Pennsylvania mother who gave daughter abortion pill gets prison

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: intrepid
Can we give Roe vs Wade a rest for once?

Not for a minute.

Not for a nano second.

a reply to: Annee

So what you are saying is that your personal political agendas are more important than the safety of those that you are claiming to champion?

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Annee

Why? Really. Just why? Read the source. There WERE laws broken and a juvenile's life put at risk. Can we give Roe vs Wade a rest for once?

My position is, and will always be, until EVERY LIVING child in this world is fed, loved, educated, protected, etc ----- there needs to be FREE LOCAL access to birth control and abortion for every woman (teen) and man.

Problem #1 - Let's start with the issue of FORCED closings of women's health centers, abortion clinics, Family Planning centers.

If this mom/teen had LOCAL (free/low cost) access to what they needed ------ they would not have needed to look further.

a reply to: SirKonstantin

I agree with you. I wish many more people would have this type of understanding.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Annee

Why? Really. Just why? Read the source. There WERE laws broken and a juvenile's life put at risk. Can we give Roe vs Wade a rest for once?

My position is, and will always be, until EVERY LIVING child in this world is fed, loved, educated, protected, etc ----- there needs to be FREE LOCAL access to birth control and abortion for every woman (teen) and man.

Problem #1 - Let's start with the issue of FORCED closings of women's health centers, abortion clinics, Family Planning centers.

If this mom/teen had LOCAL (free/low cost) access to what they needed ------ they would not have needed to look further.

Or, given that she was both stupid enough and irresponsible enough to do what she did, that she might not have been bothered to drive 10 miles to a clinic, or 5, or take the bus across town.

This lady is no Rosa Parks here--she did a dangerous and irresponsible and criminal thing, no matter what side of the abortion debate one falls on.

originally posted by: Annee
If this mom/teen had LOCAL (free/low cost) access to what they needed ------ they would not have needed to look further.

BS. 74 miles is a short bus ride. But how much did it cost to get drugs from Europe? And THINK of this. How did she know it was what she ordered? You don't know what's coming by FedEx. That could have been rat poison in a fancy package for all we know. But OK, you agenda IS more important.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
I wont get into the - Right or wrong, concerning abortion, but I think sending the mother to jail is wrong!

Prisons are for bad people! This mother is not a bad person, misguided maybe, but she's not bad!

If she had waited until her grandchild was born, then "facilitated" the death of the unwanted baby, would you still.feel the same?

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Even at the expense of reasonable medical practices?

What are you saying? We don't have to give up one to have the other. We can have both, if the religious right would stop interfering!

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee
If this mom/teen had LOCAL (free/low cost) access to what they needed ------ they would not have needed to look further.

BS. 74 miles is a short bus ride. But how much did it cost to get drugs from Europe? And THINK of this. How did she know it was what she ordered? You don't know what's coming by FedEx. That could have been rat poison in a fancy package for all we know. But OK, you agenda IS more important.

How many more excuses can you come up with?

If this teen died --- I hold the Christian Right solely responsible.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Or, given that she was both stupid enough and irresponsible enough to do what she did, that she might not have been bothered to drive 10 miles to a clinic, or 5, or take the bus across town.

You clearly don't know the details of the story.

