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Chicago Crime Rate Drops As Concealed Carry Applications Surge

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posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: MarlinGrace

You keep ignoring the fact (or are just culturally oblivious) that there’s a whole world outside of the US, who for the most part have very strict gun laws and just don’t have the same crime rates as the US.

After the Port Arthur massacre in Australia the government enacted extremely strict gun laws and over 15 years later there has not been any mass shootings. The evidence speaks for itself.

“Open carry” may keep some people safe, but that just means the criminals will go look for a easier target. Like (for a perfect example) a crazy dude might decide to go shoot up some elementary school where the majority are helpless children, rather than go shoot up a shopping mall where there’s likely to be lots of people carrying a guns.

All it takes is a little common sense to realise that the US lax gun laws makes a minority safer but puts the majority at far more risk.

I’m also convinced it’s the lax gun laws that causes the US police to be so on edge and eager to shoot or bash citizens.



edit on 9-9-2014 by Subaeruginosa because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-9-2014 by Subaeruginosa because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: MarlinGrace

nah; here's the thing: If I were a criminal/mugger; I hold the little old lady up at gunpoint, take her purse, if I see her reach into her coat/pocket I shoot her or pistol whip her on the spot, and run for it, getting out of line of sight with her as fast as I can.

What people are afraid of is that little old lady shooting them by accident/getting hurt in the crossfire due to a misunderstanding or argument between two people without having time to react.

edit on 9-9-2014 by NonsensicalUserName because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: MarlinGrace

Exactly.

When I teach classes on self defense and awareness I always cite the average response time for police to respond to a serious situation. That time is 3 mintues.

I then tell everyone to pull out their cell phones and start their stop watches. I then proceed to walk throughout the room, pat ever person on their back and tell them they are dead.

Depending on class size I usually have made it to every person before the 3 minutes are up.

I respect a persons decision to not carry a gun. However do not tell me that I shouldn't be able to carry one.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: NonsensicalUserName

That is why there is more to it then just carrying.

You also have to develop situational awareness.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: buni11687

its been a relatively cool summer though, at least across the lake..



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have lead to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year


CPD May Have To Do More With Less


"police sources tell NBC 5 the mayor is asking the police department to cut its budget by 10 percent for next year."


The article seems to be claiming the amount of arrests are down, not necessarily crimes, which is clearly an effect from cutting the police budget.

On another note, it would be very interesting to see the stats for murders that are committed with either a legally obtained gun or a stolen legally obtained gun.

The fact still remains that no other civilized country in the world has anywhere near the amount of gun violence as in the US, which is clearly a result of Americas lax gun laws.


Therefore logically, the large amount of illegal drug use is therefore the result of our lax drug laws?



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
a reply to: MarlinGrace

Exactly.

When I teach classes on self defense and awareness I always cite the average response time for police to respond to a serious situation. That time is 3 mintues.

I then tell everyone to pull out their cell phones and start their stop watches. I then proceed to walk throughout the room, pat ever person on their back and tell them they are dead.

Depending on class size I usually have made it to every person before the 3 minutes are up.

I respect a persons decision to not carry a gun. However do not tell me that I shouldn't be able to carry one.



We both know this is just common sense, that is a great teaching technique btw. When someone fights this hard against a common sense issue thats when I stand firm and realise there is an ulterior motive. Taking a gun away from an honest citizen is not going to make you anymore successful at safer America, than the war on drugs has been more successful at getting rid of criminal drug dealers. Criminals commit crime thats what they do, the laws are meaningless to them. Since when does murder being a capital crime made a difference to a gang member?



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: mattsawaufo
a reply to: MarlinGrace
That's not what my drill sergeant told me.


That's US citizens and not military or foreigners.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: MarlinGrace

nah; here's the thing: If I were a criminal/mugger; I hold the little old lady up at gunpoint, take her purse, if I see her reach into her coat/pocket I shoot her or pistol whip her on the spot, and run for it, getting out of line of sight with her as fast as I can.

What people are afraid of is that little old lady shooting them by accident/getting hurt in the crossfire due to a misunderstanding or argument between two people without having time to react.


Hopefully you're not a criminal/mugger because one day you will find that little old lady thats a little faster than you on the draw and your name will be in the news. Maybe we could get Torquey to train her.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: MarlinGrace

You keep ignoring the fact (or are just culturally oblivious) that there’s a whole world outside of the US, who for the most part have very strict gun laws and just don’t have the same crime rates as the US.

After the Port Arthur massacre in Australia the government enacted extremely strict gun laws and over 15 years later there has not been any mass shootings. The evidence speaks for itself.

“Open carry” may keep some people safe, but that just means the criminals will go look for a easier target. Like (for a perfect example) a crazy dude might decide to go shoot up some elementary school where the majority are helpless children, rather than go shoot up a shopping mall where there’s likely to be lots of people carrying a guns.

