself, besides a few buddies no one with even half a brain still believes your crap anymore.
edit on 15-9-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I am not wrong in what I stated - NATO is a defensive alliance only.

I have stated several times now Russia is no threat to the US and that's based on how far behind the ball they are with their armed forces. I have also stated NATO is no threat to Russia because its a defensive alliance.

Russia wont be done upgrading their armed forces, should they keep that funding at its current level, until 2020 per Putin. Absent that right now the most advanced ground units Russia has have been used along and inside Ukraine.

This is why we hear Putin whining about nuclear weapons. If he could stand toe to toe conventionally, he would not have to talk about nukes. He, along with many like you, seem to forget the fact The US, among other allies, have Nukes to.

So no, I am not wrong.
edit on 15-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire isn`t agreeing with you :



NATO is the leadership which has been causing the ongoing wars from the present conflict in the Ukraine, to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and others.

www.ipsnews.net...



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire isn`t agreeing with you :

NATO is the leadership which has been causing the ongoing wars from the present conflict in the Ukraine, to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and others.



Good thing its only a blog piece (opinion). She won her award in the 1970's by the way.


Secondly she seems completely lost on NATO - The 2% budget is not "new" but has always existed.
NATO has nothing to do with Iraq.


edit on 15-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire isn`t agreeing with you :



NATO is the leadership which has been causing the ongoing wars from the present conflict in the Ukraine, to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and others.

www.ipsnews.net...


Mairead Maguire is not only entitled to her opinion, she may air it freely because she lives in a decadent western country that allows freedom of speech. Where are the voices in Russia protesting Putin's aggression?



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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Former Russian paratroopers say lead combat in rebel-held east Ukraine


LUHANSK Ukraine (Reuters) - Surveying a ruined airport in the rebel stronghold of Luhansk, the ex-Russian paratrooper in trademark blue beret boasts that only "professionals" such as him can turn the tide in the conflict with Kiev in eastern Ukraine.

Yakut, the nom de guerre offered by the fighter, says he left the Russian armed forces to fight with pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine. When his job here is done, it is to the ranks of the Russian army that he will return.

"Yes sir," he says. "There can be no other way."

Moscow has repeatedly denied it is supporting or arming the rebels and says its military is not engaged in Ukraine. If there are Russian citizens fighting with the rebels, they are private citizens with no links to Russia's armed forces, it says.

However, rights activists in Russia and groups bringing together mothers of soldiers cite growing evidence that Russian paratroopers have been wounded and killed in Ukraine.

In Luhansk, along with his comrades from across the border in Russia, Yakut says he commands a unit in charge of protecting a devastated city with no electricity or running water. Once home to 500,000 people, only a few hundred celebrated a city festival on Sunday.

The guns have fallen largely silent since a truce was implemented on Sept. 5, after five months of fighting that claimed over 3,000 lives; but in the absence of a settlement, tensions remain high and the Russians remain.

"It's not the (local) militia here anymore, it's mostly Russians who take part in combat," says the former paratrooper.

"It's the professionals here now." In his late 40s, an automatic rifle slung over his arm, Yakut is eager to stress he is no longer serving in the Russian army.


Click link for remainder of article...


Contrary to the claims he is making, he is in fact a Russian citizen, a member of the armed forces of the Russian Federation, is inside Ukraine actively fighting the Ukraine government, only top return to the armed forces of the Russian Federation when he is done.

Ironic that they are not supported by rebels or the people.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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Time to load up on popcorn :

Ukraine President's Days Numbered After Broad Accusations Of "Betraying National Interests"



So as the public mood suddenly and dramatically shifts in its impotent rage directed at Putin up until this point, into a domestic direction in general, and at the new president in particular, Poroshenko appears set to antagonize the public even more, following his disclosure moments ago that he proposes temporary self-governance in separatist-held areas in eastern regions of Donetsk, Luhansk, news service Ukrayinska Pravda reports, citing copy of draft law. Bloomberg has the details:


Source



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


The tensions highlight how difficult it will be for Mr. Poroshenko to manage the competing pressures of a Kremlin that isn't backing down and a domestic electorate that wants closer ties to Europe and no concessions to Moscow.