a reply to: intrepid

I can agree that she should be prosecuted for child endangerment but it was the state that brought in the abortion aspects of this case and then used an obsurd similar case for precedent.
That's the part that bugs me about this story, it almost seems they went out of their way to make a public service announcement of the whole thing.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
I have no religion, first of all. B), I'm all for people having the right to do what they will with their body. Ingest what you will, if you want. But murdering your baby because your "poor" or a "drug addict" is utterly disingenuous and psychotic. Most poor people take better care of their children better than most other people that I've ever encountered and that's the truth, so I don't understand this notion of being poor giving you the right to murder another human being. It's a lot more than a "gathering of cells" or a "fetus that has no soul". It is a human being unfairly being murdered against their will. Would you like it if somebody killed you because they don't want the responsibility? It wouldn't be fair, would it? Foster care would be the only choice, IMO. At least that way, the person has a right to their life. Can you imagine how many genius', future important people, curer of diseases, inventor of something profound, great musicians, great movie makers, etc., so-on-and-so-forth-infinity ---have been murdered by psychopaths who want to kill their children because it will cramp their style? Selfish people. It's no different then what women like Casey Anthony, Marybeth Tinning, Susan Dianne Eubanks, Andrea Yates. The only difference between these killers and woman who have abortions is that women who get abortions kill them sooner, rather than later.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee
If this mom/teen had LOCAL (free/low cost) access to what they needed ------ they would not have needed to look further.

BS. 74 miles is a short bus ride. But how much did it cost to get drugs from Europe? And THINK of this. How did she know it was what she ordered? You don't know what's coming by FedEx. That could have been rat poison in a fancy package for all we know. But OK, you agenda IS more important.

How many more excuses can you come up with?

If this teen died --- I hold the Christian Right solely responsible.

No excuses. Responsibility. The mother had other options. She opted for easy. Online crap. If you hold the right responsible for that, you are no better. Agenda driven. Unimpressive imo when it comes to girls lives.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Or, given that she was both stupid enough and irresponsible enough to do what she did, that she might not have been bothered to drive 10 miles to a clinic, or 5, or take the bus across town.

You clearly don't know the details of the story.

Of course I do. An un-medical person ordered a dangerous at best (and unknown at worse) drug over the internet and gave it to her underage daughter without any medical training, knowledge, facilities, or supervision. THAT is the fact of the matter. The martyr aspect is hyperbole and an emotional response based on supposition--not a fact.

You say she did it because she was forced to by the evil right wing and was a poor, impoverished victim, but that is just an assumption on your part. It is just as possible that she did what she did because she was lazy or didn't want to spend her cigarette money on gas or was just an idiot--those are also possible assumptions as well.

So what we should deal with is facts--she gave a potentially deadly substance to her minor child.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee
If this mom/teen had LOCAL (free/low cost) access to what they needed ------ they would not have needed to look further.

BS. 74 miles is a short bus ride. But how much did it cost to get drugs from Europe? And THINK of this. How did she know it was what she ordered? You don't know what's coming by FedEx. That could have been rat poison in a fancy package for all we know. But OK, you agenda IS more important.

How many more excuses can you come up with?

If this teen died --- I hold the Christian Right solely responsible.

No excuses. Responsibility. The mother had other options. She opted for easy. Online crap. If you hold the right responsible for that, you are no better. Agenda driven. Unimpressive imo when it comes to girls lives.

Just more excuses from you.

EVERY town/city/Podunk needs at bare minimum a Family Planning (or equivalent) clinic or at least an administration office that can make arrangements and have volunteer drivers.

There is zero excuse for having to drive 74 mikes.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee
If this mom/teen had LOCAL (free/low cost) access to what they needed ------ they would not have needed to look further.

BS. 74 miles is a short bus ride. But how much did it cost to get drugs from Europe? And THINK of this. How did she know it was what she ordered? You don't know what's coming by FedEx. That could have been rat poison in a fancy package for all we know. But OK, you agenda IS more important.

How many more excuses can you come up with?

If this teen died --- I hold the Christian Right solely responsible.

And not the mother that gave her some chemical she ordered over the internet? Seriously? What a way to avoid personal responsibility in life.

In the future, please break up your posts into paragraphs. It is easier to read as well as easier to break down your points to refute. I went ahead and split them up.

originally posted by: Fylgje
a reply to: Krazysh0t
I have no religion, first of all. B), I'm all for people having the right to do what they will with their body. Ingest what you will, if you want. But murdering your baby because your "poor" or a "drug addict" is utterly disingenuous and psychotic.