All it takes is a little common sense to realise that the US lax gun laws makes a minority safer but puts the majority at far more risk.

I’m also convinced it’s the lax gun laws that causes the US police to be so on edge and eager to shoot or bash citizens.




However, OTOH, there are countries out there with very strict gun control (Mexico for example) and have crime rates exponentially higher than the US and countries with very similar gun control to the US (Czech Republic) that have less crime than the UK.

There were mass shootings after the Port Arthur gun bans in Australia ( Monash University shooting - In October 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five.
2011 Hectorville siege - A mass shooting that took place on Friday, April 29, 2011, in Hectorville, South Australia. It began after a 39-year-old male, Donato Anthony Corbo, went on a shooting rampage, killing three people and wounding a child and two police officers, before being arrested by Special Operations police after an eight-hour siege) and crime was lower in Australia in 1950 without gun bans than it is now. How can one claim cause and effect?

All it takes is a little common sense to see that gun bans do not make one safer if one looks at the world as a whole.
edit on 9-9-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-9-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: MarlinGrace
And the citizen wasn't trying to overthrow our form of government. As if our government never tries to kill people who try to overthrow it sarcastic eye roll.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:34 PM
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I'd read this before making any claims about the effects of the permits

www.chicagomag.com...



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:37 PM
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Peace through superior firepower! It is amazing that criminals don't want to get hurt, shot, or killed. An unarmed populace are easy pickens. But, not knowing who is armed around the area can have a stabilizing effect. I read somewhere that the areas with the strongest gun control laws have the highest violent crime rate. It is lost on the anti-gunners for some reason.

I used to carry every day as my job required it. In 12 years I only needed it twice in defense of whatever was about to happen. When the would be robbers saw that .45 ACP they immediately turned around and went the other way. Not even a word from them. No one wants to get hurt, paralyzed, or killed. Even the criminals. I happen to live in Florida and we have changed from the 'Castle Doctrine' to the 'Stand your ground' law. When the stand your ground law passed, even as an ardent gun rights supporter, I thought it was going to be a bloodbath. Surprisingly it hasn't. People may hear the MSM make a bunch of hoopla over shootings and the law, but that is just blowing up the few times it was actually used.

The bottom line is the police are coming to draw out your chalk line and investigate. They can't save you or be there quick enough to save your family or even an innocent person nearby. I will tell of a personal event that changed my life. I had left my weapon on the couch while I was rushing out of the house to go to work. I realized it about 10 minutes later. I called my 6 month pregnant wife and had her go get it and put it away until I could get back around lunch to pick it up. Well, on the way to my house there were two police cruisers directly in front of me going about 30MPH, no light, no sirens. I was shocked when they pulled into my driveway. I got out and had my radio in hand and my backup Smith 9mm in its rear belt holster. They asked me if I was dispatched there too. I said "No why?" These morons said they had a 911 hangup call from the house. I ran into my house to find it literally trashed as there was a hell of a fight. Things smashed everywhere. As I made it to the kitchen I found my recently new wife that was 6 months pregnant laying unconscious and stripped on the floor. These scumbags had broke into the house and beat and raped her and in doing so broke her neck.

She was alive and not paralyzed fortunately, but she hemorrhaged with the baby. They had to do an emergency C section at the hospital and the doctors had told me and some of the officers they were going to try and save her life first and then the baby. I was way gone at that point over the deep end. She had put my .45 under her pillow. She also had a concealed carry permit and I had her trained by the same guy that trains the State police. However, she had got up and went to the bathroom. She said she heard our new puppy growling and barking and when she opened the bathroom door to see what he was barking at the two perps were in the hall and the fight was on. She was well trained to be around me, but eventually they overpowered her and they thought they had killed her. They fought from that hall bath all the way down the hall, through the living room, into the foyer where she tried to get out the front door, then back into the family room and finally into the kitchen where she lay. All this would have been moot if she had been in the bedroom where she had the .45. They were not armed with any firearms.

I was pissed at these moron cops not responding like it was a 911 emergency and instead taking a leisurely cruise. And I had to yell at them to call an ambulance as they were just standing there gawking. She made it as did my first baby girl. I am telling you people this to point out that if you think for one minute the police are going to be able to get there to prevent you from becoming a victim, you are dead wrong or delusional. You need to consider that when you argue for keeping people that are lawful citizens from getting and carrying their own weapons. No one should have to go through this. My job led me to many crime scenes and not one was prevented by the police. It was investigating the aftermath. I saw family after family completely in shambles. And when you look at the statistics and response times, you will see that the places with the strictest gun laws are invitations for criminals to come calling, like a grizzly to a fresh kill.