Your own source.

In other words, Poroshenko is losing popularity because he is not doing enough to fight Russia and strengthen ties with Europe! It was precisely this that brought Yanukovych down, remember?



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


The tensions highlight how difficult it will be for Mr. Poroshenko to manage the competing pressures of a Kremlin that isn't backing down and a domestic electorate that wants closer ties to Europe and no concessions to Moscow.


Your own source.

In other words, Poroshenko is losing popularity because he is not doing enough to fight Russia and strengthen ties with Europe! It was precisely this that brought Yanukovych down, remember?


He`s losing popularity among certain dangerous elements in the Ukraine, but part of those elements (the fascists part) doesn`t want EU/The West influence either. They see at as a two way step, first Russia`s influence gone and after that The West influence gone.

Nice prospect to go ahead with, don`t you think ?
edit on 15-9-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 11:49 AM
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Good interview with Dr. Paul Craig Roberts which clarifies the Ukraine situation also:

mp3



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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Thank you for the information bornagain




posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




It says but member states may do so.


You do understand that yes they are a member of NATO, but those countries aren't run by NATO.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire isn`t agreeing with you :


Well ever since Obama received his Nobel Peace Prize, it really doesn't have the status it once did.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




(the fascists part)


And exactly what part would that be?



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


He`s losing popularity among certain dangerous elements in the Ukraine, but part of those elements (the fascists part) doesn`t want EU/The West influence either.


Where does it say that in the article you cite? Or are you just making that up?



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


He`s losing popularity among certain dangerous elements in the Ukraine, but part of those elements (the fascists part) doesn`t want EU/The West influence either.


Where does it say that in the article you cite? Or are you just making that up?



Instead of just posting, I actually have followed what has been going on, do your homework guys before posting.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 10:27 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Time to load up on popcorn :

Ukraine President's Days Numbered After Broad Accusations Of "Betraying National Interests"



So as the public mood suddenly and dramatically shifts in its impotent rage directed at Putin up until this point, into a domestic direction in general, and at the new president in particular, Poroshenko appears set to antagonize the public even more, following his disclosure moments ago that he proposes temporary self-governance in separatist-held areas in eastern regions of Donetsk, Luhansk, news service Ukrayinska Pravda reports, citing copy of draft law. Bloomberg has the details:


My prediction came before Zero-hedge. I have beaten zero-hedge.

The doubters on this Board should look up my posts.

I have predicted that Poroshenko is wrapping up his business in Ukraine and will run away to some European country.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 10:33 PM
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The CIA is very active in Ukraine and it has a built a network of fascists to do its bidding.

This is the main reason why militia are in the forefront of fighting in Ukraine, not the army.

But there are problems in putting the militia in the forefront. The first problem is these people have no idea of military law. They are free to kill and loot as they please. (The same problem is on the other side also).

Second is if Ukraine converts militia to regular units, and give them all kinds of heavy weapons, they can easily turn on Kiev itself if they are not happy with Kiev regime. These people do not have a lifelong support system of regular army. They are fighting in anger and due to ideology.

I can see the anger increasing now in Fascist ranks due to setbacks. They would of course want one more fight, and then one more, and then one more until they are wiped out. This is the history; and history repeats itself when people do not learn from it.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 10:39 PM
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I predict based on my powers to see things and events, not from reading newspapers.

I predicted that Kiev will be 'sacked'. Somebody on ATS attacked me for the word 'sacked'. The word 'sacked' means that there will be fighting on the streets and fighting in the houses and I see hundreds of thousands dead in Kiev.

There will be no nuclear weapons dropped on Kiev but the city will be virtually destroyed none-the-less.

The predictions do not have to come true. People can learn and change and eliminate hatred from their hearts. But if they do not change, the events will happen as predicted.




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