Well that is the decision of the mother of the unborn child (fetus). If that makes her a terrible person, then so be it, but that is a burden that SHE (and maybe the father) have to wrestle with. It certainly isn't YOUR responsibility to pass judgment on them.

Most poor people take better care of their children better than most other people that I've ever encountered and that's the truth, so I don't understand this notion of being poor giving you the right to murder another human being.

First, that is anecdotal evidence so it isn't proof of anything. Second, being poor isn't what gives them the right to have an abortion. The fact that they'd do it anyways regardless of legality is what gives them the right to do so. The reason it is legal is to provide a safe environment for the people who choose to have this procedure done.

It's a lot more than a "gathering of cells" or a "fetus that has no soul". It is a human being unfairly being murdered against their will. Would you like it if somebody killed you because they don't want the responsibility? It wouldn't be fair, would it?

You are comparing two different things. If I was aborted, I wouldn't have cared one way or the other because I hadn't yet developed the cognitive faculties to determine if that was a bad thing. You are trying to have me look back as a rational adult and say that since I wouldn't want to be murdered (as a fully grown human being), then I wouldn't want to be murdered as a fetus, when the reality is that I wouldn't have been able to even care one way or the other.

Foster care would be the only choice, IMO. At least that way, the person has a right to their life. Can you imagine how many genius', future important people, curer of diseases, inventor of something profound, great musicians, great movie makers, etc., so-on-and-so-forth-infinity ---have been murdered by psychopaths who want to kill their children because it will cramp their style?

The foster system is currently overwhelmed with unwanted children. If every abortion became a foster case then the system would crash on itself. That is reality.

As for your other point, that is a bad analogy. How many genius', future important people, curer of diseases, inventor of something profound, great musicians, great movie makers, etc would the couples who aborted a baby(ies) have been murdered by using a condom? It's stupid to look at what might have been as a reason not to do something. That is called fear of the unknown and it is a bad reason to cause hesitation.

Selfish people. It's no different then what women like Casey Anthony, Marybeth Tinning, Susan Dianne Eubanks, Andrea Yates. The only difference between these killers and woman who have abortions is that women who get abortions kill them sooner, rather than later.

No the difference is that those are fully developed babies that have exited the womb with feelings, emotions, intelligence, and other cognitive functions. A fetus is just a group of cells that happens to be alive. I bet if I showed you a bunch of pictures of various fetus' from different animals, you wouldn't even be able to pick out which one was a human.

a reply to: Annee

OK. Let's break this down. Are you a parent? That will make this easier for me to explain to you.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee
If this mom/teen had LOCAL (free/low cost) access to what they needed ------ they would not have needed to look further.

BS. 74 miles is a short bus ride. But how much did it cost to get drugs from Europe? And THINK of this. How did she know it was what she ordered? You don't know what's coming by FedEx. That could have been rat poison in a fancy package for all we know. But OK, you agenda IS more important.

I rent a shop that is 75 miles from my new home. It takes me 1hr 45 minutes each way to drive there, and it costs me around $35 in gas. That's not a short bus ride. Not to mention that these two would have to make this trip at least 3, maybe 4 separate times; once for initial visit, a trip for counseling and the wait period, a trip to be given the pill and trip for the followup visit.

These laws, that are shutting the doors of neighborhood clinics, are not being done in the spirit safe and affordable abortions. They're being enacted to make access to abortion more and more complicated and expensive.

This woman did everything she could to make sure her child had medical care and supervision. She took her daughter to the ER when the drug started to kick in. Locking this mother up is the real crime, imo.

originally posted by: windword
These laws, that are shutting the doors of neighborhood clinics, are not being done in the spirit safe and affordable abortions. They're being enacted to make access to abortion more and more complicated and expensive.

This woman did everything she could to make sure her child had medical care and supervision. She took her daughter to the ER when the drug started to kick in. Locking this mother up is the real crime, imo.

Safe? Unregulated, unknown substances are safe?