ETA: This happened in Jacksonville, FL. around Jan. 22nd-25th 1990 and was the front page story in the Florida Times Union. We lived in a very nice area of the town which is known as Mandarin. I don't know if it is online as then there wasn't the internet like today where everything is put online. But, it is in the microfilm in the library.


edit on 9/9/14 by spirit_horse because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

That's a false equivalency if I ever saw one, but I suppose you could be right in the case of illegal use of pharmaceuticals, the abuse of antibiotics, etc.

It's all got to do with supply and demand.

Drugs, mostly from the tropics or overseas, are generally quite cheap to manufacture, they sell for a high price, which outweighs the higher risk + cost of transportation, and makes them profitable.
The above is also why alcohol was so profitable during prohibition.

Guns, due to the legality of them in the US; through straw purchases, or theft, or legal over-the-counter purchase; are in high supply right now, there is less risk and challenge in acquiring a gun, one can be kept legally if the criminal in question hasn't been arrested, one can also be gotten without a background check.

So let's say; hypothetically; we make all civilian owned handguns in the US go "poof", and suddenly disappear from existence. Where would criminals get guns? Would they smuggle them in from outside of the country? Would they manufacture it themselves? or would they do without?; If this scenario seems unrealistic, I'd admit it is, but I'd doubt you'd say most gangmembers are paragons of firearm ownership and maintenance, and thus the existing black-market supply would degrade with time if not replenished.

I think they'd make do with knives, most of them anyway, I see bigger groups (such as the cartels or mafia or high-profile bank robbers) perhaps having access to firearms, not your average street-thug, burglar, or crackhead though. Sure they could make guns, but why aren't they doing that on a large scale already in places like the UK, or Australia? I think smuggling guns across the border would put them in a price-range that would leave your average criminal out.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

A reply to Marlingrace, concerning the Oz gun laws, in the first full year since the ban, gun crime went up 40%, 40% of what I don't know, it was a short report in gun magazine I used to buy.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: NavyDoc

That's a false equivalency if I ever saw one, but I suppose you could be right in the case of illegal use of pharmaceuticals, the abuse of antibiotics, etc.

It's all got to do with supply and demand.

Drugs, mostly from the tropics or overseas, are generally quite cheap to manufacture, they sell for a high price, which outweighs the higher risk + cost of transportation, and makes them profitable.
The above is also why alcohol was so profitable during prohibition.

Guns, due to the legality of them in the US; through straw purchases, or theft, or legal over-the-counter purchase; are in high supply right now, there is less risk and challenge in acquiring a gun, one can be kept legally if the criminal in question hasn't been arrested, one can also be gotten without a background check.

So let's say; hypothetically; we make all civilian owned handguns in the US go "poof", and suddenly disappear from existence. Where would criminals get guns? Would they smuggle them in from outside of the country? Would they manufacture it themselves? or would they do without?; If this scenario seems unrealistic, I'd admit it is, but I'd doubt you'd say most gangmembers are paragons of firearm ownership and maintenance, and thus the existing black-market supply would degrade with time if not replenished.

I think they'd make do with knives, most of them anyway, I see bigger groups (such as the cartels or mafia or high-profile bank robbers) perhaps having access to firearms, not your average street-thug, burglar, or crackhead though. Sure they could make guns, but why aren't they doing that on a large scale already in places like the UK, or Australia? I think smuggling guns across the border would put them in a price-range that would leave your average criminal out.


Because your premise is false--that more laws equal less crime. If all guns went "poof" in the US tomorrow, they would flood in from our porous southern border like all of our narcotics and made in thousands of garage and basement shops like our pot. Unlike the UK and Australia, we have dozens of banana republics south of us that already supply the cartels with full auto AKs at a fraction of the price a semi-auto version can be bought legally here--right now.

If there was demand, IE the criminal element for guns, then that demand would be supplied for the criminals by criminals just like every other failed prohibition. All you do is make the law abiding defenseless and give the criminal element safe targets.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: mattsawaufo
a reply to: MarlinGrace

The murder rate in China is about 5 times lower per capita than in the USA.


What's the murder rate in Mexico? I hear guns are illegal there too. How's that working out for them?
edit on 9-9-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: mattsawaufo
a reply to: MarlinGrace
And the citizen wasn't trying to overthrow our form of government. As if our government never tries to kill people who try to overthrow it sarcastic eye roll.



The citizen was a college student standing there, unarmed, then laid down while the tank ran him over. Could you image with the insanity of the Michael Brown shooting without even knowing the circumstances what would happen in the US is they ran over a protesting citizen laying on the ground with a tank?

As far as the US government killing citizens for trying to overthrow it is something I have not witnessed. And of course seriously off topic. But being a free country run with if you want to. Sarcastic eye roll unnecessary.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: spirit_horse
Peace through superior firepower! It is amazing that criminals don't want to get hurt, shot, or killed. An unarmed populace are easy pickens. But, not knowing who is armed around the area can have a stabilizing effect. I read somewhere that the areas with the strongest gun control laws have the highest violent crime rate. It is lost on the anti-gunners for some reason.

I used to carry every day as my job required it. In 12 years I only needed it twice in defense of whatever was about to happen. When the would be robbers saw that .45 ACP they immediately turned around and went the other way. Not even a word from them. No one wants to get hurt, paralyzed, or killed. Even the criminals. I happen to live in Florida and we have changed from the 'Castle Doctrine' to the 'Stand your ground' law. When the stand your ground law passed, even as an ardent gun rights supporter, I thought it was going to be a bloodbath. Surprisingly it hasn't. People may hear the MSM make a bunch of hoopla over shootings and the law, but that is just blowing up the few times it was actually used.

The bottom line is the police are coming to draw out your chalk line and investigate. They can't save you or be there quick enough to save your family or even an innocent person nearby. I will tell of a personal event that changed my life. I had left my weapon on the couch while I was rushing out of the house to go to work. I realized it about 10 minutes later. I called my 6 month pregnant wife and had her go get it and put it away until I could get back around lunch to pick it up. Well, on the way to my house there were two police cruisers directly in front of me going about 30MPH, no light, no sirens. I was shocked when they pulled into my driveway. I got out and had my radio in hand and my backup Smith 9mm in its rear belt holster. They asked me if I was dispatched there too. I said "No why?" These morons said they had a 911 hangup call from the house. I ran into my house to find it literally trashed as there was a hell of a fight. Things smashed everywhere. As I made it to the kitchen I found my recently new wife that was 6 months pregnant laying unconscious and stripped on the floor. These scumbags had broke into the house and beat and raped her and in doing so broke her neck.

She was alive and not paralyzed fortunately, but she hemorrhaged with the baby. They had to do an emergency C section at the hospital and the doctors had told me and some of the officers they were going to try and save her life first and then the baby. I was way gone at that point over the deep end. She had put my .45 under her pillow. She also had a concealed carry permit and I had her trained by the same guy that trains the State police. However, she had got up and went to the bathroom. She said she heard our new puppy growling and barking and when she opened the bathroom door to see what he was barking at the two perps were in the hall and the fight was on. She was well trained to be around me, but eventually they overpowered her and they thought they had killed her. They fought from that hall bath all the way down the hall, through the living room, into the foyer where she tried to get out the front door, then back into the family room and finally into the kitchen where she lay. All this would have been moot if she had been in the bedroom where she had the .45. They were not armed with any firearms.

I was pissed at these moron cops not responding like it was a 911 emergency and instead taking a leisurely cruise. And I had to yell at them to call an ambulance as they were just standing there gawking. She made it as did my first baby girl. I am telling you people this to point out that if you think for one minute the police are going to be able to get there to prevent you from becoming a victim, you are dead wrong or delusional. You need to consider that when you argue for keeping people that are lawful citizens from getting and carrying their own weapons. No one should have to go through this. My job led me to many crime scenes and not one was prevented by the police. It was investigating the aftermath. I saw family after family completely in shambles. And when you look at the statistics and response times, you will see that the places with the strictest gun laws are invitations for criminals to come calling, like a grizzly to a fresh kill.

ETA: This happened in Jacksonville, FL. around Jan. 22nd-25th 1990 and was the front page story in the Florida Times Union. We lived in a very nice area of the town which is known as Mandarin. I don't know if it is online as then there wasn't the internet like today where everything is put online. But, it is in the microfilm in the library.



Incredible story.... Your experience, insights, and professional career will just fall on deaf eyes with the anti's here. They have an agenda, it isn't to save lives, or the safety of the citizenry it is purely to aid in government control over it's citizens.

If it was saving lives or safety of the citizens there is plenty of other places to start before you get to guns.



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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lol, you can’t compare drugs to guns. Firstly, people don’t buy guns everyday or even once a week, so the profits from the illegal gun trade would never be as lucrative and they’re for not worth the effort for you average citizen. Secondly, recreational drugs have many purposes, which rarely involve killing another human being. Automatic handguns on the other hand have very few purposes, except to kill a person. It’s apples and oranges.

Anyway, I can respect the passion people have to have the right. Fact is, if I was an American citizen my selfish side would probably take over and I’d most likely own firearms.

Being passionate about having the right to own and carry firearms is one thing. But to try and argue that it some how makes a society safer to have large amounts of citizens walking around with loaded high powered automatic weapons that have no other purpose but to kill people is a fallacy.



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